Not enough non catholic here

[waterbrook]

As you can see I’m Anglican. I spend quite a lot of time here now and then because I’m interested in Catholicism and know quite a lot about the faith and have periods when I wonder about joining the church. However, I do tend to disappear every now and then as well. why do I disappear? because there are certain things said here that really frustrate and annoy me. Firstly too many posters lump together all Protestants and assume that all these ‘Protestants’ have the same beliefs and practices. Secondly, although I understand why many posters do so, I feel annoyed when some posters seem unable to take responsibility for making their own decisions, so best to keep away rather than respond inappropriately. Thirdly, I sometimes have a clear idea of what the church teaches on a subject but don’t actually post a lot because it doesn’t always seem right to respond on some issues not being a catholic…may be some other non Catholics also share some of these feelings and so may not appear to be here on the forum. But the fact that I come here says an awful lot about the value of this forum.

 

[crimsonglory]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

I think you’re incorrect in your supposition…and actually i find your remark ‘mildly’ insulting.

I think it’s healthy for ALL Christians (protestants, and Catholics alike) to examine their beliefs. It gives opportunity to re-affirm their beliefs and for faith to grow. Afterall God does increase our trust - through ‘testing’.

I think, as much as some might not like to acknowledge it; There are some protestants which are strong in their convictions and simply do not desire to host such discussions - because to them, it has no credibility.

I, myself am on this site because I am open to learning…and am attempting to do so.
I’m a mature Christian, but I always invite the opportunity for God to test me (because I believe it’s a healthy thing)

 

[guanophore]

As you can see I’m Anglican. I spend quite a lot of time here now and then because I’m interested in Catholicism and know quite a lot about the faith and have periods when I wonder about joining the church. However, I do tend to disappear every now and then as well. why do I disappear? because there are certain things said here that really frustrate and annoy me. Firstly too many posters lump together all Protestants and assume that all these ‘Protestants’ have the same beliefs and practices. Secondly, although I understand why many posters do so, I feel annoyed when some posters seem unable to take responsibility for making their own decisions, so best to keep away rather than respond inappropriately. Thirdly, I sometimes have a clear idea of what the church teaches on a subject but don’t actually post a lot because it doesn’t always seem right to respond on some issues not being a catholic…may be some other non Catholics also share some of these feelings and so may not appear to be here on the forum. But the fact that I come here says an awful lot about the value of this forum.

It is perfectly “right” for you to respond to anything you are moved to write about waterbrook. You can certainly articulate the Catholic faith, whether you agree with it, or not. Many of us here are also trying to learn how to accurately describe the theologies of our separated brethren. We all learn together.

 

[atheistgirl]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

Well, if they started telling you why you as a Catholic were wrong, they’d get banned, because that’s proselytizing and that’s not allowed.

I would also imagine a lot of non Catholics are not too interested in a Catholic forum. I’m on some other religious fora, and they’ve next to no interest in anything Catholic, so quite why you think the place here should be full of them, I don’t know.

As an atheist, I don’t tend to hang out here. I like the apologetics section, and the family section, which is where I think most of my posts are.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

Lol.

I doubt it.



Sarah x

 

[guanophore]

Well, if they started telling you why you as a Catholic were wrong, they’d get banned, because that’s proselytizing and that’s not allowed.

No it is not proselytizing. Proselytizing is trying to convert people, or specifically, trying to get Catholics away from the Church.

People tell us we are wrong all the time.

It is just not a very productive way to have a discussion, though. I was just telling this to a Catholic member who was telling a Protestant “if you disagree with the Church you are wrong”. Once you take that stance, any useful interaction is pretty well cut off.

I would also imagine a lot of non Catholics are not too interested in a Catholic forum. I’m on some other religious fora, and they’ve next to no interest in anything Catholic, so quite why you think the place here should be full of them, I don’t know.

A couple years ago we had a lot more vigorous activity from evangelicals wanting to engage in lively debate. The trend seems to have slacked.

 

[PRmerger]

A couple years ago we had a lot more vigorous activity from evangelicals wanting to engage in lively debate. The trend seems to have slacked.

My guess: they are now in RCIA.

At least, the thoughtful ones who were actually here with the intention of having fruitful dialogue.

And those who were open to seeking the Truth, wherever it led.

 

[atheistgirl]

No it is not proselytizing. Proselytizing is trying to convert people, or specifically, trying to get Catholics away from the Church.

People tell us we are wrong all the time.

It is just not a very productive way to have a discussion, though. I was just telling this to a Catholic member who was telling a Protestant “if you disagree with the Church you are wrong”. Once you take that stance, any useful interaction is pretty well cut off.

It’s a fine line.

I walk it every time I come here

So many times I just bite my tongue or drop out of the conversation, because I can see, if I keep pressing my point, or elaborate further, someone, for sure, will report me for proselytizing

I does detract from the otherwise good experience of using this forum.

To it’s credit, it’s not nearly as volatile as the forum I was banned from for defending Catholics when the accusation was made they worship statues

I’m quite proud to be the only atheist every accused of being ‘‘a Papist’’ (as far as I know )

Your and I disagreeing and discussing, is another’s proselytizing. I’ve been accused of it several times by posters here, for just asking a question

Another reason I think the apologetics forum is quite good. Such conversations are part of the whole thrust of apologetics, and you’re less likely to be accused of trying to proselytize.

Sarah x

 

[ziano]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

I would be very interested in at least conversing about our doctrines and such and see where it is we agree and disagee and why.

 

[PRmerger]

I would be very interested in at least conversing about our doctrines and such and see where it is we agree and disagee and why.

Welcome to the CAFs, ziano!

Is there some particular teaching within Catholicism that you find puzzling? Or that you find just plain wrong? Or unnecessary?

 

[atheistgirl]

No it is not proselytizing. Proselytizing is trying to convert people, or specifically, trying to get Catholics away from the Church.

People tell us we are wrong all the time.

Some Catholics and people of other faith don’t know the definition of proselytizing though

As soon as you question them about anything, they sling out such accusations. It’s almost like you’re just supposed to listen to them, nod, accept what they say is true, and convert.

Perish the thought you’d dare dispute anything with them as that is an affront to their faith, and you must be the spawn of the devil trying to take them away from the path of righteousness for even asking a question

Perhaps that’s why there’s not so many non catholics here?

I don’t know.

But maybe a percentage got fed up with such false accusations?

Sarah x

 

[ziano]

Welcome to the CAFs, ziano!

Is there some particular teaching within Catholicism that you find puzzling? Or that you find just plain wrong? Or unnecessary?

Thanks! Well, that’s a really tall tree to climb tonight so I’ll just sufice it to say that although I believe and understand much of what Catholicism teaches; there is no reasonable way that I could ever see myself as being a Catholic.

 

[PRmerger]

Thanks! Well, that’s a really tall tree to climb tonight so I’ll just sufice it to say that although I believe and understand much of what Catholicism teaches; there is no reasonable way that I could ever see myself as being a Catholic.

Ah, very good then.

I think you will learn much from being here–lurking, or posting, either way:

 

[JRKH]

Ah, very good then.

I think you will learn much from being here–lurking, or posting, either way:

Ain’t it the truth - ain’t it the truth…he says in his best “cowardly lion” voice
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4973418236019716&pid=15.1

I have learned so much here - and I was raised Catholic…

Peace
James

 

[dzheremi]

I know it is not addressed in the OP (and my apologies if it is covered in subsequent posts; I haven’t read all 7 pages of the thread), but it is worth noting that many non-Catholics who are not Protestant have been banned over the years, greatly diminishing the number of Orthodox Christians, non-Christians, Atheists, etc. So I don’t think it’s really fair to pin it on a lack of knowledge or debate skills (though I personally find myself less and less interested in debate as the years go by) on the part of non-Catholics, or for that matter to pin such attributes on Protestants specifically.

 

[PRmerger]

Ain’t it the truth - ain’t it the truth…he says in his best “cowardly lion” voice
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4973418236019716&pid=15.1

I have learned so much here - and I was raised Catholic…

Peace
James

 

[Reuben_J]

I guess everyone has their grievances about the limitation of the scope on what can be done and what cannot here. These include both Catholics and non-Catholics alike and not targeting into specific group. The reason for the banning is when what one does is against the Forum’s rule.

We all have our sensitive spots and nerve can be touched very easily here. I find that stifle candid discussion but what to do if posters are unable to stomach them? Just recently, a thread was closed because some posters protested about the OP’s provocative original post. I thought we should allow that and even if she was wrong, then go ahead and tell her so and why it is so. Some Catholics are sensitive lots but so are the Orthodox. That can lead to harsh language being used and in the heat of the moment, can lead to them being banned.

 

[JRKH]

I know it is not addressed in the OP (and my apologies if it is covered in subsequent posts; I haven’t read all 7 pages of the thread), but it is worth noting that many non-Catholics who are not Protestant have been banned over the years, greatly diminishing the number of Orthodox Christians, non-Christians, Atheists, etc. So I don’t think it’s really fair to pin it on a lack of knowledge or debate skills (though I personally find myself less and less interested in debate as the years go by) on the part of non-Catholics, or for that matter to pin such attributes on Protestants specifically.

I cannot speak to the issue of banning as I am not involved with those sorts of things.

but I do agree with your comment about not blaming it on lack of knowledge, or debating skills etc…
In truth I think there is a wide range of reasons that there aren’t more “non-catholics” (of all stripes) here and that most of them have been covered in this thread.
Some come and ask their questions and then go away…(perhaps the biggest number)
Some come and obnoxiously attack - and are quickly banned
Some come with the idea (perhaps gained in street evangelization) that Catholics cannot debate with them and find themselves quickly overwhelmed (this is a very active board as you know).
There are probably other reasons but these three are perhaps the more common ones.

And I think that there is another aspect - one that I have seen with both new non-catholic posters and catholic ones. They ask a question and get some uncharitable reply (intended or not) and never post again.
You see…with a board as heavily populated and busy as this one is, we have all kinds of temperaments, levels of knowledge, skill at expressing etc…and frankly sometime the new person is very “thin skinned” and easily insulted…Not saying that it happens a lot, but I have seen it happen more than twice…

So - anyway…there are many reasons for why non-catholics choose not to come or not to stay.

Peace
James

 

[PRmerger]

I cannot speak to the issue of banning as I am not involved with those sorts of things.

but I do agree with your comment about not blaming it on lack of knowledge, or debating skills etc…
In truth I think there is a wide range of reasons that there aren’t more “non-catholics” (of all stripes) here and that most of them have been covered in this thread.
Some come and ask their questions and then go away…(perhaps the biggest number)
Some come and obnoxiously attack - and are quickly banned
Some come with the idea (perhaps gained in street evangelization) that Catholics cannot debate with them and find themselves quickly overwhelmed (this is a very active board as you know).
There are probably other reasons but these three are perhaps the more common ones.

And I think that there is another aspect - one that I have seen with both new non-catholic posters and catholic ones. They ask a question and get some uncharitable reply (intended or not) and never post again.
You see…with a board as heavily populated and busy as this one is, we have all kinds of temperaments, levels of knowledge, skill at expressing etc…and frankly sometime the new person is very “thin skinned” and easily insulted…Not saying that it happens a lot, but I have seen it happen more than twice…

So - anyway…there are many reasons for why non-catholics choose not to come or not to stay.

Peace
James

Excellent summary.

One other thing I might add:

Some come, toe the line with what’s permissible as far as forum rules, receive a warning from the mods, and leave after a warning, smarting from the fraternal correction. Their pride does not allow them to be corrected.

 

[atheistgirl]

And I think that there is another aspect - one that I have seen with both new non-catholic posters and catholic ones. They ask a question and get some uncharitable reply (intended or not) and never post again.

This is another very good observation I think.

I think it’s fair to say that apologetics isn’t for everyone

There are definitely those called to it, and it’s very obvious from the way such posters interact with others across the board, whether it’s in a light hearted conversation, or debating a very serious point, they exude knowledge but are awash with charity, concern, friendliness and just give off the vibe that whether you agree with them or not, they’re someone you just really enjoy engaging with and conversing with.

I think this is a key quality. They’re the sort of people you *want *to talk to.

Then there’s the others who quite fancy themselves as apologists, but really, while they might be knowledgeable about their faith, they just don’t have the people skills

I’ve read numerous replies to people on here where it’s easy to see why the receiver would take umbrage and perhaps, like you say, just not bother anymore.

Rightly or wrongly, they’ll have walked away with the impression they’re not welcome here, and perhaps in their own minds, have any or all of their preconceived ideas about Catholics and the Catholic faith confirmed.

Me, I’m thick skinned

And I use the ignore function to great effect

Because of the wealth of *truly *great Catholic posters, from whom there is a great amount of enjoyment and education to be had from interacting with them here, I would strongly recommend to any non Catholic not to give up on the Forum, rather just use the ignore function judiciously

Sarah x

 

[guanophore]

It’s a fine line.

I walk it every time I come here

Is it really? I have never had an atheist try to convert me. Is it generally the desire of atheists to pursuade others into atheism? Or are you an exception?

So many times I just bite my tongue or drop out of the conversation, because I can see, if I keep pressing my point, or elaborate further, someone, for sure, will report me for proselytizing

It sounds like you are pretty confident in your ability to draw Catholics away from their faith.

I does detract from the otherwise good experience of using this forum.

Would you consider your experience better if you could pursuade more Catholics to abandon the faith?

To it’s credit, it’s not nearly as volatile as the forum I was banned from for defending Catholics when the accusation was made they worship statues

Yeah, I think I got banned from that one too.

I’m quite proud to be the only atheist every accused of being ‘‘a Papist’’ (as far as I know )

Seems like an odd pride to have…

Your and I disagreeing and discussing, is another’s proselytizing. I’ve been accused of it several times by posters here, for just asking a question

I think some certain tough questions can be difficult for those weak in their faith.

Another reason I think the apologetics forum is quite good. Such conversations are part of the whole thrust of apologetics, and you’re less likely to be accused of trying to proselytize.

I am curious what it is exactly one might be invited to join as a result of your pursuasion.Most of my experience of being proselytized here comes from evangelicals, and it is clear what they want me to believe. I don’t have expereince that way with atheists. Maybe that is because I generally avoid them.