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Lycorth
Guest
Because, apparently, kneeling is for squares and it’s way cooler to stand there and wait for your cracker. God will understand because we say that He should.
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Layman
Guest
Actually, my post was ironic. I always find it useful to reverse a proposition to see how it sounds.Because we are not islands unto ourselves. Selfish individualism may prompt people to say things like that, but those of us who actually care about the direction the Church is going know that, per the Cain and Abel story, we are our brothers’ keepers. We’re responsible, in a very definite way, for each other. In an ideal Catholic society, we all try to help each other grow in faith and love for the Lord, not just worry about Number One and get snippy when others point out what might be problems we need to address.
No, it wasn’t, and no it isn’t. The Church permitted CITH but not because it was “better” than kneeling. Read post #2 on this thread; the Church doesn’t even want CITH to supplant COTT, so how could the Church think that CITH is “better”?
In what way? You must live under a pretty big rock to not see how bad Western culture has become since the 1940s. Unless you think that a more vulgar, sexually shameless, secularized culture where abortion and contraception are accepted as norms and the Church is marginalized out of social life is a good thing…
What problems? Being too reverent? Insisting on certain behaviors to help ensure reverent behavior? Yeah, serious problems
I think modernists need to step back and take a look at how the ancient Israelites treated the tabernacle, how they guarded it and veiled it and revered it and didn’t just let anyone waltz up to it for whatever reason - because they knew God was present. Compare that with how religious life is treated by Catholics today, how casually our churches are regarded, how little reverence is shown to the Blessed Sacrament.
Consider how far we’ve fallen. Little wonder this is an age wherein no saints are made.
I was waiting to see if any CITH fans could find reasons that CITH should supplant COTT. Why introduce it?
- CITH was approved because it’s better than the old way.
- The changes to our religion since the 1940’s are helping us become more holy as individuals, families, communities and nations.
- The old rite had serious problems that the new rite corrected. Because these were serious problems, serious changes were made.
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momor
Guest
I can see by your sarcasm that I have made you irritated. Not my intention.
I would appreciate an explanation for why you don’t feel it is necessary to kneel the entire time you are before the Blessed Sacrament in the adoration chapel.
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Lycorth
Guest
Haha, my apologies, then; I’m too much of a square sometimes to notice humor when I see it
Illustrating foolishness by being foolish is a fun and useful tactic. Hopefully, modernists will see what you mean by all that and see just what it is they’re supporting.
No, you didn’t irritate me - my sarcasm was just to emphasize what seems to be modernist opinion on kneeling for the Eucharist.
I kneel whenever the tabernacle is open, even though I have a spinal curvature issue that renders my left thigh numb after too much time in a single position. A little numbness is nothing but reverence for the Lord is everything.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Don’t we all kneel before the Eucharist, from the moment of its conception during the Eucharistic prayer? Doesn’t that count as time we spend adoring the Eucharist from our seats? 
If it is not OK to stand for Communion, what about standing on the way to and from Communion? 
We break the respectful silent adoration of kneeling, get up and bang around in the pew and make noise and receive Communion. Then we make way back to our seats, sometimes dropping the kneeler with a sound. All that is more disruptive than CITH recipients, is it not?
Alan
If it is not OK to stand for Communion, what about standing on the way to and from Communion? We break the respectful silent adoration of kneeling, get up and bang around in the pew and make noise and receive Communion. Then we make way back to our seats, sometimes dropping the kneeler with a sound. All that is more disruptive than CITH recipients, is it not?Alan
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momor
Guest
So are you saying if you spend an hour in Eucharistic adoration you kneel for 1 hour or are you saying that you stay for only as long as you can kneel?
What about people with no physical disability - should they kneel the entire time?
If a man wears a suit to Mass on Sunday, should he also wear a suit to adoration?
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Layman
Guest
Ah, arguing by exaggeration. Bad form.
Weren’t we talking about CITH, anyway?
Come on: Who will tell us what are the spiritual benefits to be gained from changing a Roman Catholic diocese, which has practiced COTT for a thousand years, over to CITH?
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momor
Guest
This is very much related to the topic of CITH.
If you think I’m exaggerating then ask yourself if you think it’s OK to behave differently during adoration than during communion. Isn’t kneeling to show proper respect for Christ during communion just as necessary during adoration? Is it not the same Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity you are adoring? Is Christ not physically present?
Do any of you visit the adoration chapel in your everyday clothes between your visit to the dry cleaners and the grocery store or on your way home from the hardware store, or just because you happen to be passing by and have a few minutes to spend with Our Lord? If so, why do you think it’s OK to just drop in in whatever state you are in when you would not do that on Sunday?
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Lycorth
Guest
As long as I can manage, though I haven’t had the opportunity to go to Adoration lately.
For me, thankfully, I can manage pretty long.
As far as I am concerned, they should; if the Lord is exposed, one should kneel. One should crawl (to paraphrase Cardinal Arinze).
Of course. Dress as nicely as you can to greet the highest Dignitary in the universe.
If I lived in the same town as my church, and Adoration was going on, and I happened to be just getting done with some errands, I’d go home and put some nice clothes on and then go to church.
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momor
Guest
OK. Thanks for your reply.
I ask the same questions of any others on this thread. Do you act and dress differently during adoration (I’m particularly thinking of daily adoration chapels) than during Sunday communion? If so, please explain why. Thanks.
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ProVobis
Guest
I don’t think anyone accused Paul VI of acting in bad faith.
But let’s look back at all the misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and confusion arising from all the documents and other teachings of the Church in the 60’s:
Friday penance and fasting
What constitutes mortal sin
Use of vernacular in the liturgy
The “many” vs “all” and other mistranslations in the liturgy (finally being corrected)
Definition of the Mass (the word “sacrifice” doesn’t appear in the first edition of the N.O.)
Removal of communion rails (there were no Vatican instructions to do this)
Standing to receive (where was the document on that?)
Even the use of one’s “conscience” in using birth control (Progressio Populorum #37)
So is it surprising when the Vatican issued its rulings on communion in the hand with the strict conditions for it were ignored or undermined severely? Seems to be if anyone took those conditions seriously, they wouldn’t be even thinking CITH anymore.
youtube.com/watch?v=BiUqDa_Gzj0
Just saying.
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ProVobis
Guest
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
How lowly are we supposed to act? At some point, does it go beyond humility and is it really pleasing to God for us to have a spirit of self-deprecation?
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momor
Guest
So are you saying you go to adoration? If so, do you kneel the entire time?Communion in the hand would be interesting there.
But I agree with the Cardinal.
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ProVobis
Guest
As much as I can. I don’t see the purpose of just sitting there but that’s me.
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momor
Guest
OK. Thanks. But do you think sitting at adoration is irreverent or just purposeless?
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ProVobis
Guest
I guess that depends on how badly you wish to receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord, if I’m reading Cardinal Arinze correctly.
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ProVobis
Guest
It’s not irreverent but sitting doesn’t take any effort so how purposeful is that? Am I missing something?
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Layman
Guest
Errr… well, in Adoration in my local church some kneel, some lay face down, I heard one lady quietly sobbing …
And some sit. Like me, when my knees need a break.
You do the best you can.
At Communion, CITH ain’t it.
And some sit. Like me, when my knees need a break.
You do the best you can.
At Communion, CITH ain’t it.
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momor
Guest
My point is just to get people to think critically about what they are saying. If you think it is irreverent not to kneel for communion then why is it OK to sit before the Blessed Sacrament in adoration? I happen to think this is inconsistent. It is the same Christ, worthy of the same reverence, in both settings.It’s not irreverent but sitting doesn’t take any effort so how purposeful is that? Am I missing something?
I happen to agree that sitting while in adoration is not irreverent. But I also think that standing to receive CITH is not irreverent either. I believe that reverence comes from the interior heart and mind and not from an exterior action. Jesus told us as much when he chastised the Pharisees for burdening people with all of their pious do’s and don’ts of law while their hearts were far from God. It is just as possible for a person to kneel and receive COTT in an unworthy manner as someone standing for CITH. The onus is on the individual to present himself worthily for communion and not for others to judge him by the particular manner in which he does this.
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