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PRmerger
Guest
And yet our Holy Father called Jews our “elder brothers in the faith”.
Clearly, the Vicar of Christ believes that Jews and Christians share a common patrimony.
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Clearly, the Vicar of Christ believes that Jews and Christians share a common patrimony.
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PRmerger
Guest
I suppose a parallel could be made between a boyfriend and girlfriend who have a wonderful but platonic relationship. When a married couples speaks of the wonders of the covenant of marriage they respond, “Our relationship is just fine and we see no NEED for that.”
You see, though, how they are missing the most sublime and magnificent elevation of a platonic relationship: the marital embrace.
Similarly, Protestants may have a righteous but PLATONIC relationship with God, and even though they see no NEED for an elevation of their relationship to include the One Flesh Union, like the platonic couple, they simply don’t know what they’re missing. :sad_yes:
I
illusion_buster
Guest
AMEN!!
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illusion_buster
Guest
On reflection:- not all can handle rich food. Some (because of upbringing or culture) survive better on a bland diet. Love God, Love thy neighbour. Remember…these were Jesus’ only commandments. (Rules to live by)
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Mickey
Guest
The Sacred Scriptures also tell us that: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
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PRmerger
Guest
Let’s take the relationship metaphor, which is actually more appropriate (and Biblical), rather than a culinary metaphor.
Imagine a couple that has a “bland” relationship, vs a couple that has a covenantal one.
Who do you think is going to be closer to each other?
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PRmerger
Guest
Catholics respond with a hearty
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PRmerger
Guest
Catholics give a
to this verse!
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Mickey
Guest
But it is not the Trinitarian God…hence they are worshipping a god other than the God of the Christians.
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Portrait
Guest
Dear Mickey,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.
Incontrovertibly, there are serious and insurrmountable obstacles to any effective dialogue with Islam, for Muslims reject the Holy Trinity and thus many other core tenets of Christian orthodoxy, chief among them being the Divinity of our Blessed Saviour. The Catholic Church does recognise these fundamental issues, but does, notwithstanding, believe that the plan of salvation includes all who acknowldege the Creator. *The Catechism of the Catholic *Church says that Muslims “…together with us…adore the one merciful God, mankinds judge on the last day” (para. 841, quoting Lumen Gentium, 16). The Church is, my dear friend, only seeking to be affirmative and to look for points of contact with Islam where that is possible, but by no means approving of its false doctrines.
With Judaism and Christianity, Islam is one of the three great monotheisitc religions of the world, all in way or another looking to Abraham as the founder of their faith. Islam is not only a Western, theistic religion rather than an Oriental, pantheistic religion, but is based explicitly upon the historical revelation of the God of the Jews (another point of contact), tracing itself to Ishmael, to whom also God promised special blessings, according to Genesis. All if this surely admits of no doubt. Another point of contact with the Christian religion is that Islam believes in a single, all-just, all-perfect, all-powerful God who created the world and man, insists on obedience to His will and promises salvation and immortality to those who believe and obey. In all these ways Islam is like Judaism and Christianity rather than like Hinduism and Buddhism. From the will of Allah come both the existence of the world by creation and rule over it, over nature and history by providence and over human free will by moral law.
Whilst I acknowldege, my dear friend, that Muslims reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, I do not think it follows that they worship “a god other than the God of Christians”. In the final analysis it does not really matter what sort of god that they think that they are worship, because it cannot alter the fact that in reality they do worship the the Triune God, even if they refuse to acknowledge it. Moreover, they do worship the Triune God because the God of the O.T. has always existed as “God in three persons, Blessed Trinity”. Their disbelief in this doctrine can never change that immutable truth and so you could say that they are worshiping the Trinity whether they like it or not, because their religion bases itself on the historical revelation of the God of the Jews, who is also the Triune God of Chrsitianity.
Hope that has made some sort of sense, Mickey, and that you can follow my line of reasoning, old chap.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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Mickey
Guest
Christ is the Creator. They do not acknowledge Christ.
The CCC and LG is very misleading and ambiguous in it’s language and it causes confusion for many tradional Catholics. It is a statement which attempts to foster ecumenism.
I understand the argument my friend. But they do not acknowledge the Triune God. The God of Abraham is the Triune God. Therefore, they are not worshipping the Triune God.
I think it follows perfectly. "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father."
It surely does matter. If you willfully and knowingly reject the Triune God…you are not worshipping the Triune God. The Lord gave us free will.
And they reject the Triune God…so they are not worshipping the God of Abraham.
I think that is wrong.
Yes, my friend. I follow your line of reasoning…and with all due respect…I reject it. It has been proposed many times by Catholics here… and rejected many times by Catholics here. I will never agree with this line of reasoning because you are stripping away free will.
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PRmerger
Guest
No. They just don’t have the fullness of Truth in their theology of God.
Just like Christians who deny Sacred Tradition and what it proclaims about Christ and His Church are not worshipping a different Christ. They are simply lacking the fullness of Truth in their Christology.
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rinnie
Guest
What does this scripture have to do with the God of Abraham being a false God? If anything it confirms that the God of Abraham is indeed the ONE TRUE GOD,Read what Jesus said IF YOU ARE the CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM do the works of Abraham.
So what Jesus said to them we should ALL take note.
How many Christians, I will even go as far as CATHOLIC’S say they are children of Christ.
But then turn around and disobey the teachings of the Catholic CHurch. Does it make Christ a liar when people refuse to obey his commandments.
How many go to church every sunday and the one true god they really have is the Almighty dollar? Who do you know trust their bank account more then God?
How many get divorced anyway. ANd leave the Church.
How many kill, steal. especially now, tax time, maybe fudge them taxes a little
How many say they believe the ten commadments but miss Church every single sunday.
I could go on and on.
Because we say we are Children of Jesus are we? What are our works? Many ARE good children of God, I know this, But how many claim to be? Does it make the Jesus Christ of the CC false because of the people who claim they are Catholic?
I do not know how many Muslims truly obey the ONE GOD the God of Abraham, I do not know how many Jews do, Or Catholic’s for that part.
But for the ones that do, they indeed obey the ONE GOD. I sure Hope God does not judge us by the sin of others. I sure hope those who have fallen away from the ONE TRUE GOD in the Church does not try to make the ONE TRUE GOD false in our Church.
This is why this reasoning makes no sense to me. I try to see what you guys are saying and I continue to miss it.
Maybe the Pope is wrong, and I am wrong and all of you are right. I sure cannot see how the bad in a faith can make the true God the God of Abraham false.
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Mickey
Guest
If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do.
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PRmerger
Guest
Catholics say amen! to this!
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rinnie
Guest
Wow, talk about strange
How could we both be at the exact time, be saying pretty much the same exact thing!
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TMC
Guest
The Pope is right, as are you on this issue. I apologize that you have had to carry this water alone – I abandoned the topic back when we were ‘discussing’ it on the syncretic prayer thread. The vast, vast majority of Catholics know and understand what the Church clearly teaches --that all Children of Abraham, including the Muslims, pray to the same God. The problem is simple psychology. Cognitive dissonance prevents some from giving even that small acknowledgment to another faith tradition – that they worship the same God, however imperfectly. I don’t think you can argue people out of willful blindness, but I admire your efforts.Maybe the Pope is wrong, and I am wrong and all of you are right. I sure cannot see how the bad in a faith can make the true God the God of Abraham false.
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rinnie
Guest
And as I said we should all take note. And in the end as Christ said ALL who are his Children will come to this understanding and accept it!
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rinnie
Guest
Thats quite okay my Love, If I can get one person to open up and see the Great Mercy of Christ for all of his children it was not in vain.
Maybe the reason I can see it more clearly then others is because of my own (name removed by moderator)erfections
But I know that I am not the best example for the RCC but I pray that who I am, and what I am, would never make people think that The Christ in the RCC is not indeed the ONE true God, because of my actions. We ask our Lord God every Sunday to forgive us, for what we have done, and what we have failed to do.
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PRmerger
Guest
That’s because we’re both simply affirming that which our Church proclaims!Wow, talk about strange
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