Noticing alot of opposition to the Tridentine Mass

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Kristine1957 said:
:confused: Sorry but I’m a convert and I don’t really understand why having Tridentine Mass is making people upset. What difference does it make?🤷
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The Latin Mass has a greater immersion into the mysteries of the Mass. It is a more humbling rite to the faithful.
 
:twocents: Reading some of these posts it sounds like to me Satan is getting just what he wants. People bickering over what Mass to attend and what they like and don’t like… God wants us to love each other and trust that our Holy Father knows what is best for ALL of us even when there is a division.

For me I will do what the Holy Father asks, Im sure he is closer to God than anyone on this earth so I will trust him.🙂
 
Kristine1957 said:
:twocents: Reading some of these posts it sounds like to me Satan is getting just what he wants. People bickering over what Mass to attend and what they like and don’t like… God wants us to love each other and trust that our Holy Father knows what is best for ALL of us even when there is a division.

For me I will do what the Holy Father asks, Im sure he is closer to God than anyone on this earth so I will trust him.🙂
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Well—Pope Paul VI in 1972 did say-- that from a fissure the smoke of satan —had entered the Church. Could be that Pope Benedict with the MP–is trying to stomp that smoke right back down the fissure.
 
Walking_Home said:
Well—Pope Paul VI in 1972 did say-- that from a fissure the smoke of satan —had entered the Church. Could be that Pope Benedict with the MP–is trying to stomp that smoke right back down the fissure.
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Wow! this thread is still going? Just like the Energizer Bunny!

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At Mass this morning the Motu Proprio was mentioned by the celebrant, and as I understood him that it was going to replace the existing practice and that we do not want to return to that…

more and more I’m feeling like a outsider…

james
 
Jakub said:
At Mass this morning the Motu Proprio was mentioned by the celebrant, and as I understood him that it was going to replace the existing practice and that we do not want to return to that…

more and more I’m feeling like a outsider…

james
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Jakub,

I understand that Motu Proprio may appear as follows…the NO is the “Ordinary Latin rite”…and the TLM is an “extraordinary form” of the Latin rite.

And as I stated before, opposition to the Motu Proprio by the conciliar bishops is somewhat understandable just from a practical viewpoint. The result would be that any priest in his diocese could start saying the TLM…this would introduce conflict in his diocese…conflicts in both the laity and clergy. Given these bishop’s track record in wanting to avoid conflict at any cost…one can understand why they might oppose any type of indult to which they lack complete control.

And btw, who would train these “priests” who may want to say the TLM? Would they even have the discipline to learn the rubrics?

Gorman
 
As I understand it, the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King are offering training.

I don’t buy into the upsetting card, they did’nt worry about it in '69…

james
 
Jakub said:
As I understand it, the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King are offering training.

I don’t buy into the upsetting card, they did’nt worry about it in '69…

james
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What goes around comes around?
 
Jakub said:
👍

james
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It does make me wonder how many people who cherish their New Mass and are afraid of the Motu Proprio, have taken the time to consider how the traditionalists felt way back in 1969 when they had their cherished Latin Mass ripped out from beneath them. All we want is to have it back.
 
paramedicgirl said:
It does make me wonder how many people who cherish their New Mass and are afraid of the Motu Proprio, have taken the time to consider how the traditionalists felt way back in 1969 when they had their cherished Latin Mass ripped out from beneath them. All we want is to have it back.
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again, such quotes are a mystery to me. Ripped from you? What about submission to the Holy See? If the Novu Ordo is what was put forth, then where is traditionalsim in terms of aceptance and obediance? That being said, how does ONE church balance having TWO liturgies if the Motu Proprio actually does see the light of day? Also, does anyone know if this affects other liturgies? For example, wasnt there also a revision in the Liturgy of the Hours? Can the previous version with the old caledar and format still be recited in place of the newer one?
 
paramedicgirl said:
It does make me wonder how many people who cherish their New Mass and are afraid of the Motu Proprio, have taken the time to consider how the traditionalists felt way back in 1969 when they had their cherished Latin Mass ripped out from beneath them. All we want is to have it back.
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Remember, though, that we can thank the New Mass for preserving the 1962 Missal, strange how that sounds. If no New Mass, the Roman Rite would have just deteriorated into a complete mumbo-jumbo. Instead today we have something firm to go (back) to, mostly thanks to JPII, who determined that 1962 Missal would be the standard, not the 1957, not the 1965, not the 1967 but the 1962.
 
BobP123 said:
Remember, though, that we can thank the New Mass for preserving the 1962 Missal, strange how that sounds. If no New Mass, the Roman Rite would have just deteriorated into a complete mumbo-jumbo. Instead today we have something firm to go (back) to, mostly thanks to JPII, who determined that 1962 Missal would be the standard, not the 1957, not the 1965, not the 1967 but the 1962.
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Dear BobP123,

The Church is infallible in the doctrinal portion of the disciplines and liturgies She approves and maintains. To say that the official worship of the Church could become “mumbo-jumbo” is offensive to Catholics ears (or at least it should be).

The traditional Catholics who fought for the traditional Mass are the ones to thank…not JPII. The fight today is for the Faith…not just the Traditional Latin Mass.

Gorman
 
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thecoach:
again, such quotes are a mystery to me. Ripped from you? What about submission to the Holy See? If the Novu Ordo is what was put forth, then where is traditionalsim in terms of acceptance and obedience? That being said, how does ONE church balance having TWO liturgies if the Motu Proprio actually does see the light of day?
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Excellent observation, coach!

I can’t understand Paramedicgirl’s illogical thinking that “people who cherish their New Mass are afraid of the Motu Proprio.” Geesh, I haven’t seen any posts that suggested this. It seems like a projection of sorts, or wishful thinking.
 
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thecoach:
again, such quotes are a mystery to me. Ripped from you? What about submission to the Holy See? If the Novu Ordo is what was put forth, then where is traditionalsim in terms of aceptance and obediance?
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Dear coach,

What about the Faith? …the one true Faith? You are placing obedience above Faith. Obedience is a moral virtue. Faith Hope and Charity are theological virtues and as such they are of a higher value. This moral virtue is ALWAYS subordinate to the three theological virtues.
That being said, how does ONE church balance having TWO liturgies if the Motu Proprio actually does see the light of day? Also, does anyone know if this affects other liturgies? For example, wasnt there also a revision in the Liturgy of the Hours? Can the previous version with the old caledar and format still be recited in place of the newer one?
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Now those are legitimate questions…to which there are no good answers IMHO.

Gorman
 
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Gorman64:
What about the Faith? …the one true Faith? You are placing obedience above Faith. Obedience is a moral virtue. Faith Hope and Charity are theological virtues and as such they are of a higher value. This moral virtue is ALWAYS subordinate to the three theological virtues.
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What about the “faith?” Our Catholic “faith” teaches us that the Vicar of Christ in his teaching authority is guided by the Lord Himself, and the proclamations/documents he issues are to be “obeyed” if one wishes to call themselves Catholic.

Obedience is absolutely necessary if one is NOT to deviate from true faith. I hear Coach saying that traditionists were in error with their disobedience, because their refusal to listen to the Church’s new direction was based on some personal idealogies … and it still seems to be based on that alone rather than the true faith.

Puzzleannie’s solution is to go back to the Mass 101 and learn about it. This would probably eliminate much of the bickering we see so often in these threads, if their understanding was properly formed.
 
kellyanne said:
What about the “faith?” Our Catholic “faith” teaches us that the Vicar of Christ in his teaching authority is guided by the Lord Himself, and the proclamations/documents he issues are to be “obeyed” if one wishes to call themselves Catholic.

Obedience is absolutely necessary if one is NOT to deviate from true faith. I hear Coach saying that traditionists were in error with their disobedience, because their refusal to listen to the Church’s new direction was based on some personal idealogies … and it still seems to be based on that alone rather than the true faith.

Puzzleannie’s solution is to go back to the Mass 101 and learn about it. This would probably eliminate much of the bickering we see so often in these threads, if their understanding was properly formed.
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Kellyanne,

Are you calling traditionalists “non-Catholics” here?

Gorman
 
gorman64 said:
Dear BobP123,

The Church is infallible in the doctrinal portion of the disciplines and liturgies She approves and maintains. To say that the official worship of the Church could become “mumbo-jumbo” is offensive to Catholics ears (or at least it should be).

The traditional Catholics who fought for the traditional Mass are the ones to thank…not JPII. The fight today is for the Faith…not just the Traditional Latin Mass.

Gorman
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The “mumbo jumbo” is just speculation on my part. Who knows, if things were left to gradual evolution/growth, the Roman Rite of 2007 might have been vastly superior to the Roman Rite of 1962.
 
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