Notre Dame presses charges against pro life protestors

[reggieM]

This is patently false. Have you heard of ND Response? Did you see students from this group being interviewed on FoxNews, among other stations, multiple times in the weeks leading up to graduation?

I’m grateful for the students and organizers of ND Response. I don’t agree that they would have been successful at all without publicity from Keyes and Terry. I don’t think, for example, ND Response was organized until after Randall Terry issued a call-to-action.

If they were part of the official, permitted protest that falls within University guidelines for what is acceptable on its private property,

Yes, certainly. But the protest was directed against that very thing – namely, “what was permitted on it’s own private property”. If we’re going to say that “Notre Dame can do whatever it wants on it’s private property and we should accept and respect that” – then why protest? We’d be saying that we agree that Obama should get an award because it “fits in the guidelines”. In other words, the protest was supposed to have some meaning and purpose.

But really, as someone who participated in the ND Response activities and Prayer Vigil during Commencement at the Grotto, it really was clear to me that the University bent over backwards to accomodate ND Response’s peaceful protest. No one gave us any trouble!

That is good, but it’s a two-edged sword. I think I said elsewhere that the Terry-Keyes protest shouldn’t complain about getting into trouble because it was desgined to show how far the University would go to defend their pro-abortion award. They will arrest people who support life and give an award to a man who promotes the killing of children.

The bishops who opposed this award could see the problem. Unfortunately, they really did nothing about it except offer feeble statements. Again, it shows their administrative and governing weakness. Anti-Catholic speakers can receive awards, students can praise a pro-abortionist on Catholic property - and the bishops merely make a “statement” that carries no weight or real meaning.

Why a “peaceful pro-life protester” would feel the need to venture off and trespass in other areas of campus when this great outlet was there is beyond me… . What could be more important and more urgent than celebrating the Mass and praying the Rosary for the conversion of the President?

Well, you may be right that the official protest was in the best location. But arresting people who simply protested in other locations is extreme and absurd. It cannot be shown that they were doing something wrong. The university has to explain why they were not doing something seriously wrong in giving Obama an award – and I never saw that happen, even with 90 bishops opposing it.

Again, this is false. Bishop D’Arcy fully supported ND Response’s official protest and said so on multiple occasions.

Ok, you’re making a different point. I was pointing out that even the official protest was a “slap in the face” to the University. It was an insult. Bp. D’Arcy refused to attend – that was a slap right there. Then Mary Ann Glendon declined the Laetare Medal – that was even a bigger slap. So how could protesting on a different part of the campus be a bigger insult? The bishop did not respect the decision of the University to award Obama.

He also participated in many of ND Response’s events, from Eucharistic Adoration on Saturday evening to the Rally for Life on Sunday, where he made an unexpected appearance and speech. Check out the ND Response website and multiple news accounts for more information about Bishop D’Arcy’s actions with ND Response. The students acted with full support of their local bishop.

Yes, exactly. That is great. This was all in opposition to the ND administration.

Not true at all! The sad fact of the matter is that all of these ‘illegal’ protests that resulted in arrests distracted from the great good that was happening at the official, peaceful, on-campus demonstration–to the point that not many of those outside of Notre Dame are even aware that this prayerful witness took place!

This is debatable and I see your point. Actually, I agree with you here although I’m mixed in opinion. Some will say that only by getting arrested can we show how deeply embedded the pro-abortion mentality is in our culture and even in Catholic institutions. Prayer alone, they say, is not sufficient to show the depth of the problem.

Again, I have mixed opinions on this. My starting point is that ND is so far gone that is not a Catholic institution. So, this event merely showed that. I also believe that our bishops are paralyzed by fear and human respect so that they are ineffectual in stopping various evils that are promulgated in Catholic universities across the U.S.

With those two points in mind – is getting arrested something that will change things for the better? It might. We disagree that the arrests brought more good publicity (I think they did), but I more readily agree that prayer and reparation are far better weapons – in theory.

If we had the spiritual foundations and if the students and faculty had them – then this never would have happened.

With prayer we can work the miracles needed and win battles without “firing a shot”.

I do agree that some pro-life activists give very short shrift to prayer as the solution.

Again, I’m grateful to the ND students who stood up and made peaceful offerings to God to stop this. In the end, that is the right way – so I do agree there.

 

[Rach620]

Reggie, Thanks for your long and thoughtful response. I’ll offer my own!

I wanted to respond to several of your points, because in all of the debate that has been going on amongst American Catholics in the past couple of months, I’ve seen lots of commentary from people who really don’t have much personal familiarity with (or love of) Notre Dame. I’ve spent the past 4 years as a part of the “Notre Dame family,” and have been critical of many of the issues that have been raised here. I know many of the debates from my involvement in campus organizations like Right to Life, The Irish Rover, and ND Response…and while I am deeply concerned that ND is heading in the wrong direction, I am not at all ready to give up on it altogether. Notre Dame means too much to the Church in America for Catholics to simply abandon it as lost. It has been a great force for good in the Church, and continues to bear good fruit, even with the most recent developments. So please, keep Notre Dame in your prayers and don’t give up on it just yet!

I’m grateful for the students and organizers of ND Response. I don’t agree that they would have been successful at all without publicity from Keyes and Terry. I don’t think, for example, ND Response was organized until after Randall Terry issued a call-to-action.

The ND Response coalition was organized within the week of the announcement of Obama’s invitation; I know this because I was there. I believe that Randall Terry organized stopobamanotredame.com one or two days before ND Response issued their original press release, but in no way was ND Response organized because of Randall Terry’s “call-to-action”. Indeed, many in the pro-life community were chomping at the bit, craving a student response and wondering “why it was taking so long”–simply put, we’re students, and on top of our other commitments needed to organize a diverse group of people and form a concerted response. That we came together so quickly and so effectively was no small feat!

Now as for the publicity of Keyes and Terry being essential to ND Response’s success, I don’t think this was the case. I, for one, think it is quite unfortunate that Randall Terry–a radical figure who has NO relationship with or working knowledge of Notre Dame–became the face of opposition to Obama’s receiving an honorary degree. Indeed, his and Alan Keyes’ publicity (press conferences at the gates, public arrests, etc.) eclipsed the work being done by students on campus that was, IMO, much more thoughtful and prayerful in nature.

For an example of this: If you look back at the coverage of “anti-abortion protesters” at Notre Dame’s commencement, you rarely see ANY photo or video footage of the ND Response event on the mainstream media outlets. There were a good 2,000 people gathered on campus–the largest gathering I have ever seen on South Quad, and I lived at Notre Dame through 4 football seasons! There was a well-attended open-air Mass, and the Grotto was packed for the prayer vigil. While there were photographers and news media at all of these events, this prayerful witness was not as attention-seeking as Terry and Keyes and the people at the gates with graphic images, so coverage of the ND Response events was less. Great and rousing speeches were given (you can see video at ndresponse.com)–how awesome it would have been to see Fr. Miscamble, CSC on the evening news as the face of opposition to President Obama, rather than Randall Terry! I firmly believe that the media distorted what happened on May 17th and did not show an accurate picture of the large-scale pro-life demonstration that took place, because the ‘un-official’ graphic-image laden protesters on the outskirts of campus distracted their attention and gave them the photos that they wanted to see. Wouldn’t you have rather seen Fr. Pavone on the evening news on May 17th than Randall Terry? Were you even aware that he was THERE? Probably not. And I, for one, blame Randall Terry et al for that.

Yes, certainly. But the protest was directed against that very thing – namely, “what was permitted on it’s own private property”. If we’re going to say that “Notre Dame can do whatever it wants on it’s private property and we should accept and respect that” – then why protest? We’d be saying that we agree that Obama should get an award because it “fits in the guidelines”. In other words, the protest was supposed to have some meaning and purpose.

I don’t buy your argument that the only valuable protest is the illicit one. The only way this type of ‘civil disobedience’ is called for is when the law being broken by the disobedience is itself unjust. It cannot be said that a private University having a regulation forbidding public protests on its private property is an unjust law, because this regulation is enforced upon anyone who breaks it (for example: a gay rights caravan attempted to stop on campus while I was there as an undergrad, and those participating were promptly arrested.) I heard Alan Keyes and Randall Terry compared to Rosa Parks for walking on campus and getting arrested for praying the Rosary, and I just think that’s silly–they set out to get arrested for breaking a trespassing regulation, while Rosa Parks was arrested because she was breaking an unjust law that racially discriminated on a public bus.

This hits again at the root of the issue–ND Response was organized out of love and respect for the University. We don’t believe it’s all bad, because we actually KNOW it, know people in the community, have been shaped intellectually and spiritually by life there. We knew that the only way we could effectively show our deep disagreement with what the Administration was doing was if we had the University’s permission to do so.

 

[Rach620]

The bishops who opposed this award could see the problem. Unfortunately, they really did nothing about it except offer feeble statements. Again, it shows their administrative and governing weakness. Anti-Catholic speakers can receive awards, students can praise a pro-abortionist on Catholic property - and the bishops merely make a “statement” that carries no weight or real meaning.

I didn’t find the bishops’ statements to be ‘feeble,’ though I did find Fr. Jenkins’ responses to be so.

Unfortunately, the bishops, even the local bishop, has no real administrative power over Notre Dame. The last, best hope for Notre Dame comes from within–from the CSC not putting Fr. Jenkins forward next year for a renewal of his term as president, and for a high-percentage increase in the number of Catholic faculty over the next few years.

Well, you may be right that the official protest was in the best location. But arresting people who simply protested in other locations is extreme and absurd. It cannot be shown that they were doing something wrong.

They were trespassing. They knew they would get arrested for trespassing, and made a point of doing so. Now that this has simmered down in the national media, ND could easily quietly drop the charges, but they have a right to not allow public protesters to overrun the campus, especially during finals week.

Ok, you’re making a different point. I was pointing out that even the official protest was a “slap in the face” to the University. It was an insult.

OK, I was confused about what you said. I thought you said that Bishop D’Arcy refused to attend ND Response events because they were part of the university.

This is debatable and I see your point. Actually, I agree with you here although I’m mixed in opinion. Some will say that only by getting arrested can we show how deeply embedded the pro-abortion mentality is in our culture and even in Catholic institutions. Prayer alone, they say, is not sufficient to show the depth of the problem.

I wouldn’t say that ND Response’s events were ‘prayer alone’. Based firmly in prayer, yes, but also there were plenty of rousing speeches and witness given to all the people crossing campus to head to Commencement. I believe ND Response’s events were much more fitting for the University setting than graphic posters on the outskirts (or in the skies), but that’s JMHO.

Again, I have mixed opinions on this. My starting point is that ND is so far gone that is not a Catholic institution. So, this event merely showed that. I also believe that our bishops are paralyzed by fear and human respect so that they are ineffectual in stopping various evils that are promulgated in Catholic universities across the U.S.

Again, I hopes I’ve at least shown a bit that ND is not ‘so far gone’. There is much good being done on campus, there is a strong, visible minority of orthodox and very spiritually active students and faculty. The Theology department is one of the strongest in the country at a Catholic University. Daily Mass is said probably close to 30 times per day in the various chapels on campus, and is well-attended. There are always lines for Confession (offered 3 times per day) in the Basilica…I could go on.

Also, don’t lose faith in the bishops over this. Realistically, they had little power to stop what happened because of ND’s administrative structure. It is not administered by the diocese, and while the Administration should follow the dictates of the local bishop, there is nothing in place that obligates them to do so.

With those two points in mind – is getting arrested something that will change things for the better? It might. We disagree that the arrests brought more good publicity (I think they did), but I more readily agree that prayer and reparation are far better weapons – in theory.

From reading the local paper and talking to plenty of locals outside of ND, I don’t think the arrests brought good publicity…

If we had the spiritual foundations and if the students and faculty had them – then this never would have happened.

This was an action by the ADMINISTRATION and does not reveal the full support of ALL students and ALL faculty.

 

[reggieM]

This was an action by the ADMINISTRATION and does not reveal the full support of ALL students and ALL faculty.

Absolutely right. I hope my comments did not imply a criticism of all the students and faculty. I do think the university itself is compromised (the support of Fr. Richard McBrien alone is enough for me). I think the majority of the campus is dissenting Catholic (the media did interview several students who consider themselves “pro-choice”). I wish it was otherwise. I don’t think all ND students and faculty should have their reputations tarnished by the actions of Fr. Jenkins – and the official protest did much to show that.

 

[Darryl1958]

This is not a liberalocracy, but a leftocracy.

Free speech is permitted in a liberalocracy. In a leftocracy, only PC speech is.

I fully accept that criticism.
The more liberals that refuse to be associated with the left, the better.

I love being corrected on this point in fact.

 

[BobCatholic]

youtube.com/watch?v=iiz4tfjSuPc

Look at the arrested priest.

While watching this, ponder how much free speech you really have.

 

[Darryl1958]

youtube.com/watch?v=iiz4tfjSuPc

Look at the arrested priest.

While watching this, ponder how much free speech you really have.

This is Catholic against Catholic on the issue of pro-life.

It is the face of Notre Dame.

 

[BobCatholic]

This is Catholic against Catholic on the issue of pro-life.

It is the face of Notre Dame.

Actually, it is CINO versus Catholic on the issue of pro-life.

The Gospel says to love thy neighbor, not suck your neighbor into a sink.

 

[JimG]

This is Catholic against Catholic on the issue of pro-life.

It is the face of Notre Dame.

Judging by the enthusiastic response of the students and faculty attending the speech, it would seem that a great many ND students approve of the Obama brand of Catholicism.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

You shoplift; you get arrested and prosecuted. If you trespass; you get arrested and prosecuted. I know of a mild-mannered priest who was arrested in the seventies at an urban renewal protest.

Look many of the protesters went to Notre Dame for the purpose of getting arrested. I’m not gonna tear up about their fate now. Why should they be deprived of the fate they sought?

The cardinal said no protests at Mass and everyone thought this was real appropriate. Notre Dame said no outsiders here on our campus protesting during graduation. Now the college should be criticized?

Free speech is not an issue – the first amendment relates to state action, not private parties.

 

[Palm_Tree]

youtube.com/watch?v=iiz4tfjSuPc

Look at the arrested priest.

While watching this, ponder how much free speech you really have.

Sorry I’ve I’m misunderstanding you, but it seems like you are ungrateful to be an American. There are billions and billions of people on this planet that wish they had the free speech rights you have here in the US and would gladly switch countries with you. Obviously, we are going to have some reasonable restrictions on the freedom of expression preventing people from stuff like showing pornographic movies in public, people flashing their privates in public, people using curse words on public TV, people trespassing on private property, etc (would you like it if anti-Bob protesters where allowed to invade your property and enter your home and bedroom under the banner of free speech? Would you like it if Pro-Choice protestors were allowed to protest your parish’s private property and enter your church during Mass under the banner of free speech?)

Notre Dame’s a private school run by a religious order (not a public school run by the government). The government gives private schools, especially religious schools, more freedom to set their own rules (for example the Christian university that was in the news the other day for abolishing the Democrat student club because of how Democrats are Pro-Abortion… yes, the US government allows them the freedom to do that). If you don’t like the rules at a private school, especially at a religious school, you have the freedom to go to another school like a public school or another private university with different rules. Nobody’s forcing you to go to Notre Dame, it’s voluntary a decision their students make freely.

As for Notre Dame’s policies that they freely choose for themselves, I don’t know what they are (maybe they prohibit all protests on their private property or maybe the just prohibit protests by non-students). But who cares? It’s a private school and you are not forced to go to school there, it’s voluntary a decision their students make freely. If Notre Dame freely chooses for themselves to protect the freedom of the individuals who want to work or study at Notre Dame, a **private **school, without being distracted by protestors, that’s their business. It’s a private school, private property.

But yeah, as for all this news regarding Pro-Life protestors being arrested at Notre Dame, I’m not going to jump to conclusions before I hear both sides of the story. Who authorized it? Who called the police? Just some random student that was trying to get work done? Some student that was upset that the protestors were yelling obscenities at him? The school officials? Did the police just show up on their own? As for that priest in the video, what happened there? The video starts with the priest being arrested–what happened before that? Was he yelling obscenities at the police or Notre Dame students? Did the police show up and respectfully inform him that he was trespassing on private property, asking him politely to leave or else they would arrest him, and the priest refused? I’d like to see the police report, I’d like to interview the witnesses, etc. But as for the whole situation regarding the arrests of the trespassers on Notre Dame’s campus, part of me doesn’t care, because I’m sure there are reasonable explanations for everything (there usually are). But another part of me cares, because:

1. it is sad to see the anti-Notre Dame (Our Lady) fanatics using this situation to spread their hatred here on Earth live the Devil loves, just like it would be sad to for me see any anti-Pro Life fanatics using a situation to spread their hatred, especially if it involved a prestigeous Catholic school that they were trying to smear.
2. If there was injustice being done, I want to know about, but I want to hear it from somebody who honestly considered both sides of the story and researched all the aspects and issues involved with an desire to tell the complete truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[RobbyS]

I don’t know about that. I participated in the authorized protest and there was a lot of opposition to both Notre Dame and the Lord Obama expressed rather forcefully.

They want to make it seem that the ones who acted out are typical of those at the Grotto. Have you noticed that Judge Noonan’s remarks at the ceremony were little reported? So much for dialogue. Jenkins was giddy with delight because he knows that he got away with what could have been a PR disaster. Then we have that strange reaction from Rome, which makes it seem they are trying to curry favor with Obama.

 

[RobbyS]

Sorry I’ve I’m misunderstanding you, but it seems like you are ungrateful to be an American. There are billions and billions of people on this planet that wish they had the free speech rights you have here in the US and would gladly switch countries with you. Obviously, we are going to have some reasonable restrictions on the freedom of expression preventing people from stuff like showing pornographic movies in public, people flashing their privates in public, people using curse words on public TV, people trespassing on private property, etc (would you like it if anti-Bob protesters where allowed to invade your property and enter your home and bedroom under the banner of free speech? Would you like it if Pro-Choice protestors were allowed to protest your parish’s private property and enter your church during Mass under the banner of free speech?)

Notre Dame’s a private school run by a religious order (not a public school run by the government). The government gives private schools, especially religious schools, more freedom to set their own rules (for example the Christian university that was in the news the other day for abolishing the Democrat student club because of how Democrats are Pro-Abortion… yes, the US government allows them the freedom to do that). If you don’t like the rules at a private school, especially at a religious school, you have the freedom to go to another school like a public school or another private university with different rules. Nobody’s forcing you to go to Notre Dame, it’s voluntary a decision their students make freely.

As for Notre Dame’s policies that they freely choose for themselves, I don’t know what they are (maybe they prohibit all protests on their private property or maybe the just prohibit protests by non-students). But who cares? It’s a private school and you are not forced to go to school there, it’s voluntary a decision their students make freely. If Notre Dame freely chooses for themselves to protect the freedom of the individuals who want to work or study at Notre Dame, a **private **school, without being distracted by protestors, that’s their business. It’s a private school, private property.

But yeah, as for all this news regarding Pro-Life protestors being arrested at Notre Dame, I’m not going to jump to conclusions before I hear both sides of the story. Who authorized it? Who called the police? Just some random student that was trying to get work done? Some student that was upset that the protestors were yelling obscenities at him? The school officials? Did the police just show up on their own? As for that priest in the video, what happened there? The video starts with the priest being arrested–what happened before that? Was he yelling obscenities at the police or Notre Dame students? Did the police show up and respectfully inform him that he was trespassing on private property, asking him politely to leave or else they would arrest him, and the priest refused? I’d like to see the police report, I’d like to interview the witnesses, etc. But as for the whole situation regarding the arrests of the trespassers on Notre Dame’s campus, part of me doesn’t care, because I’m sure there are reasonable explanations for everything (there usually are). But another part of me cares, because:

1. it is sad to see the anti-Notre Dame (Our Lady) fanatics using this situation to spread their hatred here on Earth live the Devil loves, just like it would be sad to for me see any anti-Pro Life fanatics using a situation to spread their hatred, especially if it involved a prestigeous Catholic school that they were trying to smear.
2. If there was injustice being done, I want to know about, but I want to hear it from somebody who honestly considered both sides of the story and researched all the aspects and issues involved with an desire to tell the complete truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

You might start by considering that eighty bishops advised Notre Dame not to go ahead. Some used very strong language. As for the private property stuff, remember the sit-ins that were part of the civil rights movement? (Anyway You may have read about it). Civil disobedience is not necessarily a non-violent process. Plenty of state and local policemen were injured trying to arrest demonstrators. A lot of the young guys were big and strong and did not quietly go into custody. Imagine a hundred people arms locked marching straight at a police line. It was revolution, man! Some of it looked like the rioting at the Chicago convention in 1968. In fact, the peace demonstrators used much the same tactics as the civil rights demonstrators. Randall Terry’s people were a lot less aggressive at their worst years ago.

 

[mystified]

Am interested in how thisplays out. As Catholic who has never been to South Bend, I wonder what has happened to the elderly priest who was arrested with rosary in hand. Is he still awaiting trial. Having ND as witness for the prosecution of a priest would make a laughingstock of that once great Catholic inistitution.

 

[imperial]

Yeah has anyone heard what’s happing with Fr. Weslin,? :imsorry:
Is Mr Jenkins going to be a witness against Fr Weslin?
Disgraceful :slapfight:

 

[Rach620]

They want to make it seem that the ones who acted out are typical of those at the Grotto. Have you noticed that Judge Noonan’s remarks at the ceremony were little reported?

No one at the Grotto was arrested; no one at the Grotto was trespassing or ‘acting out’ in a way that the University was not forewarned about. All of the protests there received the proper permissions, and as I’ve said before, the degree of latitude which they gave ND Response in organizing a large-scale event on Commencement day in two prominent campus locations is astonishing to me. There were thousands of people on the quad, and hundreds more gathered in the Grotto. NONE were arrested, even though the majority were non-students. ALL pro-life protesters were invited to these events.

Judge Noonan’s remarks, while perhaps intended to ‘balance’ Obama’s pro-choice views, were abhorrent, IMO. I should try to find some quotes for you, and I’m sure you can find video of his speech on nd.edu, but he did not adequately present the pro-life position and instead attacked those who were protesting Obama’s appearance, giving credence to debating the abortion issue in our own consciences. It was a mess.

But yeah, as for all this news regarding Pro-Life protestors being arrested at Notre Dame, I’m not going to jump to conclusions before I hear both sides of the story. Who authorized it? Who called the police? Just some random student that was trying to get work done? Some student that was upset that the protestors were yelling obscenities at him? The school officials? Did the police just show up on their own? As for that priest in the video, what happened there? The video starts with the priest being arrested–what happened before that? Was he yelling obscenities at the police or Notre Dame students? Did the police show up and respectfully inform him that he was trespassing on private property, asking him politely to leave or else they would arrest him, and the priest refused? I’d like to see the police report, I’d like to interview the witnesses, etc. But as for the whole situation regarding the arrests of the trespassers on Notre Dame’s campus, part of me doesn’t care, because I’m sure there are reasonable explanations for everything (there usually are). But another part of me cares, because:

1. it is sad to see the anti-Notre Dame (Our Lady) fanatics using this situation to spread their hatred here on Earth live the Devil loves, just like it would be sad to for me see any anti-Pro Life fanatics using a situation to spread their hatred, especially if it involved a prestigeous Catholic school that they were trying to smear.
2. If there was injustice being done, I want to know about, but I want to hear it from somebody who honestly considered both sides of the story and researched all the aspects and issues involved with an desire to tell the complete truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

FYI, the protesters who were arrested in Randall Terry’s and Alan Keyes’ group announced that they would trespass on Notre Dame’s campus and sought their own arrests. Yes, it is heart-wrenching to see a priest arrested on campus, but it’s not like NDSP (Notre Dame’s police force) ran out to get him. NDSP allowed the protesters to walk for probably 500 or so feet onto campus along Notre Dame Avenue, where they waited for them at the end. When the protesters arrived with their baby carriages, signs, etc., they were asked to leave quietly or told they would be placed under arrest for trespassing. Since this is what they wanted to do for publicity’s sake, they were arrested. Since they intended to be arrested, I’m puzzled as to why so many paint ND as the bad guy here.

Many, many other forms of ‘protest’ were opened up to those who disagreed with honoring Obama–speakers were invited (such as Bill McGurn, ND alum and former speechwriter to President Bush) who spoke against the invitation and elaborated on what it meant for ND and for Catholicism in America. ND Response led a rally for life on Palm Sunday, to which outsiders were invited to participate on campus–no arrests were made there, either. Randall Terry’s techniques throughout this whole ordeal were designed to attract maximum press coverage–but they don’t necessarily reflect the reality of everything that went on at Notre Dame. It’s not as if a whole university stood idly by, and the only ones leading the cause of truth were Randall Terry, Alan Keyes, and a few others who managed to get themselves arrested. THEIR actions distract from all of the real good that happened, even amidst the bad.

 

[reggieM]

Yes, it is heart-wrenching to see a priest arrested on campus, but it’s not like NDSP (Notre Dame’s police force) ran out to get him. NDSP allowed the protesters to walk for probably 500 or so feet onto campus along Notre Dame Avenue, where they waited for them at the end. When the protesters arrived with their baby carriages, signs, etc., they were asked to leave quietly or told they would be placed under arrest for trespassing. Since this is what they wanted to do for publicity’s sake, they were arrested. Since they intended to be arrested, I’m puzzled as to why so many paint ND as the bad guy here.

Why would we think that ND is *not *the bad guy in this entire affair? Is there some way to excuse or defend what they did?

 

[Havard]

Why would we think that ND is *not *the bad guy in this entire affair? Is there some way to excuse or defend what they did?

Father Jenkins is responsible for the university honoring President Obama, a decision which deeply saddens me. But the administration’s policy that requires demonstrators to coordinate with events and security staff is completely reasonable, in my opinion. It saddens me that Ambassador Keyes and the others with him chose to thumb their noses at a perfectly reasonable request. I cannot blame the security officers for doing their job at that point.

 

[Rach620]

Father Jenkins is responsible for the university honoring President Obama, a decision which deeply saddens me. But the administration’s policy that requires demonstrators to coordinate with events and security staff is completely reasonable, in my opinion. It saddens me that Ambassador Keyes and the others with him chose to thumb their noses at a perfectly reasonable request. I cannot blame the security officers for doing their job at that point.

Exactly. The protesters’ method of ‘civil disobedience’ didn’t really target the wrong they were protesting–the honoring of President Obama. They were NOT arrested for opposing honoring Obama; they WERE arrested for trespassing. Again, they intended to get arrested for breaking a pretty standard regulation on a private university campus which bans outside protests, whatever the cause. And again, there were plenty of other outlets through which they could express themselves.

They chose this particular avenue, and knew what the consequences would be before-hand. It’s not like NDSP was standing there in riot gear, waiting for them to cross the threshhold onto campus each day they prayed at the gates–it was only when they intentionally walked several hundred feet onto campus that arrests were made.

I stand by my statement that ND is not a monolithic ‘bad guy’. Many, many efforts were made to accomodate ND Response’s protest, even while the University honored Obama across campus. And the particular arrest incidents don’t even play directly into this issue–the very same protesters could have been protesting any other issue and would have been similarly arrested, though it can’t be said that those protesting other issues would have had such accomodations made for them TO protest. Gay rights activists attempted to bring a bus to campus during their nationwide pride tour a couple of years ago, and were arrested/escorted off, with no on-campus demonstration organized.

We all wish the overall outcome at ND had been different–that Obama had never been invited, that an honorary degree hadn’t been bestowed. But I firmly believe, still, that ND isn’t ALL bad. There are many, many good people at the University, and many good things still happening there. I don’t think Our Lady is turning her back on Notre Dame, but is instead praying all the more to her Son on its behalf.

 

[reggieM]

I stand by my statement that ND is not a monolithic ‘bad guy’.

Ninety bishops opposed the action, some in very harsh language.

I can’t see how ND is *not *the bad guy here.

We all wish the overall outcome at ND had been different–that Obama had never been invited, that an honorary degree hadn’t been bestowed.

Yes, they were the bad guy in this issue and that point should not be confused. It’s not even close to comparing their badness with the actions of people protesting. The problem is ND, not the protestors.

But I firmly believe, still, that ND isn’t ALL bad. There are many, many good people at the University, and many good things still happening there.

Ok, but itsn’t that like saying “Obama does some good things”? I think that’s out of proportion to the problem that occurred.

Nothing in this life is “all bad”. But I cannot see how ND can be defended in their actions with the Obama scandal.

I don’t think Our Lady is turning her back on Notre Dame, but is instead praying all the more to her Son on its behalf.

The true fact that she has not and will not turn her back is made worse by the insults given to her honor with this terrible event. Thankfully, it was denounced by many bishops. Thankfully also, reparation was made by the many students offering prayers, and the Mass – but also by those who were arrested. They offered their suffering for the unborn children.

It’s similar to Operation Rescue itself. People tried to block abortion clinics in order to save the lives of babies. I don’t think we should scoff at or look down our noses at those who suffered much – arrests and ridicule – to try to save lives.

It may not be our own personal calling, but let’s not judge the good people standing up for life in their own way. That’s what civil disobedience is about.