Notre Dame presses charges against pro life protestors

[elts1956]

Familiarity with Notre Dame’s campus and with the events of the weekend would probably help to clarify what happened here…I wasn’t in that area of campus when the arrests took place, but I saw photographs and can place it in my mind. It is VERY clear when one enters the ND campus at the main gate, and for the most part ALL protesters, including the pro-life and pro-Obama ones, were gathered outside the gates, along the streets. They would know when they entered campus and when they would be trespassing. As far as I am aware, this man’s report is hearsay–all of the local news outlets focused on reports of women trespassing through security checkpoints or closer to the Stadium and Convocation Center where Commencement was being held. Notre Dame cops weren’t wandering the streets just outside of campus arresting pro-lifers and letting pro-choicers roam free.

Please, I invite you to come to Notre Dame, wander about the campus, sit in on a few theology classes, attend a conference sponsored by the Center for Ethics and Culture, top it off with Mass at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart–and then tell me that Notre Dame “is truly then a secular university, not tied to the Catholic Church in the least.”

But Rach., ND is the one who broke all ties to its Catholic identity in the Land O Lakes delaration in which it was decared that it was no longer under ANY Catholic jurisdiction. How can one be assured that the theology is Catholic theology, that ND hasn’t fallen to ONLY teaching the deals of Social Justice without the truths of the Church being the foundation of ALL its teaching? Bishop D’Arcy has stated he wants to “save” what is left of ND’s identity, those students who adhere to the teachings and the faith of the Church. But unless those students can somehow turn this secular identity of ND around, I think Notre Dame can no longer be considered the flagship of Catholic culture.

 

[elts1956]

Trespassing is one of the Church’s most important teachings? These same people could come protest your parish and dioceses for not preaching anti-abortion homilies every single Mass, and I doubt your parish and diocese would be cool with that.

If all the Parishes and Dioceses here in the US had a homily teaching the evil and immorality of abortion, euthanasia and other life issues along with the other “Social Justice” issues you liberals are so concerned about, even once a month, I would stand up and clap every time I heard one, even though I think that shouldn’t be allowed in Church. But then, that is the LIBERAL coming out in ME. :extrahappy:

 

[elts1956]

Trespassing is one of the Church’s most important teachings? These same loons could come protest your parish and dioceses for not preaching anti-abortion homilies every single Mass, and I doubt your parish and diocese would be cool with that.

When it comes to the news, BobCatholic and LifeSiteNews are both known for being overly-dramatic and misleading ?? when it comes to the truth. By being like that, they think they are helping the Church and the Pro-Life movement.

You are most free to exprss your personal opinion on anything, anyone you like as long as you keep it inside the strictures of CAF. You are getting perilously close to the line. For one thing,anything you post should be back up with sources.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Trespassing is one of the Church’s most important teachings? These same people could come protest your parish and dioceses for not preaching anti-abortion homilies every single Mass, and I doubt your parish and diocese would be cool with that.

No. The right to life.

 

[Palm_Tree]

I think Notre Dame can no longer be considered the flagship of Catholic culture.

Notre Dame is not the flagship of Catholic culture. That is Christ and the Holy Father. But Notre Dame provides a very rich Catholic culture for its people on it campus.

Somebody very close to me is a professor there, and he is very orthodox, and he has spent more time protesting abortion clinics that many of you combined. He is more heavily involved with the Church than many of you combined. He has even gone on foreign missions in service of the poor, living in the most poor conditions you could imagine. He has been like this his whole life, long before he arrived on Notre Dame’s campus for the first time a few years ago. And he tells me over and over and over that Notre Dame provides the most devout and faithful Catholic culture that he has every experienced, and he begs me to come up there and visit, especially during Easter.

I called him up the other day and said that there were all these nuts on here trashing Notre Dame and of course this was a huge issue for him that he followed closely and he had all kind of reasonable responses to everything, and he even sent me all these emails backing up his point.

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http://www.takepart.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/notre-dame-dome.jpg

 

[Palm_Tree]

No. The right to life.

Um, they were arrested for trespassing, not being Pro-Life. You do realize this don’t you?

Again:

Is trespassing one of the Church’s most important teachings? These same people could come protest your parish and dioceses for not preaching anti-abortion homilies every single Mass, and I doubt your parish and diocese would be cool with that.

 

[Palm_Tree]

You are most free to exprss your personal opinion on anything, anyone you like as long as you keep it inside the strictures of CAF. You are getting perilously close to the line. For one thing,anything you post should be back up with sources.

Uh, Rach is the eye witness that directly refuted BobCatholic and LifeSiteNews. Or are you calling her a liar?

 

[reggieM]

If all the Parishes and Dioceses here in the US had a homily teaching the evil and immorality of abortion, euthanasia and other life issues along with the other “Social Justice” issues you liberals are so concerned about, even once a month, I would stand up and clap every time I heard one, even though I think that shouldn’t be allowed in Church. But then, that is the LIBERAL coming out in ME. :extrahappy:

:yup: … to everything except the clapping, but I’d be tempted to do that also.

 

[Teelynn]

But Rach., ND is the one who broke all ties to its Catholic identity in the Land O Lakes delaration in which it was decared that it was no longer under ANY Catholic jurisdiction. How can one be assured that the theology is Catholic theology, that ND hasn’t fallen to ONLY teaching the deals of Social Justice without the truths of the Church being the foundation of ALL its teaching? Bishop D’Arcy has stated he wants to “save” what is left of ND’s identity, those students who adhere to the teachings and the faith of the Church. But unless those students can somehow turn this secular identity of ND around, I think Notre Dame can no longer be considered the flagship of Catholic culture.

SPOT ON!!! Excellent Post!! Seems to me, however, they’re fighting a loosing battle.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

On top of it, Notre Dame is pressing charges against people who are promoting one of the Catholic Church’s most important teachings.

What if, instead of stating their intention to trespass and get arrested ahead of time, they had stated an intention to burn down the place where the president spoke ahead of time? Folks can promote the Church’s teachings without (let’s face it) detailed publicity stunts for the cameras.

 

[Palm_Tree]

SPOT ON!!! Excellent Post!! Seems to me, however, they’re fighting a loosing battle.

Yeah! Satan is King! Down with the Church! The University of Our Lady is fighting a loosing battle! The Church is in ruins! Yeah! Faith and hope is silly. What was Jesus thinking? Yeah!

 

[jofo817]

If it was a gay or women’s rights group, who threw garbage around, they would have been let off and the charges not pressed after being broken up – though normally in fact they would’ve been allowed to protest.

But if it’s a Pro-Life group… press the charges!

The same thing happened under Julian the Apostate. . He preached equality of all religions, but really instead of being Christian, was a secret pagan… It was his method for destroying the religion he hated and promoting the one he liked. He knew if he created Christian martyrs outright it would be a problem, so he simply always favored the pagans, and oppressed the Christians to exterminate them, all the while claiming that people had equal rights and tolerance for all religions.

The courts would prosecute in one case… excuse in the other.

Julian the Apostate is one of the models for the future Anti-Christ. A foreshadowing.

Looks like Notre Dame is doing its own little dance to the devil’s fiddle too.

Same thing is still happening today. Nothing new under the sun (Ecc. 1:9)
you will know when it is near, even at the doors (Matt 24:33)

 

[Palm_Tree]

Same thing is still happening today. Nothing new under the sun (Ecc. 1:9)
you will know when it is near, even at the doors (Matt 24:33)

The Devil can quote the Bible. What does the Holy Father say about the Notre Dame situation?

 

[reggieM]

I agree that this was a great post by elts1956 …

But Rach., ND is the one who broke all ties to its Catholic identity in the Land O Lakes delaration in which it was decared that it was no longer under ANY Catholic jurisdiction.

That decision has proven to be a disaster not only for ND but for several Catholic universities that are falling into the same kinds of problems.

How can one be assured that the theology is Catholic theology, that ND hasn’t fallen to ONLY teaching the deals of Social Justice without the truths of the Church being the foundation of ALL its teaching?

Excellent question. I think the answer is that one cannot be assured of such.

Bishop D’Arcy has stated he wants to “save” what is left of ND’s identity, those students who adhere to the teachings and the faith of the Church.

All of that is good – and I do agree with Rachael’s insistence that there are many good students and professors at ND. But news coverage of the Obama scandal exposed the fact that a majority of the campus cares nothing about pro-life matters and many students (supposedly “Catholic”) are openly pro-abortion. Just the way Bp. D’Arcy made that statement affirms the problem – he’s going to try to save what’s left, if possible!

But unless those students can somehow turn this secular identity of ND around, I think Notre Dame can no longer be considered the flagship of Catholic culture.

Exactly right. It’s not the task of the students to change the university. They deserve good formation from the start. It is wrong to push the task of reform on them. They’re supposed to be affirmed in their faith at ND, not have to fight against the administration to preserve it.

My heart does go out to the faithful Catholic students. They were stabbed in the back by the administration. It’s good that there are pockets of orthodox Catholicism on campus also.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Um, they were arrested for trespassing, not being Pro-Life. You do realize this don’t you?

Again:

Is trespassing one of the Church’s most important teachings? These same people could come protest your parish and dioceses for not preaching anti-abortion homilies every single Mass, and I doubt your parish and diocese would be cool with that.

Charging people with trespassing is just one of the ways they silence pro-lifers. They can’t really get them for anything else.

If Notre Dame has officially fallen into apostacy and endorses pro-abort political leaders, maybe it’s about time the RCC cuts them off and excommunicates the clergy responsible for it.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

What if, instead of stating their intention to trespass and get arrested ahead of time, they had stated an intention to burn down the place where the president spoke ahead of time? Folks can promote the Church’s teachings without (let’s face it) detailed publicity stunts for the cameras.

sometimes those publicity styunts are done to get people’s attention so you can inform them about what is going on. No Catholic university should invite a pro-abort president to speak.

 

[Teelynn]

Yeah! Satan is King! Down with the Church! The University of Our Lady is fighting a loosing battle! The Church is in ruins! Yeah! Faith and hope is silly. What was Jesus thinking? Yeah!

Yes, down with that segment of the one and only true Church of Jesus Christ that continues to try to marginalize true Catholicism. Ya know, the social justice, secular Catholics. It gets extremely old when the Clergy that are able to take an uncompromising stand, absolutely refuse to. And actually, except for PRAYER which is of extreme importance and venting once in a while on these forums, the laity has their hands tied.

 

[michael_john_ch]

Catholics keep in touch with your Church, listen to EWTN Sunday Night Live with Fr.Groeschel, The World Over and other programs. Go to Church and that is all, be informed about your Church; put your minds to work; inquire. Notre Dame, St Johns New York, Georgetown; and there are others. There are many fine professors in these schools but there are a lot professors with views and teaching anti-Christian views. What better place to have Satan teaching are future rulers. Our Bishops have to start speaking up do not be afraid of the press. I have get off my high horse.
Charles Adams

 

[otjm]

There seems to be a good bit of passion about the issue of Notre Dame persuing trespass issues.

There is a simple answer in criminal law: “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime”… It appears that Notre Dame set up a process by which protesters could go on campus legally, and it appears that some individuals chose to not go through the process; in other words, it appears that they invited a confrontation by knowingly violating trespass law.

I use the word “appears” because the media is not the most reliable source of information, particularly when issues tend to be heated up by emotions.

There are some who advocate confrontation concerning the issues around abortion. Without castiagting them, that seems not to be the mind of the Church, nor the mind of the large majority of pro-life advocates.

This matter will play itself out in the courts, unless Notre Dame chooses for whatever reason to not persue the matter further. I liken the trespassers in this case to those, such as the Berrigans, et alia, who have protested war, nuclear weapons, the War College, and other issues related; much of it made very good street theater and accomplished not a terrible amount more. They claim credit for getting the War College changed, a subject that may or may not be true (the change, if it actually occured), and the credit which may or may not be due to the street drama aspects of their protests.

It should be noted that there were protests at Notre Dame which are not being prosecuted, because they apparently used the proper channels for their gathering.

Which leaves one to question whether Notre Dame, being a private institution and having the same property rights as other institutions, corporations, and individuals, has the right to limit the number of protesters, or protest sites, or who (e.g. the media) may or may not cover them. The law certainly grants that right.

None of which I say should suggest to anyone that I agree with Notre Dame’s invitation to the President. It is my sincere hope that some significant contributors will finally get the message, and send a message to the Board of Trustees. There isn’t much else except perhaps the passage of time that will result in change otherwise. And there is probably no message as convincing as cutting off funds. The reasons to be given if there is a change probably won’t be direct, open and honest - in other words they will mealy-mouth their way through it - but if they get cut off at the knees funding-wise, one can bet good money change will come.

 

[elts1956]

The Devil can quote the Bible. What does the Holy Father say about the Notre Dame situation?

The Holy Father won’t say anything about the NDU scandal. He and others before him have stated the theology of the Church regarding committing/participating in scandal/spreading divisiveness. The Bishops have stated their position regarding honoring a public figure who supports Intrinsic Evil. It won’t be repeated, nor should it have to be.

He had/has faith as I once did that the truth, values and teachings of Holy Mother Church will out and be supported by any University that calls itself Catholic. So far, I am sure he is as disappointed as I am about the leadership of NDU.

The good thing about what I call NDU’s apostosy is that it has made a very PUBLIC statement about what it holds true and sacred. What was hidden is now revealed.