Notre Dame presses charges against pro life protestors

[elts1956]

The Devil can quote the Bible. What does the Holy Father say about the Notre Dame situation?

There seems to be a good bit of passion about the issue of Notre Dame persuing trespass issues.

There is a simple answer in criminal law: “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime”… It appears that Notre Dame set up a process by which protesters could go on campus legally, and it appears that some individuals chose to not go through the process; in other words, it appears that they invited a confrontation by knowingly violating trespass law.

I use the word “appears” because the media is not the most reliable source of information, particularly when issues tend to be heated up by emotions.

There are some who advocate confrontation concerning the issues around abortion. Without castiagting them, that seems not to be the mind of the Church, nor the mind of the large majority of pro-life advocates.

This matter will play itself out in the courts, unless Notre Dame chooses for whatever reason to not persue the matter further. I liken the trespassers in this case to those, such as the Berrigans, et alia, who have protested war, nuclear weapons, the War College, and other issues related; much of it made very good street theater and accomplished not a terrible amount more. They claim credit for getting the War College changed, a subject that may or may not be true (the change, if it actually occured), and the credit which may or may not be due to the street drama aspects of their protests.

It should be noted that there were protests at Notre Dame which are not being prosecuted, because they apparently used the proper channels for their gathering.

Which leaves one to question whether Notre Dame, being a private institution and having the same property rights as other institutions, corporations, and individuals, has the right to limit the number of protesters, or protest sites, or who (e.g. the media) may or may not cover them. The law certainly grants that right.

None of which I say should suggest to anyone that I agree with Notre Dame’s invitation to the President. It is my sincere hope that some significant contributors will finally get the message, and send a message to the Board of Trustees. There isn’t much else except perhaps the passage of time that will result in change otherwise. And there is probably no message as convincing as cutting off funds. The reasons to be given if there is a change probably won’t be direct, open and honest - in other words they will mealy-mouth their way through it - but if they get cut off at the knees funding-wise, one can bet good money change will come.

I have also “heard” bo supporters were ignored and not chastized, arrested etc. Any truth to this? All Pro Life people need to carry a video camera with them as every protest, vigil.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Catholics keep in touch with your Church, listen to EWTN Sunday Night Live with Fr.Groeschel, The World Over and other programs. Go to Church and that is all, be informed about your Church; put your minds to work; inquire. Notre Dame, St Johns New York, Georgetown; and there are others. There are many fine professors in these schools but there are a lot professors with views and teaching anti-Christian views. What better place to have Satan teaching are future rulers. Our Bishops have to start speaking up do not be afraid of the press. I have get off my high horse.
Charles Adams

Isn’t it strange to see Protestants who are in agreement with the RCC to a greater extent than many Catholics?

 

[imperial]

What is it that some people don’t get, is trespassing more valuable than life?
And why was it trespassing. Catholics have donated their money, be it for building of churches, buildings school e.t.c. therefore it is also THEIR property
Father Weslin BELONGS to the Catholic Church, he did not trespass, nor did any true catholic. In fact it was their duty to defend the truth.
God bless them. When God calls these people to his kingdom, He will send all those little baby angels to carry their souls into heaven.
All the saints throughout the ages [if alive today] would have stood by the protesters.
It is impossible to support any so called catholic Institution that goes against the foundation of the Catholic Church. Christ died on the cross for all why shouldn’t babies have a right to live. This sickness me to the stomach. On what side of the fence do people think Mother Theresa or Patrio Pio would sit on?
Would they be sitting there clapping for obama when he reads his teleprompter, with Jerkin’s blessings or would they be with the meek and humble defending innocence?

 

[elts1956]

What is it that some people don’t get, is trespassing more valuable than life?
And why was it trespassing. Catholics have donated their money, be it for building of churches, buildings school e.t.c. therefore it is also THEIR property
Father Weslin BELONGS to the Catholic Church, he did not trespass, nor did any true catholic. In fact it was their duty to defend the truth.
God bless them. When God calls these people to his kingdom, He will send all those little baby angels to carry their souls into heaven.
All the saints throughout the ages [if alive today] would have stood by the protesters.
It is impossible to support any so called catholic Institution that goes against the foundation of the Catholic Church. Christ died on the cross for all why shouldn’t babies have a right to live. This sickness me to the stomach. On what side of the fence do people think Mother Theresa or Patrio Pio would sit on?
Would they be sitting there clapping for obama when he reads his teleprompter, with Jerkin’s blessings or would they be with the meek and humble defending innocence?

The problem was/is, Notre Dame as administered by a board of trustees no longer considers itself under the laws of the Church. Have you read about the “Land O Lakes” decision. 1967, I think. That long ago.

 

[reggieM]

Isn’t it strange to see Protestants who are in agreement with the RCC to a greater extent than many Catholics?

That’s a good observation. It is strange, but true nonetheless.

 

[reggieM]

What is it that some people don’t get, is trespassing more valuable than life?
And why was it trespassing. Catholics have donated their money, be it for building of churches, buildings school e.t.c. therefore it is also THEIR property
Father Weslin BELONGS to the Catholic Church, he did not trespass, nor did any true catholic. In fact it was their duty to defend the truth.
God bless them. When God calls these people to his kingdom, He will send all those little baby angels to carry their souls into heaven.
All the saints throughout the ages [if alive today] would have stood by the protesters.
It is impossible to support any so called catholic Institution that goes against the foundation of the Catholic Church. Christ died on the cross for all why shouldn’t babies have a right to live. This sickness me to the stomach. On what side of the fence do people think Mother Theresa or Patrio Pio would sit on?
Would they be sitting there clapping for obama when he reads his teleprompter, with Jerkin’s blessings or would they be with the meek and humble defending innocence?

These are all excellent points and I’m glad you said it that way. Some here have actually argued in favor of the arresting the “tresapassers” as if that was an equivalent issue for ND to be considering. They paid no attention to 90 bishops crying out against the event and they paid no attention to 300,000 Catholics who petitioned against the event. But they did get very concerned about some senior citizens (including one 80 yr old priest) who were praying the rosary on a sidewalk. Now they want to press charges. Some defend this because ND is a “private” school. It’s a school founded and funded by the support of the Catholic people, for the propagation of the Catholic Faith.

Also, ND is supposedly concerned about “law and order” so therefore they put the entire weight of the law against fellow Catholics. But they smile and applaud a pro-abortion politician – and they give him an award.

The awards should go to the pro-lifers who opposed this action.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Look, folks, you have two separate things: A speech and a trespass. No matter what the tenor of the speech, prosecuting the trespass really has nothing to do with the speech. And, with folks ahead of time intending to be arrested, warned and given every opportunity to avoid arrest, should anyone get all teary-eyed about them being prosecuted? Are they facing heavy jail time?

Finally, the end here does not justify the means. It is what the Jesuits condemn as ‘situational ethics’.

 

[reggieM]

Look, folks, you have two separate things: A speech and a trespass. No matter what the tenor of the speech, prosecuting the trespass really has nothing to do with the speech. And, with folks ahead of time intending to be arrested, warned and given every opportunity to avoid arrest, should anyone get all teary-eyed about them being prosecuted? Are they facing heavy jail time?

Finally, the end here does not justify the means. It is what the Jesuits condemn as ‘situational ethics’.

You’re separating the two events as if they are totally unrelated. The Jesuits would call what ND did a sin against the virtue of justice. The event points out clearly the double-standard that the ND administration took. On one hand, praising and awarding a pro-abortion politician. On the other hand, showing no mercy to people praying the rosary.

You’re also whitewashing the problem by claiming that the main issue was “a speech”.

Perhaps you forgot to mention that the university conferred an award on the pro-abortionist. He was given an honorary degree which lifts him up as an exemplar of public life.

ND violated the directives of the Catholic Bishops conference.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

ND violated the directives of the Catholic Bishops conference.

OK, we’re done with that issue. Now, let’s discuss the prosecution for trespassing.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think that Catholics should not send their children to Notre Dame and see if that sends them a message.

Arresting a priest - I was unable to comprehend it, and an elderly one at that.
I mean it was down right disgusting that they awarded a pro abortionist an award - and then arrested a priest.

May Notre Dame see the failings of the fruits they are producing.

Adding the fruits are not from the Holy Spirit.

 

[imperial]

OK, we’re done with that issue. Now, let’s discuss the prosecution for trespassing.

Trespassing? They didn’t trespass it’s their property, case closed.

 

[imperial]

I think that Catholics should not send their children to Notre Dame and see if that sends them a message.

Arresting a priest - I was unable to comprehend it, and an elderly one at that.
I mean it was down right disgusting that they awarded a pro abortionist an award - and then arrested a priest.

May Notre Dame see the failings of the fruits they are producing.

Adding the fruits are not from the Holy Spirit.

Indeed Judas betrayed Jesus for gold and Nd Jenkins betrayed Jesus for a politician and prestige. See people never ever change.
34 'Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set son against father, daughter against mother, daughter-in-law against mother-in-law;
36 a person’s enemies will be the members of his own household.
37 'No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me.

 

[WarriorAngel]

How true, Imperial. great observation.

 

[elts1956]

Trespassing? They didn’t trespass it’s their property, case closed.

I have heard both opinions, not proved yet to me, that NDU is personal property run by a board of lay people and from another source, that it is an open" campus.

All I really know is that NDU has definite rules regarding who protests/appears on Campus. Whoever protests/appears on Campus must FIRST be approved by the powers that be. Although I am Pro Life, especially for babies, I also follow Civil Law, whatever that is in the instance of ND, or any other institution. I can’t get into area 54 either, not even with an application.

 

[elts1956]

Trespassing? They didn’t trespass it’s their property, case closed.

I think that Catholics should not send their children to Notre Dame and see if that sends them a message.

Arresting a priest - I was unable to comprehend it, and an elderly one at that.
I mean it was down right disgusting that they awarded a pro abortionist an award - and then arrested a priest.

May Notre Dame see the failings of the fruits they are producing.

Adding the fruits are not from the Holy Spirit.

I think Notre Dame needs to be kept under pressure. The best way to do that is not give them money, students, or support of any kind until they are once more a Catholic University. Check out the Land O Lakes document of 1967.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I think that Catholics should not send their children to Notre Dame and see if that sends them a message.

Arresting a priest - I was unable to comprehend it, and an elderly one at that.
I mean it was down right disgusting that they awarded a pro abortionist an award - and then arrested a priest.

May Notre Dame see the failings of the fruits they are producing.

Adding the fruits are not from the Holy Spirit.

I think the Pope himself should step in and begin excommunications.

I was reading on lifesitenews that the Catholic something-or other in Boston, Mass. was taking money from pro-abort feminist groups, and even planned barrenhood (parenthood).

 

[elts1956]

I think the Pope himself should step in and begin excommunications.

I was reading on lifesitenews that the Catholic something-or other in Boston, Mass. was taking money from pro-abort feminist groups, and even planned barrenhood (parenthood).

He who shall not be named is keeping busy. Sometimes one will get a peripheral view of his antics, but never a straightforward one. npatrol:

 

[Teelynn]

I think the Pope himself should step in and begin excommunications.

I was reading on lifesitenews that the Catholic something-or other in Boston, Mass. was taking money from pro-abort feminist groups, and even planned barrenhood (parenthood).

Nope, the Pope will not involve himself in the decisions that belong to the Bishops. And unfortunately, not ALL the Bishops agree that ND was wrong in their decision. Only about 1/3 of them. Hmmm…I guess there is only a small minority of “Catholics” who actually believe and follow Catholic teaching. Never really believed that Catholics who adhere to Catholic doctrine are a minortity, but…that’s what it’s starting to look like…and it starts with the Bishops.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Nope, the Pope will not involve himself in the decisions that belong to the Bishops. And unfortunately, not ALL the Bishops agree that ND was wrong in their decision. Only about 1/3 of them. Hmmm…I guess there is only a small minority of “Catholics” who actually believe and follow Catholic teaching. Never really believed that Catholics who adhere to Catholic doctrine are a minortity, but…that’s what it’s starting to look like…and it starts with the Bishops.

Things have gotten out of hand with the apostacy and people going against the RCC teachings within the Church itself.

I think the Holy Father should take his belt to the disobedient children, so to speak. Allowing them to teach error only encourages further rebellion.

 

[reggieM]

Things have gotten out of hand with the apostacy and people going against the RCC teachings within the Church itself.

I think the Holy Father should take his belt to the disobedient children, so to speak. Allowing them to teach error only encourages further rebellion.

I agree. But it’s important to keep the historical context in mind. The Holy See doesn’t just respond to today’s news as if it is actually something new. There is a long history to carry forward – as Christ commanded, to preserve and foster the apostolic tradition.
Part of that history is some many centuries when popes took the belt to disobedient children. I don’t need to remind us that this caused many harsh counter-reactions.
So, while we might get very frustrated with the high level of tolerance that the Holy See shows towards disobedient Catholics, I think we can understand the reasons why punishment is doled out slowly and mildly – over a period of time. The hope is to win people over by negotations, or sometimes leave the harder work to the people at the local level and only intervene when it goes very far out of control.
At the same time, I really think it’s getting to that point in many ways.