Novus Ordo community not okay?

[Armyvet007]

Actually, you’re both right. The Baltimore Catechism was never endorsed by the Vatican, because the original plan was to translate one edition of a European catechism and at the last minute the American bishops decided to change their resource. The Vatican was not pleased. Therefore, it did not give the catechism the label of “Official Catechism for the Church in the United States” which was what the Council of Baltimore was going for. Hence, the bishops had to call it the Baltimore Catechism.

Subsequently, other writers and publishers have put out several catechism called the Baltimore Catechism. All of them follow the same format, Q & A and all of them are Thomistic. All of them have an Impirmatur and a Nihil Obstat. They are free from error. The difference is in wording, order, organization of chapters and references.

My favorite edition is the latest St. Joseph Edition, because it gives you the Q & A but it also gives you other sources, besides Thomas.

For those who question the value of the CCC, let me remind you that the CCC was not meant to be read by the laity. What happened was that the Vatican publisher sold the catechism to an American publisher who put it on the market. Everyone went gaga only to whine and complain two weeks later, because they didn’t understand it.

The reason that they didn’t understand it was that Cardinal Ratzinger, who did the final review was convinced that this was going into the hands of theologians and bishops who would use it as a resource for popular catechisms. If you go to the bookstore on www.usccb.org you will find the
United States Catholic Catechism for Adults. Which is grounded in the CCC, but fills in the gaps with material from scripture, previous catechism and documents. It does exactly what Cardinal Ratzinger wanted the CCC to inspire. There is also the Compendium written by Cardinal Ratzinger himself, which explains for the layman what the CCC is saying.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Br.,

So the CCC I need for my personal use is the US CC for Adults with the Compendium?

 

[Alfonsus]

Br.,

So the CCC I need for my personal use is the US CC for Adults with the Compendium?

Not necessarily. It does not mean “illegal” for laity to have and read CCC. CCC is official document of catholic doctrine, and intended first of all for the bishops. But it is not limited for them only.

The prologue of the CCC said this:

III. The Aim and Intended Readership of the Catechism

11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve “as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries”.15

12 This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis: first of all the bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church. It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the People of God. Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechisms, to priests, and to catechists. It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.

But the CCC is not everyone taste, especially for someone who prefer Q&A format. For this, the Compendium, YouCat or local catechism might be better suitable.

I for one make use of CCC, the Compendium and YouCat. I like them all. But still my favorite is CCC itself, because of its completeness, references, elaborations, quotes.

 

[Megan7]

Dear All,

The SSPX priest meant for 4 traditional catechisms here:

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/master2.htm

Aquinas, Trent, Baltimore and Pius X

Thanks for the link!

PAX

 

[puppy99]

Well, I have copied them into Word file, and print them into 4 books today.

Feel free to download here.

 

[puppy99]

The 1st two, but there may be some errors.

 

[puppy99]

Another two.

 

[Armyvet007]

Not necessarily. It does not mean “illegal” for laity to have and read CCC. CCC is official document of catholic doctrine, and intended first of all for the bishops. But it is not limited for them only.

The prologue of the CCC said this:

But the CCC is not everyone taste, especially for someone who prefer Q&A format. For this, the Compendium, YouCat or local catechism might be better suitable.

I for one make use of CCC, the Compendium and YouCat. I like them all. But still my favorite is CCC itself, because of its completeness, references, elaborations, quotes.

Thanks for your response. I was asking in regards to the intended auidence portion. Would I, as a non-thelogian, be better served with the works Brother mentioned? I personally like the CCC, but some of it goes over my head and I’ve learned that some of it goes over my head without me realizing it.

 

[MissRose73]

I was born after Vatican II. To be told by SSPX or similar on their websites, that I am not allowed to receive sacraments in their churches unless I renounce things/beliefs from the Ordinary Form is not good. I prefer to seek the Extraordinary form Masses that are diocesan or a society like FSSP is what I prefer that welcome Catholics in a state of grace to the Communion rail as an example.

I’ve read a variety of catechisms. The thick CCC is harder to follow. I do like the Baltimore series even if its more traditional. I also have read the US CCC version too which easier to follow. I’ve read some of YouCat, but not enough to make an opinion of it.

 

[PaulinVA]

I like your parish church and I like its webpage. How old is the Church?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Brother, it was completed five - six years ago. One of my daughters was confirmed there. We are a few parishes to the west, but scheduling caused us to go there.

 

[wasserfall]

I was born after Vatican II. To be told by SSPX or similar on their websites, that I am not allowed to receive sacraments in their churches unless I renounce things/beliefs from the Ordinary Form is not good.

Being born after Vatican II has absolutely nothing to do with it. The majority of SSPX priests were born after Vatican II. You imply that being born after Vatican II means that one would naturally prefer the OF, which is not true.

But anyway, I don’t go to SSPX chapels but I have never heard or read that they refuse the sacraments to anybody (except marriage, but that is a special case).

 

[JReducation]

Br.,

So the CCC I need for my personal use is the US CC for Adults with the Compendium?

A lay person can certainly use the CCC. It was not the target audience. Many lay people like it, because they like the notes and the references. The US CC for Adults and the Compendium by Cardinal Ratzinger save you trips to the library.

Brother, it was completed five - six years ago. One of my daughters was confirmed there. We are a few parishes to the west, but scheduling caused us to go there.

I thought I recognized that Church. Now I know. I’m from Manassas. My family lives in Manassas, Stafford, Falls Church and Fairfax.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Mrs_Sally]

A lay person can certainly use the CCC. It was not the target audience. Many lay people like it, because they like the notes and the references. The US CC for Adults and the Compendium by Cardinal Ratzinger save you trips to the library.

I thought I recognized that Church. Now I know. I’m from Manassas. My family lives in Manassas, Stafford, Falls Church and Fairfax.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

We are a parish or two east of Manassas.

Our Mary statue is in front of the school. We’ve got a small St. Francis in the priest’s garden. It’s a wonderful place.

 

[JReducation]

We are a parish or two east of Manassas.

Our Mary statue is in front of the school. We’ve got a small St. Francis in the priest’s garden. It’s a wonderful place.

I knew there was a reason that I like you Mrs. Sally. You’re from God’s country as am I, not from Yankee Land.

And to boot, you have a statue of St. Francis in the rectory garden.

What else can ask for? I’m nominating you for sainthood.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Armyvet007]

A lay person can certainly use the CCC. It was not the target audience. Many lay people like it, because they like the notes and the references. The US CC for Adults and the Compendium by Cardinal Ratzinger save you trips to the library.

LOL. Message received. I’ll get a copy of the works you mentioned. Thank you.

 

[wasserfall]

I knew there was a reason that I like you Mrs. Sally. You’re from God’s country as am I, not from Yankee Land.

Perhaps you will both appreciate this anecdote.

One time as I was driving through Virginia on my way to Washington D.C., I stopped for some coffee in a Waffle House. I was alone and so was sitting at the counter. A young man was the waiter and, asking where I was going, he exclaimed disdainfully “Washington is full of Yankees”.

About that time, a middle aged couple came in and sat down in a booth. As they started talking to each other I recognized that they came from “further south” than Virginia. When the waiter came and asked for their drinks, the woman said “Well ah think ahl have a cherra coke” and the waiter said “I’m sorry ma’am, but we don’t have any cherry coke”. The woman responded “You mean y’all don’t have cherra sirrup to put in the coke?” and he said “no ma’am”. So she said “Ok, then ahl just have a co-cola”.

The waiter went to get the drinks and the woman’s husband leaned over and said quietly “Dear, you have to be more careful. We’re up north now and these yankees do things differently.”

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I knew there was a reason that I like you Mrs. Sally. You’re from God’s country as am I, not from Yankee Land.

And to boot, you have a statue of St. Francis in the rectory garden.

What else can ask for? I’m nominating you for sainthood.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Well, can we wait until I’m dead for Sainthood? But I’ll go in with you if you nominate my pastor!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Perhaps you will both appreciate this anecdote.

One time as I was driving through Virginia on my way to Washington D.C., I stopped for some coffee in a Waffle House. I was alone and so was sitting at the counter. A young man was the waiter and, asking where I was going, he exclaimed disdainfully “Washington is full of Yankees”.

About that time, a middle aged couple came in and sat down in a booth. As they started talking to each other I recognized that they came from “further south” than Virginia. When the waiter came and asked for their drinks, the woman said “Well ah think ahl have a cherra coke” and the waiter said “I’m sorry ma’am, but we don’t have any cherry coke”. The woman responded “You mean y’all don’t have cherra sirrup to put in the coke?” and he said “no ma’am”. So she said “Ok, then ahl just have a co-cola”.

The waiter went to get the drinks and the woman’s husband leaned over and said quietly “Dear, you have to be more careful. We’re up north now and these yankees do things differently.”

Yes, I can always tell when I’m in “real” Virginia because the resturants serve sweet tea. Although, it is becoming very popular up here in the North as well.

 

[ProVobis]

I knew there was a reason that I like you Mrs. Sally. You’re from God’s country as am I, not from Yankee Land.

And to boot, you have a statue of St. Francis in the rectory garden.

What else can ask for? I’m nominating you for sainthood.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

If that doesn’t work, perhaps we can make Oct 4th a national holiday? I hear there are many non-Catholics who are quite fond of St. Francis.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

If that doesn’t work, perhaps we can make Oct 4th a national holiday? I hear there are many non-Catholics who are quite fond of St. Francis.

Yes! That’s an excellent plan!

 

[Melchior_1]

If that doesn’t work, perhaps we can make Oct 4th a national holiday? I hear there are many non-Catholics who are quite fond of St. Francis.

I’m definitely for this, on top of it being the Feast of St. Francis but October 4th is also my birthday!!