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Triumpha
Guest
Orthocath.
I agree! (I also grew up with the New Mass)
Triumpha.
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I agree! (I also grew up with the New Mass)
Triumpha.
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oat_soda
Guest
don’t you think that the aditional readings of scripture in the vernacular is an improvement? it’s not like God needs to hear the readings, they are for our benefit. but other then that, i agree. and incidentally, the novus ordo mass can be looked at as an experiment as we know how much it changes, and i think the church views it this way in a sense.
but i doubt you can all get priests to learn or say the mass in latin. it will take time if that were to ever happen and even the pope said he doesn’t think it’s a good idea.
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Iohannes
Guest
oat soda:
Should all priest be able to speak latin? After all it is in Canon law that they are required to learn latin? It should not be difficult right?
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bear06
Guest
Interesting. Hadn’t read MD in awhile so I was reading and found this:
58. It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone ** enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification**.[50] Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship.[51]** Private individuals, therefore, even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters**, involving as they do the religious life of Christian society along with the exercise of the priesthood of Jesus Christ and worship of God; concerned as they are with the honor due to the Blessed Trinity, the Word Incarnate and His august mother and the other saints, and with the salvation of souls as well. For the same reason no **private person ** has any authority to regulate external practices of this kind, which are intimately bound up with Church discipline and with the order, unity and concord of the Mystical Body and frequently even with the integrity of Catholic faith itself
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TOME
Guest
I believe all one has to do is to read the Preamble to the GIRM to understand that the Novus Ordo is not something new nor a hybrid. It is the natural development from the Church’s understanding of itself and its role mandated by Christ to Evangelize the world. Part of this Evangelization is the way we worship which has undergone developmental changes from Apostolic times.
Along with this preamble, I believe serious study of the Decree on the Sacred Liturgy (I forget the offical title) is necessary because it form the bases of the Liturgical Reform that developed from Vat II.
Without a knowledge of at lease these two works, I don’t see how anyone can offer just criticism of the Novus Ordo, because by doing so one is actually speaking from an ill informed knowledge of the Liturgical life and practices of the Church which, in my opinion borders on ignorance. For example, one thing is taught by these two documents is that our present day liturgy wasn’t developed in a vaccuum but is deeply rooted in the liturgical life of the Church from the Church’s beginning and that the liturgy is far more than just witnessing a priest following a set of rules called Rubrics.
Along with this preamble, I believe serious study of the Decree on the Sacred Liturgy (I forget the offical title) is necessary because it form the bases of the Liturgical Reform that developed from Vat II.
Without a knowledge of at lease these two works, I don’t see how anyone can offer just criticism of the Novus Ordo, because by doing so one is actually speaking from an ill informed knowledge of the Liturgical life and practices of the Church which, in my opinion borders on ignorance. For example, one thing is taught by these two documents is that our present day liturgy wasn’t developed in a vaccuum but is deeply rooted in the liturgical life of the Church from the Church’s beginning and that the liturgy is far more than just witnessing a priest following a set of rules called Rubrics.
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TNT
Guest
Are you saying that anyone (even countless well qualified Liturgical historians) who criticize the Pauline mass are bordering on ignorance??
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/image00111.gif
** Baptism means immersion!!!**
Ignorance would be someone who thinks that the mass whether Pauline or Pius V is “just” …a priest following a set of rubrics! But, rubrics are the intended safeguards to the offering of Mass. Not that anyone follows them anyway.
http://www.barricksinsurance.com/image00111.gif
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bear06
Guest
Is this where you are going to whip out the quote from the then Cardinal Ratzinger? Come on, you know you were gonna do it.TNT said:
It’s interesting that the Holy Father has never suggested that we go back to the Tridentine Mass to rememdy the problems in the Church.
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pnewton
Guest
No. We got penguins instead.
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bear06
Guest
Well, of course, we did. You know T would lie in wait until some unsuspecting soul said yes to his question and then he would throw out the great “A-ha! So you’re calling the Pope ignorant!” and pounce on the unsuspecting prey. The penguins were just a distraction.
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TNT
Guest
Is this where you are going to whip out the quote from the then Cardinal Ratzinger? Come on, you know you were gonna do it.
It’s interesting that the Holy Father has never suggested that we go back to the Tridentine Mass to rememdy the problems in the Church.**And he never will! **No modernist worth his salt would propose the obvious answer. Perpetual mutation is the only option left. That’s the decision like it or not.
Actually, I just made up a post to put in my little video!
I posted it on an “IMMERSION ONLY” COC discussuion board. I’ll see the reaction tomorrow.
ps.
Who’s cardinal ratinger? Was this one of the penquins? He wasn’t one of the Penguins was he? He’s one of the Penquins? Which Penguin was he?
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TNT
Guest
Actually, they are the center piece of my otherwise innane post.Well, of course, we did. You know T would lie in wait until some unsuspecting soul said yes to his question and then he would throw out the great “A-ha! So you’re calling the Pope ignorant!” and pounce on the unsuspecting prey. The penguins were just a distraction.
Reminds me of me and my wife (on the right.)
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TNT
Guest
Like that’s a big revelation. What’d you expect from a bird brain?
That is the ultimate “BAPTISM=IMMERSION” jab.
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TNT
Guest
Next time you mess up my Bear trap, yur gonna get dunked in the Holy Spirit.Is this where you are going to whip out the quote from the then Cardinal Ratzinger? Come on, you know you were gonna do it.
You know T would lie in wait until some unsuspecting soul said yes to his question and then he would throw out the great “A-ha! So you’re calling the Pope ignorant!” and pounce on the unsuspecting prey. The penguins were just a distraction.
Remember, even you don’t know all my tricks.
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allhers
Guest
bow to that living authority or cease to be Catholic.----I think I liked that part the best (taken from 
—
www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/QUOPIUS.HTM
—www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/QUOPIUS.HTM
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pnewton
Guest
I thought of, “DId you know there is a penguin on your post?” but I thought that was a little too Monty Python-ish.
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Adonis33
Guest
I like penguins.
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TOME
Guest
TNT, I am sorry that you did not read my post thoroughly enough because even the part of my post that you quoted showes who I was writing about. And yes, if there are well qualified Liturgical historians who do not know the contents of the two documents I named, then what I wrote applies to them as well.
As for my comments on the rubrics, it was written in reactions to what I see quite often in these threads, namely, constant references to the role of the priest, presiding of the Liturgy, yet little or no mention at all of the responsibility all the faithful have to consciously and actively participate in the Mass by virture of our share in Christ’s Royal Priesthood we received in Baptism.
As for my comments on the rubrics, it was written in reactions to what I see quite often in these threads, namely, constant references to the role of the priest, presiding of the Liturgy, yet little or no mention at all of the responsibility all the faithful have to consciously and actively participate in the Mass by virture of our share in Christ’s Royal Priesthood we received in Baptism.
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TNT
Guest
Sorry that you are sorry.
I sold my Royal Priesthood for a Audi 4a convertible. I wish you’d have mention it’s necessity before I did such a selfish thing.
This is pretty close to the infamous Oxymoron.
I am not a Liturgical expert but I have read the GIRM and it’s pretty loaded with “wishy washy” alternative ambiguities. And, for that I am sorry.
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RC_Traditional
Guest
The NO is a protestant version of communion with the help of 6 Protestant ministers who are from Taigi community in France invited by PPVI and later approved by Cardinal Bugnini . This cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church was eventually deposed from his post by the Vatican when to their horror found that he was a Freemason. A cardinal name Ottaviani was appointed by the Pope to review the legitimacy of the NO liturgy and he summarized the whole notion of the NO as a radical departure from whole and in part Catholic theology. No Roman Catholic conscience is obliged to attend this dangerous radical theology and liturgy. Only the Latin liturgy binds Catholic conscience as there is no danger to novelty or misapplication with a Protesatnt bent. Even in the valid conscecration is rendered invalid by the words “for many” changed to “for all” which corrupts the proper, valid form. Lets be sober and vigilant and keep our consciences Catholic on this proper matter, form and intention from being led astray. 
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pnewton
Guest
RC Traditional:
No. It is those who reject the Church, 500 years ago, or today, that is more aptly name a protester, and is likely to find himself outside the Holy Catholic Church.
Get a clue phone. Protestants do not have the Real Presence and the current Mass does. There is a quantum difference.
edit
I just noticed you had six posts here. You probably do not know this is a Catholic website and faithful to the Holy Father, as we were to his predecessor, Pope John Paul the great, as well as all popes and all councils.
Everytime I here this type of silliness, I think how incredibly illogical this is. “Protestant?” Is the church protesting against itself? The current Mass is the Mass of the church. How in the world can it be what it is not?
No. It is those who reject the Church, 500 years ago, or today, that is more aptly name a protester, and is likely to find himself outside the Holy Catholic Church.
Get a clue phone. Protestants do not have the Real Presence and the current Mass does. There is a quantum difference.
edit
I just noticed you had six posts here. You probably do not know this is a Catholic website and faithful to the Holy Father, as we were to his predecessor, Pope John Paul the great, as well as all popes and all councils.
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