Novus Ordo Missae - Good for the Church?

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netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
It must be the current one that I heard about.
Maybe B16 just wants to keep his friends close and his enemies closer.

Seems the MC is doing a good job now.

JPII was so spiritual, I really feel he saw the best in everyone.
(My hubby is the same way when it comes to judgements on motivations.)

People took advange of that, IMO.
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Absolutely! No one can argue that the lady shouldn’t have covered her chest. But to blame it on the pope, who just got off the plane, well…but you see, some (read “most”) of the traditionalist sites (like Traditio, the Remnant, Marian Horvat’s site, Novus Ordo Watch, etc.) where you can find the whinning don’t bother telling the whole story. They play fast and loose with context. That’s why I try to be careful where I invest credibility.
 
I understand the question but IMHO it really misses the point. It is not a question of the Novus Ordo being good or bad for the church.

The real issue is the mindset that came out of the council that produced the Novus Ordo. That without question has been an absolute disaster for the church both here in the U.S. and Canada and in Europe.

Look at the Archdiocese of Boston. It is imploding before our very eyes and why? Because liberalism, dissent, and secularism (symbolized rightly or wrongly by the Novus Ordo) were allowed to spread like a cancer without any attempt to check it either by the Archbishop(s) or by the Vatican.

Our Saviour said it best. “The tree is known by its fruit”.
 
Titus1728 said:
I understand the question but IMHO it really misses the point. It is not a question of the Novus Ordo being good or bad for the church.

The real issue is the mindset that came out of the council that produced the Novus Ordo. That without question has been an absolute disaster for the church both here in the U.S. and Canada and in Europe.

Look at the Archdiocese of Boston. It is imploding before our very eyes and why? Because liberalism, dissent, and secularism (symbolized rightly or wrongly by the Novus Ordo) were allowed to spread like a cancer without any attempt to check it either by the Archbishop(s) or by the Vatican.

Our Saviour said it best. “The tree is known by its fruit”.
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The “spirit of Vatican II” is vastly different from “Vatican II.” The misuse or abuse of the NO Mass is different from the Mass Itself.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
The “spirit of Vatican II” is vastly different from “Vatican II.” The misuse or abuse of the NO Mass is different from the Mass Itself.
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I think what he means is…

Vatican II is the tree…the Spirit of Vatican II is the fruit.

The Novus Ordo is the tree…the misused and abused Mass is the fruit.

The tree and the fruit are also vastle different things…but are very much connected.
 
Missa_Solemnis said:
I think what he means is…

Vatican II is the tree…the Spirit of Vatican II is the fruit.

The Novus Ordo is the tree…the misused and abused Mass is the fruit.

The tree and the fruit are also vastle different things…but are very much connected.
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Any liturgy can be abused, any council misapplied.
 
The cardinals of Vatican II violated one of the cardinal (pardon the pun) rules of life. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

The much ballyhooed “reforms” of the council did only one thing as far as I can see. Spread dissent, corruption and confusion among not only the clergy but the faithful as well.
 
Titus1728 said:
The cardinals of Vatican II violated one of the cardinal (pardon the pun) rules of life. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

The much ballyhooed “reforms” of the council did only one thing as far as I can see. Spread dissent, corruption and confusion among not only the clergy but the faithful as well.
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Amen I say to you.

and lol I say to the pun.
 
The much ballyhooed “reforms” of the council did only one thing as far as I can see. Spread dissent, corruption and confusion among not only the clergy but the faithful as well.
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🙂 ok ballyhooed is funny!! Ya know Titus, I have to agree with you after coming on here and seeing the arguing that takes place between these two fractions of our Church :rolleyes:
 
Thank you. I am glad that my thoughts are proving persuasive. However, I wish I did not have to write them. You are correct Anamchara that the church is riven with factions, perhaps even schism is not to strong a word.

I think that if the church got back to the fundamentals that would go a long way towards solving alot of the problems it is currently experiencing.

Sometimes, though it gets discouraging. I emailed my local bishop asking if they were considering expanding the offerings of the pre-1962 latin mass. The response I got from the bishop’s secretary was not encouraging.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
I want (and have) and EWTN style Holy Mass.
Thank You Lord!
Is that what you are speaking of?
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No , the 1965 Missal was released immediately after the Council. It was a the TLM with a few minor changes(allowance for vernacular in parts of the liturgy where it would be appropiate, canon was chanted I beleive instead of said silently, extra reading for OT and I think the new lectionary was used?, and a few other minor changes). The changes from the 62 to the 65 were perfectly organic as far as development goes and were not so radical. The Psuedo spirt of VII , from what I have read (I wasn’t there 😛 ) appearntly caused people to ignore the rubrics even then! It just went downhill from there until the 67 missal and then finally the 69 missal and then liturgical chaos. (Which as I said before, can’t necessarily be blamed on the text, but more on those saying the text…)
 
JKirkLVNV said:
of the traditionalist sites (like Traditio, the Remnant, Marian Horvat’s site, Novus Ordo Watch, etc.)
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lol!

You mean sedevacantist sites? Even if they don’t openly admit it, I have my suspicions.

I read Traditio for laughs. The “Novus Ordo Service” gallery is disturbing, and they make a lot of good points. In fact, all of them have interesting concepts and ideas that make sense, but even I pick and choose because they can go off the deep end.

For my news I stick to Rorate Caeli or Father Z’s blog.
 
Argh. I love the fact that people can distort even relatively simple statements.

If I was cynical I would probably suspect it was intentional.
 
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