Now Maybe More Lutherans Will Come Home to Rome

[gurneyhalleck1]

An interesting fact that came through was that 66.6% was the vote tally in favor of letting the gays and lesbians become ‘ministers.’ 666 and a fallen cross starts to really look BBBBAAAAAD! lol

 

[hobbitofny]

When I share Communion with anyone, I am sharing in the Body and Blood of our Lord, his gracious gift, and not each and every belief that fellow partakers of the Sacrament may hold.

I recommend to you, the book Elert, Werner. Eucharist and Church Fellowship in the First Four Centuries. N.E. Nagel (trans). (Concordia Publishing House, St. Louis, MO, 1966). It is well worth the time to read it.

 

[firstmode]

Um, he just said that he wasn’t.

Thanks for defending me. (Though I am a she not a he) I am LCMS, so I am certainly not for having homosexual clergy or allowing them to marry in our churches. I am saddened and appalled by these events and how it is being reported as “lutherans” deciding to do this rather than just the ELCA.

Thanks again bluegoat.

Hey Alix, you may want to go and change your denomination under your religion tag in your name bar above your posts from Lutheran to Lutheran LCMS.

It may benefit you in the future on this board to ensure people do not make assumptions about you because you have not given enough information.

God Bless you,

-Brad

 

[Old_Convert]

Dear ambrosegirl84:

Don’t give up!

We do not worship Mary; we honor her as the mother of Jesus. We are not saved by works; we are saved by grace, but being saved leads us to do good works. Read the short book of James for some quick answers.

Once you get into RCIA, all of the questions like these will be answered many times over. I became a Catholic when I was 23. My Lutheran parents and grandparents didn’t like it much either, but I’ve been a Catholic for almost 40 years, and I’ve never regreted a minute of it!

The Catholic church CANNOT change and follow these modern so-called “theologians” down the road to perdiition. Jesus promised to be with His Church until the end of time and sent the Holy Spirit to “lead it into all truth.” That is why the “magisterium”–the teaching authority of the Pope and Bishops–is such a comfort. Welcome home to the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ on the Rock of Peter. I’ll be praying for you! :clapping:

 

[gcnuss]

Glad to have found this thread! I was born-and-raised ELCA Lutheran, The church I grew up with isn’t associated with the ELCA anymore (we were “too small” so have been able to keep going), and now I don’t want to be, either.

For several years I’ve been trying to stay in the ELCA, thinking, (with the encouragement of my brother-in-law who’s a conservative ELCA pastor) “maybe we conservatives just need to step up and try for change within the ELCA.”

(snip)

I don’t know how to respond to this…as I think God is calling me to become Catholic, but I don’t know how to answer these questions!

Well anyway, the long-short of it is that I think a sizeable percentage of ELCA Lutherans are saddened by this turn of events, I’m thinking there’ll be a split (imagine that…another split in the Lutheran church …) and I’m seriously looking for a traditional church that seems to be guided by the Holy Spirit (Catholic or LCMS?).

Ambrosegirl,

My prayers are with you as you seek to know God’s will for you. As an ELCA pastor, I would hope that your brother-in-law’s counsel might assist you, but I can understand your frustration and dismay with the ELCA. Trust in the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Should that lead you to the LCMS or the Catholic Church, you can be assured that God will be with you on your journey.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Glad to have found this thread! I was born-and-raised ELCA Lutheran, The church I grew up with isn’t associated with the ELCA anymore (we were “too small” so have been able to keep going), and now I don’t want to be, either.

For several years I’ve been trying to stay in the ELCA, thinking, (with the encouragement of my brother-in-law who’s a conservative ELCA pastor) “maybe we conservatives just need to step up and try for change within the ELCA.”

Well, the vote on Wednesday was a sham. 29 people were out for lunch when they suddenly decided to vote on the sexuality statement. My relatives are just sick over the results, and so am I.

I moved to a new community a couple years ago and have been very slow in finding a church. My boyfriend was baptized Catholic and knows that it’s very important to me that we find a church. So we’ve been going to the Catholic church and are planning to take RCIA classes.

My family hasn’t been so supportive, however. Every time I mention it I hear about the abuse scandals, that “the Catholics have changed too, so they’ll probably be going down the same road…” “they worship Mary,” “are saved by works,” etc.

I don’t know how to respond to this…as I think God is calling me to become Catholic, but I don’t know how to answer these questions!

Well anyway, the long-short of it is that I think a sizeable percentage of ELCA Lutherans are saddened by this turn of events, I’m thinking there’ll be a split (imagine that…another split in the Lutheran church …) and I’m seriously looking for a traditional church that seems to be guided by the Holy Spirit (Catholic or LCMS?).

God Bless!

here this might help you. lots of info to answer those who do not know the CC.

thecatholictreasurechest.com/index.htm

 

[Norminha]

ambrosegirl

My boyfriend was baptized Catholic and knows that it’s very important to me that we find a church. So we’ve been going to the Catholic church and are planning to take RCIA classes.

The Holy Spirit has sent your boyfriend to guide you to the Truth that eventually will set you FREE. Free to witness the fullness of Revelation. WELCOME HOME!!!

My family hasn’t been so supportive, however. Every time I mention it I hear about the abuse scandals, that "the Catholics have changed too, so they’ll probably be going down the same road…" “they worship Mary,” “are saved by works,” etc.

No beginning is easy, unfortunately, but with God’s grace, nothing is impossible. Jesus said that He didn’t come to bring peace but division among people. Parents against children and so on. The answer: pray, pray and pray more.
"Depart from me Lord for I am a sinful man." exclaimed Simon when he realized Who his Master was. It was the humility of a sinful man the Lord used to appoint as the visible head of His Church and all his Apostles were sinful but their hearts were moved by the Holy Spirit and Christ used those gifts to accomplish His Mission. He could choose the magistrates of the Temple but He chose simple, rough and big sinners to be His Disciples. Yes, 2,000 years of scandals, disappointments, protests, persecutions, you name it, but as Jesus promised to Peter “the gates of hell will not prevail against it.” so it happens and it’ll be until the glorious coming of our Lord. Only God knows how many more struggles the Church has to endure but we have the absolute assurance of Christ to be with Her to the end. The Church is Holy, not because of Her members but because of Her Founder. She can’t teach error because the Holy Spirit protects Her from doing it.
You know in your heart that Catholics or anyone who claims to be a Christian can worship other than God. Catholics don’t worship Mary but have a great place of Honor in the Church for the Mother of God and Savior. It is through Mary, we can know better Jesus; who else can know better the son than his mother? The role of our Blessed Mother is to guide us closer toward her Son, she doesn’t keep anything for herself. She was the beginning of Christianity, when she said “I am the handmade of the Lord; be it done unto me according to thy Word.” She didn’t understand how this could be but, in total trust in God she responded “yes.” and that yes took her all the way to Calvary to the end of the most important event in history of mankind, the death of her Son -the destruction of our death. This, clearly teaches me that Mary, the Mother of my Savior is also my spiritual mother.
Sacred Scriptures teaches us that man is not saved by faith alone but also by works. “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” (James 3, 21) James continues in 22 "You see that faith was active along with his works…"

I don’t know how to respond to this…as I think God is calling me to become Catholic, but I don’t know how to answer these questions!

We can’t hear God’s call if we don’t shut the world around us and invite the Holy Spirit to fill our souls, in complete silence and let His wisdom work inside us. The Archangel Gabriel told Mary that “with God, nothing is impossible.” when He announced her that her cousin, St. Elizabeth, was also pregnant, in her old age. God loves you so much that He is inviting you, personally. It is up to you to accept or decline His invitation, which is love and mercy itself.
Have the assurance that we, all the members of this Forum are praying for the wisdom of God to descend upon you and guide you to the TRUTH.
I’ll add your name as I did of all of our fellow brethren, whose hearts are pierced by the sword, to my list of petitions to place it before the Blessed Sacrament, where I pray for the sincere conversion of heart of all my brothers and sisters around the world. This was the request of our Blessed Mother in Fatima, Portugal to pray for all the children of God. As you can see, our Blessed Mother is busy asking our co-operation in saving souls.
May the Peace of Jesus Christ descend and remain with you for ever!!

 

[ambrosegirl84]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! :tiphat:

 

[Sonny1954]

This latest decision by the ELCA may send some Lutherans toward Roman Catholicism. I personally think it more likely that, if they decided to leave their donomination, they will give the ECUSA a closer look. It some ways that would be a shorter “leap” for them. And Lutherans were the first Protestants, something which many of them take pride in.

Tangentially, I read frequently on the Beliefnet.com site that Roman Catholics are leaving for the Episcopal Church in steady numbers. I don’t know how to verify this. I hope it’s not true. But there are alot of people there who claim to be what they call “XRCs”.

Another possibility is that disaffected ELCA Lutherans might follow the Protestant tradition of forming a new denomination over an important dispute. Who knows?

 

[Bluegoat]

Tangentially, I read frequently on the Beliefnet.com site that Roman Catholics are leaving for the Episcopal Church in steady numbers. I don’t know how to verify this. I hope it’s not true. But there are alot of people there who claim to be what they call “XRCs”.
?

It’s not scientific, but I have met a fair number of RCs that have become Anglican or Episcopalian. They seem to fall into two groups.

Group 1, the largest, have left because they don’t like RC policies on birth control, gays, etc, but find the Anglican church familiar stylistically.

Then there are a few who become traditional Anglicans. Their issues seem to be more with things like the nature of papal authority, or other specific doctrinal issues. Sometimes, they seem to be attracted by the liturgy or music, which they found lacking in their local RC church.

 

[John_Larocque]

I wonder if the Orthodox could do more to promote the Western liturgy and attract disenfranchised Anglican and Lutherans. The Antiochian Orthodox Church seemed to be doing that with some success, though I understand that many who enter a Western rite eventually move to the Eastern rite.

I suppose some might cause offense, but I personally consider “Western Orthodoxy” a liturgical fad. Down the road, I see many of these parishes reverting to the rites of Constantinople.

I didn’t see a reference to Ottoman rule earlier, but before the advent of militant atheist communism, Orthodoxy had to co-exist with the Islamic Caliphate in the Ottoman empire (now Turkey). Under the caliphate, people paid an unbeliever tax because they choose not to be Muslims. The Islamic rulers could depose, and often did, the leaders of the church. On several occasions, some were martyred.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Martyr
orthodoxwiki.org/Ottoman_rule_and_Eastern_Christianity
orthodoxwiki.org/Gregory_V_of_Constantinople

 

[Harpazo]

I suppose some might cause offense, but I personally consider “Western Orthodoxy” a liturgical fad. Down the road, I see many of these parishes reverting to the rites of Constantinople.

I didn’t see a reference to Ottoman rule earlier, but before the advent of militant atheist communism, Orthodoxy had to co-exist with the Islamic Caliphate in the Ottoman empire (now Turkey). Under the caliphate, people paid an unbeliever tax because they choose not to be Muslims. The Islamic rulers could depose, and often did, the leaders of the church. On several occasions, some were martyred.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Martyr
orthodoxwiki.org/Ottoman_rule_and_Eastern_Christianity
orthodoxwiki.org/Gregory_V_of_Constantinople

I don’t know. It seems to be fairly successful. The Protestants that come in are allowed to choose from many liturgies, most of which have been quashed out by Rome. For example, some Western Orthodox parishes in France use the Divine Liturgy of St. Germanus, others in the U.S. use the DL of St. Gregory (which is basically the TLM, but in English) or the DL of St. Ambrose (Ambrosian rite liturgy). I think there is even a Spanish Orthodox parish in New York City that uses the Mozarabic Liturgy, but in Spanish.

When Episcopalians convert and want to maintain their traditions, they generally use the DL of St. Tikhon, which is the Book of Common Prayer, but made Orthodox. They keep the traditional fasts that the Roman Church has abandoned and commune children.

I do not have a problem with the Western Orthodox at all. I assume that eventually they will have their own Bishops, but that will come when there are more Western Orthodox parishes and faithful. There are several former Lutheran parishes that have become Orthodox and retained a Western liturgy. I suppose we’ll have to wait and see what the Lord’s will is for them. I pray they’ll go Orthodox or Catholic. They need to get the Sacraments.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[ChantalM]

First things first:

ambrosegirl and TristanCross, WELCOME HOME!! It has been a long journey through it all, but I was where you are now, disgusted with the state of the church. I converted 4 yrs ago from Lutheranism to Catholicism, and it has been a wild ride ever since. It is so frustrating watching the church you grew up in subdivide itself to pieces. Even the Eucharist is different now, and it causes my mom and I now more and more grief. She believes it is the same, and on the advice of my former priest (love him, but he is soooo liberal) believes I can receive at the Lutheran church every so often, whereas I know in my heart I can’t.

Honestly though, why am I NOT surprised at the turn of events in the ELCA. My mom is a Lutheran minister, and my dad, my sister and my brother-in-law (in Kentucky) are all Lutheran. I wouldn’t be surprised, as some people have said, if disaffected ELCA members started their own denomination. When in doubt, start your own denomination. To be honest, I wish more came home to Rome, but if they’re anything like my own mother (stubborn to the core), they won’t, by and large, swim the Tiber. They’ll “protest” to the end, and no one can tell them what to do. These circumstances make me very grateful and glad I converted when I did. It seems to me Protestants will do anything but swim the Tiber, if provoked, even if everything is pointing in that direction. I prayed the Rosary for my Lutheran family I don’t know how many times, but it’s in God’s time, not ours.

Blessings,
Chantal

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Chantal M,

**You wrote: ** *I wouldn’t be surprised, as some people have said, if disaffected ELCA members started their own denomination. *​

Yes, that is such a tendency of the more or less faithful in demoninations when controversy sets in, to “start their own denomination.” It just never works for long. In the case of Lutheranism there are four matrices that always end up warping any denominational manifestation of Lutheranism: pietism, liberalism, fashion, and eccentricity in interpreting the Lutheran Confessions. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (E.L.C.A.) and its sister denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, receive the most attention for their blatent liberalism in the matter of ordaining hussies and gays.

However, pietism, and liberal compromise, plus faddism in worship, are undermining the sects of the old Synodical Conference (which was in error at its very onset regarding its weirdly sub-Lutheran “take” soteriologically on Justification), most notably the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod L.C.M.S.) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (W.E.L.S.); hussy and gay ordination eventually will beset them, especially the L.C.M.S. The Lutheran Confessions are never enough to stem the tide of drift in any Lutheran group. Lutherans quarrel over the interpretation and over the meaning of the Confessions, just as they and all Protestants and sectaries fight over the interpretation of the Bible. There is no solid ground under their feet, whether they are the E.L.C.A., the L.C.M.S., the W.E.L.S. or any of the many splinter groups. Nothing replaces the Catholic Faith and Holy Tradition, which sustain the unity, even in times of stress, of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Eventually Lutherans (myself included) come to realise the vanity of keeping hope in Lutheranism and come to embrace Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Jerry Parker

 

[wisdomseeker]

Chantal M,

**You wrote: ** *I wouldn’t be surprised, as some people have said, if disaffected ELCA members started their own denomination. *​

Yes, that is such a tendency of the more or less faithful in demoninations when controversy sets in, to “start their own denomination.” It just never works for long. In the case of Lutheranism there are four matrices that always end up warping any denominational manifestation of Lutheranism: pietism, liberalism, fashion, and eccentricity in interpreting the Lutheran Confessions. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (E.L.C.A.) and its sister denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, receive the most attention for their blatent liberalism in the matter of ordaining hussies and gays.

However, pietism, and liberal compromise, plus faddism in worship, are undermining the sects of the old Synodical Conference (which was in error at its very onset regarding its weirdly sub-Lutheran “take” soteriologically on Justification), most notably the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod L.C.M.S.) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (W.E.L.S.); hussy and gay ordination eventually will beset them, especially the L.C.M.S. The Lutheran Confessions are never enough to stem the tide of drift in any Lutheran group. Lutherans quarrel over the interpretation and over the meaning of the Confessions, just as they and all Protestants and sectaries fight over the interpretation of the Bible. There is no solid ground under their feet, whether they are the E.L.C.A., the L.C.M.S., the W.E.L.S. or any of the many splinter groups. Nothing replaces the Catholic Faith and Holy Tradition, which sustain the unity, even in times of stress, of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Eventually Lutherans (myself included) come to realise the vanity of keeping hope in Lutheranism and come to embrace Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Jerry Parker

i dont understand the essence of Ecunemism. really. as long as man hold the Bible in their hands, there will be plenty of self made authority to continue to make up churches based on their enterpretation of Scriptures. what i want to happen is that the CC be open arms to any one who want to come to the Church. learn from her and accept all she teaches faithfully. i dont believe that self made churches is ever going to stop. i think it must feel good for them, to believe they are really expert in Scriptures and have authority over others. i am in no way criticize anyone or their religion or even trying to point out anything wrong about them. just stating the facts.

19. The Blessed Virgin Mary is the model of ecclesial communion in faith, in charity and in union with Christ.[79] “Eternally present in the mystery of Christ,”[80] she is, in the midst of the apostles, at the very heart of the Church at her birth[81] and of the Church of all ages. Indeed, “the Church was congregated in the upper part (of the cenacle) with Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. We cannot therefore speak of the Church unless Mary, the mother of the Lord, is present there, with the Lord’s brethren.”[82]
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfcomm.htm

:byzsoc:

 

[josie_L]

An interesting fact that came through was that 66.6% was the vote tally in favor of letting the gays and lesbians become ‘ministers.’ 666 and a fallen cross starts to really look BBBBAAAAAD! lol

Maybe the bent cross was a sign from the evil one who is bent on destroying Christianity.

 

[juls0621]

I have been an ELCA member for a little over ten years. I was born and raised a Catholic. I feel a yearning to come home to the Catholic church. The recent events in the ELCA have disturbed me deeply. I am a parent to a five year old son and I will not raise him in a church that has clearly abandoned the Word of God. My husband is a life-long ELCA. I have expressed my concern and wishes to leave the church and he seems to be supportive and understanding, although I don’t know if is yet willing to convert to Catholicism.

My question to Catholics out there: How do I join my local Catholic church? What if I was not married in the Catholic church - can I still be a member? Does my son have to be re-baptised in the Catholic church?

I feel like the Holy Spirit is strongly leading me back to the Catholic church and I want to follow this lead…and gather the answers to my questions. I have a phone call in to a priest who was my childhood priest when I was in Catholic grade school for counsel, but he is away. I do not want to enroll my son in Sunday School at the ELCA. I know that each ELCA church can decide to hire the gay pastors, but it is the point that they are the governing body of the entire church and have ascribed to this secular belief that a life committed to sin is okay. Sexually active gays leading churches? I am dumbfounded.

 

[Old_Convert]

Dear juls0621:

I’m not a priest, but I don’t think it would be too difficult for you to come home to the Catholic Church. The first thing you should do is call the Catholic Church closest to your home and make an appointment to speak with a priest. Don’t wait for the priest from your childhood to come home to get started. Whatever priest it is, I can assure you of one thing–he will be overjoyed to see you! He will explain everything you need to do and help you in any way he can.

I think that on your part as long as you were baptized a Catholic, made your First Communion and were Confirmed, all you would have to do is make a good confession. Just tell the priest you to go confession to that you want to come back to the Church, and he will help you make a good confession. If your son was baptized in the Lutheran Church, the Church may accept that as a valid baptism. If the priest is not sure his baptism is valid, then he will be baptized “conditionally.” In this kind of baptism, the priest says, “If you are not baptized, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” If you married your husband in the Catholic Church, all should be well. If you were married in a Lutheran Church–and neither of you had a previous marriage–the priest will probably want to bless your marriage in the Catholic Church. These are all very joyful occasions and nothing at all to be worried about. If you were married in the Lutheran Church and one or both of you were previously married, things will be more complicated, but the priest will be able to help you here, too.

Now for the most important thing to say: WELCOME HOME!!! :clapping::extrahappy::dancing:

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

As a former ELCA clergyman and now a Orthodox layman. The ELCA changes have been coming for years. I have strong roots in Norway. Home is where I find the faith of St. Olaf expressed in all its fullness and without change. I have returned home.

Hi. I’m just getting to know Norway. I’m reading “Kristin Lavensdatter” by Sigrid Unset. Facinating book and rich in the history of medeival Norway. From her descriptions and the devotion of the people, they, and St. Olaf, seem to be Catholics. I’m not sure of that since some of the priests have children (but no wives), so it’s unclear. What do you say?

 

[Jerry_Parker]

juls0621,

**You wrote: ** I am a parent to a five year old son and I will not raise him in a church that has clearly abandoned the Word of God.​

Yes, that is a point “where the rubber meets the road”, isn’t it? One can put up, personally speaking, with one’s own local parish if it is in good hands and is not under too much pressure from the denomination that is going amok, but what of one’s children (and those of others, by extension)? Who knows what sort of parish of the same denomination (E.L.C.A. in this case) they will end up in as they grow up and move from one place to another? It is best for their sake (as well as for yours) to leave the denomination altogehter than to take such risks for their spiritual future.

Jerry Parker