Now the Lutherans

[Scott_Lafrance]

Richardols:

Some of it is. E.g., Protestant doctrine about an omnipotent triune God, about Jesus Christ as Redeemer and Saviour, about an afterlife, Heaven and Hell, about conforming ourselves to the will of God, is just as good as our doctrine. Indeed, we share those beliefs with them!

What about the ministerial priesthood, the sacramental life, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, the salvic efficacy of baptism, the necessity of the Magisterium, the fact the Sacred Tradition is coequal to Sacred Scripture, etc…

 

[FightingFat]

aimee:

There is a difference between homosexuals and homosexuality…so as a Catholic…I don’t exclude the ‘person’…

you know the old but true…hate the sin… love the sinner…

cest moi,
A

I saw a great episode of ER the other night (not my thing, but my wife’s a paediatric nurse so she has to watch anything medical). Weaver’s mum turned up at the hospital to see her- her real mum. It became obvious that she was quite religious (said Jesus alot) and Weaver couldn’t pretend she wasn’t gay. It was very moving. The mother used much of the same arguments used here quite often but Weaver said this is who I am, does God exclude me because of who I am? I would have to say he doesn’t. Anyone else see it?

 

[Richardols]

Scott_Lafrance:

What about the ministerial priesthood, the sacramental life, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, the salvic efficacy of baptism, the necessity of the Magisterium, the fact the Sacred Tradition is coequal to Sacred Scripture, etc…

I gave examples of some exact parallels, I didn’t say that all were the same.

Episcopalians and Lutherans do accept the Real Presence, but because of the break in episcopal succession, we do not recognize their power to consecrate the Eucharist and say that theirs is not an actual Real Presence. They believe the doctrine nonetheless.

Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Church of Christ, and some others believe in baptismal regeneration just as we do.

Episcopalians believe in the three-legged authority of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason.

Episcopalians accept the same Credo that we affirm at Mass.

Numerous Protestant churches believe that salvation is through faith and works, just as we do.

It simply depends on the particular church as to whether their doctrines are the same as, very similar to, or totally opposite to our own doctrines.

 

[aimee]

FightingFat:

I saw a great episode of ER the other night (not my thing, but my wife’s a paediatric nurse so she has to watch anything medical). Weaver’s mum turned up at the hospital to see her- her real mum. It became obvious that she was quite religious (said Jesus alot) and Weaver couldn’t pretend she wasn’t gay. It was very moving. The mother used much of the same arguments used here quite often but Weaver said this is who I am, does God exclude me because of who I am? I would have to say he doesn’t. Anyone else see it?

Mark, after all your wife must go through…how can she watch more

I know about the episode in question…what about the daughters reaction to her mother…perhaps she should accept her mothers view also…Still, the same applies love the person…hate the sin.

 

[FightingFat]

aimee:

Mark, after all your wife must go through…how can she watch more

That’s what I always want to know…I wouldn’t mind if she didn’t spend the whole thing saying
‘That would never happen…’
and
‘That’s so unrealistic…’

aimee:

I know about the episode in question…what about the daughters reaction to her mother…perhaps she should accept her mothers view also…Still, the same applies love the person…hate the sin.

Well, I think she does accept her mother’s beliefs insofar as they are not in direct conflict with a fundamental character trait. In fact, she states that she feels her community excluded her because of her sexual orientation.
As someone who considers himself a loyal and faithfull Catholic Christian (though I’m sure many here think I’m a wacko liberal) I found myself cringing, and really identifying with Weaver’s dilemma…Did you find yourself agreeing with the mother Aimee? What would you do if a child of yours turned out to be gay?

 

[aimee]

FightingFat:

That’s what I always want to know…I wouldn’t mind if she didn’t spend the whole thing saying
‘That would never happen…’
and
‘That’s so unrealistic…’


Well, I think she does accept her mother’s beliefs insofar as they are not in direct conflict with a fundamental character trait. In fact, she states that she feels her community excluded her because of her sexual orientation.
As someone who considers himself a loyal and faithfull Catholic Christian (though I’m sure many here think I’m a wacko liberal) I found myself cringing, and really identifying with Weaver’s dilemma…Did you find yourself agreeing with the mother Aimee? What would you do if a child of yours turned out to be gay?

First, I would always love my child…of course they would know my position and its the same as the Church…I would pray for them and hope this would lead to a mutual understanding.

 

[Writer]

Richardols:

I gave examples of some exact parallels, I didn’t say that all were the same.

Episcopalians and Lutherans do accept the Real Presence, but because of the break in episcopal succession, we do not recognize their power to consecrate the Eucharist and say that theirs is not an actual Real Presence. They believe the doctrine nonetheless.

Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Church of Christ, and some others believe in baptismal regeneration just as we do.

Episcopalians believe in the three-legged authority of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason.

Episcopalians accept the same Credo that we affirm at Mass.

Numerous Protestant churches believe that salvation is through faith and works, just as we do.

It simply depends on the particular church as to whether their doctrines are the same as, very similar to, or totally opposite to our own doctrines.

Quick comment on the real presence… You might want to ask an Episcopal priest about this. That was not my understanding of their belief when we were Episcopalians. It was more of a service designed to appeal to both those who believed in the real presence and those who did not. I don’t recall this being the case, but it has been a few years now since we attended at an Episcopal Church. I will say that some Anglicans, such as C.S. Lewis, have definitely had a correct view of the Eucharist. As far as the Lutherans, they certainly do not have the same understanding of the sacrament as Catholics. The Missouri Synod pastor had a problem explaining the difference to me. He said it was more than a symbol, but less than the real presence of Christ. As I understand it, the presence of Christ is said to surround the communion (above and below) but not permeate it. To me, it seems it would almost be more easy to say, “Oh, just forget it! It’s the real presence, after all!” Instead, they are going through all these verbal contortions to try to make sense of their own understanding of the sacrament’s significance.