Number of New England Catholics tumble

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This article in the Boston Globe indicates that the number of Catholics in the six state region of New England has dramatically decreased from 54% of the population in 1990 to 36% of the population today. The biggest shift away from Catholicism for residents were to people of who now say they are not religious. This suggests that secularism is taking even more of a hold in the Northeast region. Fortunately, the overall number of Catholics in America has remained relatively stable with increases seen in the West and Southwest.

boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/09/number_of_ne_catholics_tumbles/
 
Now we can clearly understand why legislation that is attacking the Bridgeport Conn. diocese can occur. Now we can understand the link between the level of people advocating for same sex marriage etc. And the list goes on and on. More reasons to pray. Sometimes, I think we forget our Lenten readings that include Jonah going through the town of Ninevah to tell them to repent lest they be destroyed. Well, wakeup USA…look around.
 
What about for other Christian faiths? Is there a comparable decline?

Blessings
 
This decline is part of a larger secularization of society. It has been exacerbated by the abuse of young men by certain priests here in Boston and in many other dioceses of New England. The former Bishop of Springfield is still, I believe, in hiding. The decline, particularly among Irish Catholics, started before the scandal hit in 2002.
 
Jonah didn’t like what God said to do, so he got on a boat to sail off to a land where God wasn’t in charge. But he never made itt, same as folks today can’t run away from God, either. Whatever they say, God is watching. A lot of Catholics today are on that boat; Priests and Bishops, too.
 
Could it be that this decline is related to the changes we have seen in the Church since Vatican II, especially the increase in easy marriage annulments?
 
Could it be that this decline is related to the changes we have seen in the Church since Vatican II, especially the increase in easy marriage annulments?
Oh please! Blaming Vatican II for this also?? The stats do not surprise me, seeing the swell of secularism in New England. But please don’t blame this on Vatican II. Look at what schools, colleges etc are teaching. Look at what is daily bombarding our youth on the internet, classrooms, television magazines, etc. It is a purely hedonistic society that we see developing before us. And you blame Vatican II. Myopic at best.
 
Oh please! Blaming Vatican II for this also?? The stats do not surprise me, seeing the swell of secularism in New England. But please don’t blame this on Vatican II. Look at what schools, colleges etc are teaching. Look at what is daily bombarding our youth on the internet, classrooms, television magazines, etc. It is a purely hedonistic society that we see developing before us. And you blame Vatican II. Myopic at best.
In other words the Catholic Church has failed in New England. No I won’t blame it on Vatican 2. But I will blame it on all the Clergy who destroyed our Catholic identity after Vatican 2!. They allowed secularism to invade their churches in order to go with the times.
 
Oh please! Blaming Vatican II for this also?? The stats do not surprise me, seeing the swell of secularism in New England. But please don’t blame this on Vatican II. Look at what schools, colleges etc are teaching. Look at what is daily bombarding our youth on the internet, classrooms, television magazines, etc. It is a purely hedonistic society that we see developing before us. And you blame Vatican II. Myopic at best.
I don’t think so, because although Vatican II attempted to retain the essentials and substance of the faith, nevertheless it made an effort to adapt the way in which the faith is
explained, communicated, and experienced to modern times. That is why we have seen the introduction of junk psychology as a basis for granting many easy to get marriage annulments.
 
In other words the Catholic Church has failed in New England. No I won’t blame it on Vatican 2. But I will blame it on all the Clergy who destroyed our Catholic identity after Vatican 2!. They allowed secularism to invade their churches in order to go with the times.
Why was all of this allowed after Vatican II but not before Vatican II? Did it not have something to do with the attempt to adapt Catholicism to the modern world?
 
If anything, the increase of marriage annulments have allow many to return to the faith and practice of the sacraments who otherwise would not e able to do so. This has actually caused an increase in practicing Catholics (at least for those who have been divorced- why would these people want an annulment if not to participate in Church life)? My mother is a good example… Even though she divorced and remarried, she non the less continued attending Church for the around 16 years and denied herself the reception of communion in keeping with Church law. Finally she filed for and eventually received an annulments and was able to happily re marry in the Church and begin to again receive the sacraments. This was a happy day for her (I was my step fathers best man).

I guess some people are so obsessed with legalism and strict religious discipline that they would have denied her this happy moment of reconciliation with god because the modern criteria for annulments was a result of Vatican II and it’s “crimes”. Well I say thank God for the new way of doing annulments which take into account many things which the old laws didn’t and therefore make an annulment a real possibility for Catholics. How many Catholics in the old days were caught in loveless marriages with cruel and abusive spouses? Those who couldn’t take it anymore and got a divorce were excommunicated from the Church. Even if they separated, the possibility of anyone outside of Frank Sinatra or the King of Spain getting an annulment was slim to none. The old rules were so strict that very few could meet the standards so very few bothered to apply. Now things are different, they are for the better.

Alos, New Englanders are loosing the faith because of the massive secularization of their region and the inability and ineptness of the bishops to launch a counter Church crusade for faith. Instead they close every church they feel isn’t “viable” to them.
 
I don’t think so, because although Vatican II attempted to retain the essentials and substance of the faith, nevertheless it made an effort to adapt the way in which the faith is
explained, communicated, and experienced to modern times. That is why we have seen the introduction of junk psychology as a basis for granting many easy to get marriage annulments.
I don’t want to sound harsh. But your annulment has tainted your entire outlook on the Church. Do not let it fester. Let it go. You will be the better for it.
 
If anything, the increase of marriage annulments have allow many to return to the faith and practice of the sacraments who otherwise would not e able to do so. This has actually caused an increase in practicing Catholics (at least for those who have been divorced- why would these people want an annulment if not to participate in Church life)? My mother is a good example… Even though she divorced and remarried, she non the less continued attending Church for the around 16 years and denied herself the reception of communion in keeping with Church law. Finally she filed for and eventually received an annulments and was able to happily re marry in the Church and begin to again receive the sacraments. This was a happy day for her (I was my step fathers best man).

I guess some people are so obsessed with legalism and strict religious discipline that they would have denied her this happy moment of reconciliation with god because the modern criteria for annulments was a result of Vatican II and it’s “crimes”. Well I say thank God for the new way of doing annulments which take into account many things which the old laws didn’t and therefore make an annulment a real possibility for Catholics. How many Catholics in the old days were caught in loveless marriages with cruel and abusive spouses? Those who couldn’t take it anymore and got a divorce were excommunicated from the Church. Even if they separated, the possibility of anyone outside of Frank Sinatra or the King of Spain getting an annulment was slim to none. The old rules were so strict that very few could meet the standards so very few bothered to apply. Now things are different, they are for the better.

Alos, New Englanders are loosing the faith because of the massive secularization of their region and the inability and ineptness of the bishops to launch a counter Church crusade for faith. Instead they close every church they feel isn’t “viable” to them.
While I am sure your mother’s annulment was for valid grounds, I have known a number of individuals who told the tribunals facts that may or may not have been skewed. A friend of mine married a man after he received an annulment, because his ex spouse, he claimed, refused to have children. Once married and with a child of their own, th man told my friend he never wanted more than one child and refused sexual relations unless she was on the pill or was sterilized. In the mean time, the former spouse remarried in the Church and had three kids. Eventually, my friend divorced the man. She remains single. Personally, I think my friend should file for an annulment because her husband obviously lied on his annulment application, making her marriage to him null.

Easy annulments make a mockery of those with valid grounds.

VC2 was not the problem. The perversion of VC2 was. All the goofiness and laxity that our progressive bishops and clergy espoused, then passed down to the laity without any real catechesis is a big reason for the fix we’re in today. Kinda like kids playing telephone, the message has become distorted as dioceses continue to do their own thing. We’ve lost our identity, IMHO, as evidenced in the 5-8 people who are baptized on Holy Saturday. I think many of us remember the long lines of the elect when we were young.

We could go in any Catholic Church, anywhere, and follow it. We’d know when to stand, sit and kneel. Now like a bunch of nondescript Christian sects, we have to play follow the front row if we visit another city.

Get the Church back under one leader, all doing the same thing, with WORSHIP being our reason to be, and I think we have a shot of rebuilding. Continue to fail to be unified and consistent, and we continue to shrink.
 
If anything, the increase of marriage annulments have allow many to return to the faith and practice of the sacraments who otherwise would not e able to do so. This has actually caused an increase in practicing Catholics (at least for those who have been divorced- why would these people want an annulment if not to participate in Church life)? My mother is a good example… Even though she divorced and remarried, she non the less continued attending Church for the around 16 years and denied herself the reception of communion in keeping with Church law. Finally she filed for and eventually received an annulments and was able to happily re marry in the Church and begin to again receive the sacraments. This was a happy day for her (I was my step fathers best man).

I guess some people are so obsessed with legalism and strict religious discipline that they would have denied her this happy moment of reconciliation with god because the modern criteria for annulments was a result of Vatican II and it’s “crimes”. Well I say thank God for the new way of doing annulments which take into account many things which the old laws didn’t and therefore make an annulment a real possibility for Catholics. How many Catholics in the old days were caught in loveless marriages with cruel and abusive spouses? Those who couldn’t take it anymore and got a divorce were excommunicated from the Church. Even if they separated, the possibility of anyone outside of Frank Sinatra or the King of Spain getting an annulment was slim to none. The old rules were so strict that very few could meet the standards so very few bothered to apply. Now things are different, they are for the better.

Alos, New Englanders are loosing the faith because of the massive secularization of their region and the inability and ineptness of the bishops to launch a counter Church crusade for faith. Instead they close every church they feel isn’t “viable” to them.
Sure. if you want to abandon the teaching on the indissolubility of marriage, I suppose you could get many more people into the Catholic Church.
 
I don’t want to sound harsh. But your annulment has tainted your entire outlook on the Church. Do not let it fester. Let it go. You will be the better for it.
Sorry, but I don’t think that I will be able to reject the preVatican II Catholic teaching on the indissolublity of marriage.
 
Sure. if you want to abandon the teaching on the indissolubility of marriage, I suppose you could get many more people into the Catholic Church.
In my former diocese of Los Angeles, we saw an auxiliary put in writing the proximate evil of other social injustices, in relation to abortion. I guess he’s adopting a more progressive view as to the sanctity of life. I’m sure if the Church in America adopted a more inclusive view of pre marital sex, gay relations and abortion, we could increase the numbers of Catholics who have a problem with those teachings, returning too.
 
Now we can clearly understand why legislation that is attacking the Bridgeport Conn. diocese can occur. Now we can understand the link between the level of people advocating for same sex marriage etc. And the list goes on and on. More reasons to pray. Sometimes, I think we forget our Lenten readings that include Jonah going through the town of Ninevah to tell them to repent lest they be destroyed. Well, wakeup USA…look around.
The problem is that people do not believe in the story of Jonah, so they do not have to give the message contained therein any importance.
 
The problem is that people do not believe in the story of Jonah, so they do not have to give the message contained therein any importance.
The people? How about the prelates? The quest for adulation and inclusion in “special events” political circles, seems to have taken many of our bishops souls. Every time I look at Taj Mahony or those other hundred million dollar structures built to leave the mark of the bishop in the community, I could scream. “It’s all about the basket”, a dear African priest told me. Truer words were never spoken.

As they tacitly endorsed Obama with the lure of more money for their programs, they built edifices that could have funded those programs for decades. We have cowards in SF, Delaware, Boston, DC and Los Angeles, who refuse to publicly condemn evil and evil doers. Then we wonder why the number of faithful Catholics fall.

I take comfort in the words of Benedict. When the Church falls off somewhere, it multiples somewhere else…
 
What we’re seeing is the effects of the Enlightenment project, begun about three centuries ago. It has three main “pillars:” 1) Secularism - that there is no God, or if there is, He doesn’t care. 2) Truth relativism - that there is no objective truth. It’s whatever the individual thinks. 3) Individualism - that each individual is, in effect, his/her own “god” and no one has any obligation to another human being, except as they consent.

This has infiltrated our entire educational system, including schools that are (only) labeled “Catholic.” It’s not an accident. It was a well-planned, flawlessly executed attack on the Church to destroy it. They did it, mainly, through the educational system, by teaching the teachers to think the “new age” way. There’s an old Latin saying that says you cannot give what you do not have. The teachers today, even in Catholic school, don’t know their Catholic faith, so they have nothing to “pass on” to the younger generations. We have people in the Church that have bachelor’s, master’s, and PhD’s in science business, history, etc. But they have a 2nd or 3rd grade education in their Catholic faith! And they are “too busy” to really learn it! The good news is, though, is that there is more and more information available in different formats for those who want to learn.

Example: alabamacatholicresources.com is a free website that offers download of .MP3 files of orthodox Catholic material. And there are many other sites, too that offer similar things.
 
The Catholic understanding of marriage has changed over the centuries. The early Church fathers, for instance, seemed almost contemptuous of marriage (and anything not of the pure, ascetical state for that matter). The created world was seen as essentially evil and humans were encouraged to shun it as much as possible. Unfortunately this view proved to be too unrealistic so it was tempered over the centuries until the Middle Ages when official marriage ceremonies were developed. The Church still seemed kind of confused to the place of married love and even sex in theology and morality (St Augustine thought that it was at least a venial sin to have marital relations).

Then thankfully Pope John Paul II developed his wonderful theology of the body which states that marriage and sex are good in their proper place and not the ugly, disgusting thing that they were once made out to be. As the understanding of married love changed so too did the Church begin to look at the ways marriage was viewed and developed a broader category of impediments to a lawful marriage.

Case in point, things change. Some for worse, many for the better. This is just one of those things that’s for the best (why would anyone want to make it harder for a person to get an annulmet anyway)?

Catholic marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History of marriage in the Catholic church
First-century Christians therefore did not value the family and saw celibacy and freedom from family ties as a preferable state.

Augustine believed that marriage was a sacrament, because it was a symbol used by Paul to express Christ’s love of the Church. Despite this for the Fathers of the Church with their hatred of sex, marriage could not be a true and valuable Christian vocation. Jerome wrote: “It is not disparaging wedlock to prefer virginity. No one can make a comparison between two things if one is good and the other evil” (Letter 22). Tertullian argued that marriage “consists essentially in fornication” (An Exhortation to Chastity") Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage said that the first commandment given to men was to increase and multiply, but now that the earth was full there was no need to continue this process of multiplication. Augustine was clear that if everybody stopped marrying and having children that would be an admirable thing; it would mean that the Kingdom of God would return all the sooner and the world would come to an end.

This negative view of marriage was reflected in the lack of interest shown by the Church authorities. No special ceremonial was devised to celebrate Christian marriage - despite the fact that the Church quickly produced liturgies to celebrate the Eucharist, Baptism and Confirmation. It was not important for a couple to have their nuptials blessed by a priest. People could marry by mutual agreement in the presence of witnesses. This system, known as Spousals, persisted after the Reformation. At first the old Roman pagan rite was used by Christians, although modified superficially. The first detailed account of a Christian wedding in the West dates from the 9th century and was identical to the old nuptial service of Ancient Rome[3].
 
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