Nuns Killed Children, Say Former Residents Of St. Joseph’s Catholic Orphanage

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abucs said:
Easy way out of what?
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It is the easy way out to suggest that the secular media only wants “bad things for the Church”. That is not why the majority on it. They are reporting on it so that they hold the Church accountable—which is their role to place in society. No?

The Church itself hasn’t been able to do that.

Laity is currently struggling with these constant revelations, and more will come from the States as more reports similar to the Pennsylvanian report are released.

It is not “faulty logic” to refute that secular media is out to get Catholics as a whole. Secular media is there to hold people and organisations accountable. The press is part of the fourth branch or estate of government.

I’m not confusing the two issues. One is that failing of the Church and the other is the vital role secular media played in getting the Church to admit its failing.
 
I hope this is ok to say and not uncharitable.

When the stories about mistreated women in Ireland came out, I remember some Catholics claimed that the mistreatment was rare, or exaggerated, or made up.

But there have been too many of these similar stories. Now this newer story.

I question, honestly, if these women who were so vicious, never had an actual vocation, and entered the convent because they had limited choices in life.

I’m not that old (49). I remember a particular sister in grammar school who could not be bothered to learn how to pronounce my Italian last name. It started with a c and ended in o. “Chicago” is how she pronounced it. It wasn’t even close.

I remember specifically and vividly her smacking another Italian American boy across the face, multiple times, back and forth while holding down his hand so he couldn’t defend himself.

I knew the sacrifices my parents had to make to send me to Catholic school. I can imagine this boy’s parents making similar sacrifices.

I can imagine he left the Church. Why would he stay? She was his example of Church.
 
abucs said:
7_Sorrows the past horrors of abuse are all over society.
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Yes, almost every orphanage or “youth facility”, regardless of who was running it, Catholic or otherwise, used to be like this. It doesn’t excuse the abusive nuns and priests, but society in general back then didn’t really care what happened to these throwaway children.
 
F_Marturana said:
I question, honestly, if these women who were so vicious, never had an actual vocation, and entered the convent because they had limited choices in life.
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Do you have to actually “question”? In the early to mid 1900s, in the area where these women lived, it’s pretty obvious that they had limited choices in life. If they didn’t want to get married, or couldn’t find anybody to marry, it was probably a lot more socially acceptable to join the convent than to become an old maid. Plus, you’d have a lot of other sisters around for company and wouldn’t have to be all alone. It’s also highly likely that many of them were disciplined in an abusive way when they were children. Beating kids with a strap or a switch was a pretty regular practice then. Who knows how many kids were killed by their own parents and we’ll never even hear about it.
 
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The secular media has long ceased to become any sort of public accountability force for good. The secular media just wants dirty laundry to get clicks and views. Occasionally some good results, but to quote “Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm”, it’s more by luck than by forethought.
 
I am slightly more optimistic on the role of the media than I am of the Church’s former and current ability to be completely forthright of the past abuses.

The role the Church played in actively silencing victims and survivors is horrific.

Also, sure we can say that the world was different then—however, decent people and parents back then went to their bishops and confined in them the inappropriate behaviour that was happening. It wasn’t right. The Church chose to allow it to continue to happen.
 
I agree that the Church was wrong to silence people, and I have heard some homilies lately to the effect that we as Catholics have a duty to give survivors a voice and a forum to tell their stories, even when it has nothing to do with us (not our parish, not our diocese or even our state, happened before we were born, etc.) I can accept that.

I do not, however, accept that the media does this out of pure motives. I am pretty sure the person who wrote this story would be happy to get a true crime book deal. Homicidal nuns are likely to sell well.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I do not, however, accept that the media does this out of pure motives. I am pretty sure the person who wrote this story would be happy to get a true crime book deal. Homicidal nuns are likely to sell well.
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It’s not probably out of pure motives, no. Nonetheless, they are actually reporting on it and allowing survivors to tell their stories. Investigative pieces, like Spotlight / Boston Globe, and many others, allow a narrative to form which helps many to actually comprehend what is going on.

In the past it was reported on here and there but never this extensively, thus not allowing the full truth to emerge. Only the media has allowed that to happen.

Like I said above, Catholic media was and perhaps still is inherently unable to do this due to the lack of objectivity in many cases, and the lack of investigative teams.
 
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I haven’t left but am seriously pondering what to do currently. I am one of seven children. All of my siblings have long left the Church due to similar occurances with one particular sister at their elementary school. We moved before I started school so she was never my teacher. The sisters at my school were very wonderful. I often wonder if their leaving had something to do with their absolute hate they feel for anything Catholic. My mom was abused at her school by a nun and the priest there made my mom believe it was her fault. She never left the Church but she has always viewed herself as a bad person.

I am glad you returned to the faith. I hope one day my siblings (those still on Earth at least) will as well, and I am praying my faith is restored soon.
 
May our Lord Jesus Christ grant you a strong faith, and bring back all who have strayed.

Many of us have family members who no longer practice their faith. They need our prayers and sacrifices, and, of course, to be aware of the Lord’s love for them.

Let us all be a part of the “purification of the Church”.
 
LittleFlower said:
It is the easy way out to suggest that the secular media only wants “bad things for the Church”. That is not why the majority on it. They are reporting on it so that they hold the Church accountable—which is their role to place in society. No?

The Church itself hasn’t been able to do that.

Laity is currently struggling with these constant revelations, and more will come from the States as more reports similar to the Pennsylvanian report are released.

It is not “faulty logic” to refute that secular media is out to get Catholics as a whole. Secular media is there to hold people and organisations accountable. The press is part of the fourth branch or estate of government.

I’m not confusing the two issues. One is that failing of the Church and the other is the vital role secular media played in getting the Church to admit its failing.
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Again i ask, easy way out of what exactly? And after you name it you need to make the connection that i am trying to get out of something that prompted your reply.

It is faulty logic to link the criticism of the motives and operation of secular media in relation to the way the church should be improved to the argument that nothing should be reported or that secular reporting should not happen.

My point is the first. You are creating and including the second which is not my argument. Your logic is faulty.
 
Irishmom2 said:
No, it would seem that anyone that disagrees with you is deemed to have faulty logic.
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No, i have explained the faulty logic clearly in the above post. If you want to rationally discuss my points and the faulty logic which tried to tie this to a criticism of secular media reporting at all then i am happy to have that discussion.
 
No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than disagree with people.
 
You haven’t exactly explained what faulty logic is happening here at all. If you could reiterate it however plain and in simple english that would be great.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Beating kids with a strap or a switch was a pretty regular practice then. Who knows how many kids were killed by their own parents and we’ll never even hear about it.
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My father’s cousin broke her son’s arm when she hit him with a piece of wood. Even my parents, who didn’t think twice about taking the wooden spoon or belt to us if they felt we deserved it, thought that was beyond the pale.
 
13pollitos said:
I haven’t left but am seriously pondering what to do currently. I am one of seven children. All of my siblings have long left the Church due to similar occurances with one particular sister at their elementary school. We moved before I started school so she was never my teacher.
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There was one sister at the elementary/junior high school many of my high school classmates attended whose name comes up regularly as having been particularly abusive. Heck, I’d heard of her while in jr. high in the village next to the town where she taught. Fifty years later she’s still reviled by those she taught.

The one who taught me in 1st & 2nd grade knew how to teach but wasn’t particularly good at dealing with children. In fact, she was downright strange. I remember the day a boy in grade 1 farted in class; she opened our second floor window, sat him on the ledge with his rear hanging outside, and left him there for a good part of the morning. She had me and one or two of my classmates go around smelling our classmates and reporting to her if they smelled of urine or feces. I mean ??? She even sent little 7 year old me to the washroom with a first grader to check if the first grader had soiled her pants. How the heck was I supposed to find that out???
 
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