Nursing Mothers

[daniellet]

Marie:

It comes from Apologia and is a dissenting website.

Danger

Thank you for the warning.

Marie:

Toddlers should be old enough to wait til you get home if you must breastfeed them, though there is no reason they cannot take breastmilk from the cup. After age one nursing is more of a hinderence to their social and phsycological development than a help. The milk itself is beneficial but to keep nursing a child old enough to drink from a cup is pure balderdash.

Agreed that toddlers can wait. Nursing a toddler in mass would be disruptive, imo, especially mine.

Your comment about nursing after the age of one is completely and totally devoid of any sound basis, though. I could give you all kinds of anthropological, medical, and logical arguments, but I dare say you’ve already made up your mind.

The only argument I will try to make for toddler nursing is this: Jesus was likely nursed until 3 years old. Are you saying he was psychologically and socially hindered? Hannah brought Samuel to the temple after he was weaned. Scholars put that at between 3 and 5 years old. Are you saying he was psychologically and socially hindered? As was pointed out, the AAP recommends breastfeeding for at least 1 year and thereafter as mutually desired. The World Health Organization recommends nursing for at least 2 years.

I would like to hear the evidence for your position.

 

[MamaAtHome]

After age one nursing is more of a hinderence to their social and phsycological development than a help.

Hmmmm, I have a very social, strong, well mannered 9 year old, who snuggled up in my lap for a nursing until his 5th birthday, and a very mature, responsible 7 year old who nursed well into her fourth year, and a rambunctious, joyful, and genuine 5 year old who weaned when he was about 4, he and his darling brother, who was 3 at the time, weaned at the same time. I am currently nursing 2 children that are over a year of age, they are two of the sweetest, loving children I have ever had the pleasure to know.

I guess you can’t ‘lump’ all children that nurse past a year in one pile.

 

[daniellet]

MamaAtHome:

Hmmmm, I have a very social, strong, well mannered 9 year old, who snuggled up in my lap for a nursing until his 5th birthday, and a very mature, responsible 7 year old who nursed well into her fourth year, and a rambunctious, joyful, and genuine 5 year old who weaned when he was about 4, he and his darling brother, who was 3 at the time, weaned at the same time. I am currently nursing 2 children that are over a year of age, they are two of the sweetest, loving children I have ever had the pleasure to know.

I guess you can’t ‘lump’ all children that nurse past a year in one pile.

Bless you for doing such a wonderful job with your children. I’m sure they are lovely, compassionate, delightful children!

 

[kristacecilia]

Marie:

Toddlers should be old enough to wait til you get home if you must breastfeed them, though there is no reason they cannot take breastmilk from the cup. After age one nursing is more of a hinderence to their social and phsycological development than a help. The milk itself is beneficial but to keep nursing a child old enough to drink from a cup is pure balderdash.

This sort of reasoning never made sense to me. You say that toddlers should continue to drink breastmilk, but not from the breast- from a cup. Well, last time I checked God didn’t equip me with cups, he equipped me with breasts. If God intended me to give my baby breastmilk in a cup, then He really messed up with the design somehow. Do you think God’s design is lacking and has to be supplemented? I sure don’t. As long as my baby takes breastmilk, he’ll be taking it from my breasts, the way God intended. And I am planning for my baby to take my milk as long as he needs it.

Also, God designed our bodies so that we could space our babies naturally through breastfeeding. The sucking is what stimulates the proper hormones to surpress ovulation. So if I am giving my baby breastmilk from anything other than my breasts, I am not receiving the baby-spacing God designed my body to receive.

If you are open to another point of veiw, look up breastfeeding on www.ccli.org and read the book “Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing”. It addresses everything I have mentioned here.

BTW, I am one of those first time mothers (my baby is 5 mos) who nurses in the front pew during Mass without a blanket, and I do so very discreetly. I have only had one problem the whole time keeping myself covered, and that day I was trying to use a blanket (my son won’t let me use a blanket, he just pulls it off and waves it around while he’s nursing, attracting attention I wouldn’t have received if I had not used the blanket in the first place). My priests have seen me nurse during Mass and I always get gentle smiles of approval from them. I am in complete agreement with the people on this thread who have said that the problem with society today is that people don’t want to see the breast for what it was really intended.

The only way we can make an ideal world is to live by those ideals.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Marie,
I’d still like to know where you got the quote from in post #112. I obviously don’t agree with it and I wonder where it came from. It misquotes the AAP. I’m sure never to change your mind, but I still say you are really mistaken about extended breastfeeding. As Kristacecelia said, I’m not equipped with cups. To get the breastmilk, the infant/toddler must suck. I don’t have a breastpump and have never been able to hand express. We may call them toddlers at 1 year old, but they are still babies in many ways. As you, yourself said, the first 3 years are critical and that can include extended breastfeeding. I don’t want my child to be comforted by a blanket or stuffed animal. God made it so we attach to each other, not objects. I am my child’s homebase, their comfort, their support. Just as God is to me.

Jennifer

 

[Marie]

Jennifer J:

Marie,
I’d still like to know where you got the quote from in post #112. I obviously don’t agree with it and I wonder where it came from.

It misquotes the AAP. I’m sure never to change your mind, but I still say you are really mistaken about extended breastfeeding. As Kristacecelia said, I’m not equipped with cups. To get the breastmilk, the infant/toddler must suck. I don’t have a breastpump and have never been able to hand express. We may call them toddlers at 1 year old, but they are still babies in many ways. As you, yourself said, the first 3 years are critical and that can include extended breastfeeding.

From a website on breastfeeding obviously. Several in fact.

Critical… I don’t think includes breastfeeding for three years dear. The fact is many people consider it immodest when done in public. I am neither male nor am I without children. I breastfed but find this idea the public must have it thrust on them because some breastfeeding mothers insist doing it anywhere unacceptable. An infant is fine but beyond that the public should be spared having have it thrust upon them. I find it disordered and poor parenting to continue when a child is old enough to use a cup. Use a breast pump and continue the milk if its so important but the idea of a child who can talk and walk being breastfed is what offends many, including me. The silly idea that a child must be bonded like a puppy is ridiculous. Children grow and children expand their horizons. The need to keep them tied to the breast and baby ways beyond infancy is not something John Q Public needs to have to deal with. A child can be and should be attached to parents and family. Nursing a kindergartner is not the way to do it IMO.

If it makes you feel better than I am not going to argue it. I am stating that the truth is the general public does not care to be exposed to your particular bonding method in public.

End of discussion.

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

Marie:

End of discussion.

I’m sure you meant “end of discussion” for yourself, right?

Besides, how did this get from nursing an infant during Mass to the pros and cons of extended breastfeeding? OOPS! I guess I might have had something to do with it! I was the one who posted the worldwide weaning age( which is four,BTW)!
I’m sorry I helped get this off topic. Well, gotta run, my 16 month old needs to nurse.

 

[MamaAtHome]

PHEW! Boy, I’m glad I have women like Samuels mother Hannah, and the Blessed Mother to look to as examples of exemplory mothering.

I find it disordered and poor parenting to continue when a child is old enough to use a cup

I find it disordered and poor parenting to push children to grow up so quickly. Good thing again, that I’m following Mary’s example, rather than our ‘societel norms’.

~Lisa…livin’ those ideals…

 

[daniellet]

Marie:

Use a breast pump and continue the milk if its so important but the idea of a child who can talk and walk being breastfed is what offends many, including me.

You haven’t answered anyone’s questions with any kind of a cogent argument. All you have presented is opinion. Do you have any facts to back up your argument?

What did mother’s do before electric breastpumps?

Do you honestly think most of human history has had the age of weaning wrong and in this oh-so-life-loving culture of ours, we suddenly have it right?

Mary and Hannah were disordered mothers? I bet they are in heaven now just kicking themselves.

You and most of our culture are offended. Hmmmmm. Many in our culture are so offended by the needs of children that they find children better of *dead. *Is this really the culture you want to align yourself with?

 

[jess7396]

On the off-topic of extended nursing:

Thanks to all the mamas taking the time to state so clearly that God, and His design, along with the Blessed Virgin Mary’s example are what should concern mothers of today, rather than “societal norms” which are clearly wrong in sooo many other ways.

I tend to the belief (crazy Catholic that I am) that God’s design is FAR more important than societal norms, and I am looking for His approval, not this society’s. Call me crazy, call me “disordered”, because that is ok, so long as I am doing what God Himself intended , I’ll be happy.

 

[Marie]

daniellet:

You and most of our culture are offended. Hmmmmm. Many in our culture are so offended by the needs of children that they find children better of *dead. *Is this really the culture you want to align yourself with?

Touchy touchy now aren’t we. If you wish to subject the world to your brand of mothering go for it. You will be happy and we will all survive. But do remember to let your child learn to grow up and not cling to mommy forever and ever. You cannot protect them from the world though it is laudable to try with all your might. I have no problem with that. I don’t even find it offensive to give them breastmilk as long as possible, and highly recommend it. I do find the incessant need to breastfeed literally long past infancy questionable. The kid is going to be using a cup to drink for most of it’s life and nature calls for teaching that too. (Your overlooking that fact in your opionion.)

But the fact some mothers deem it their own in your face badge for Mother of the year, and refuse to be discreet is what I am discussing. You people were all raining over the young man for his opinion all the while ignoring there is a question of modesty to be addressed. That is where I fall sweety, just taking up for the guy you embarrased no end.

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

Marie:

Toddlers should be old enough to wait til you get home if you must breastfeed them, though there is no reason they cannot take breastmilk from the cup. After age one nursing is more of a hinderence to their social and phsycological development than a help. The milk itself is beneficial but to keep nursing a child old enough to drink from a cup is pure balderdash.

My mother thinks I’m spoiling my child by continuing to breastfeed.
The post-war generation had a different approach to breastfeeding than we do now. A lot has changed since then. Research has shown not only that breast milk boosts your baby’s immune system, but that breastfeeding a child for a year or more does not lead to an overly dependent or clingy child; rather, it fosters independence and self-confidence. It can be difficult to continue to breastfeed if you are under pressure to stop, and post-war mothers did what they felt was right for their babies, so it can be hard for them to accept that those beliefs have now changed. Try to hold fast to your views, and perhaps show your mother some current breastfeeding books which back you up.

from this website:babycentre.co.uk/

Yes, I know… I’m off-topic again! But Marie, can you post any articles or websites that support your opinion of extended breastfeeding? As to the question of modesty, most women I know, myself included, do not need to nurse their toddlers in public. That’s the beauty of it. Breastfed toddlers learn patience and how not to expect every demand fulfilled immediately. Certainly NOT conducive to raising a “brat”. As for a baby under a year, that is not going to be solved on this thread. Peoples’ ideas of whether breastfeeding in public is modest, or not, are very polar opposites. Women’s breasts have become too sexuallized for some people to get over. Others also liken breastfeeding to other bodily functions which I will never understand. And some folks will never understand my position, either. Oh, well…:crying:

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Someplace C. S. Lewis comments that one should always accept Old Wives’ Tales over Old Maids’ Facts. The old wives have the experience; the old maids only theory.

Likewise I think we should accept the mothers’ experience here.

 

[Marie]

Joe Kelley:

Someplace C. S. Lewis comments that one should always accept Old Wives’ Tales over Old Maids’ Facts. The old wives have the experience; the old maids only theory.

Likewise I think we should accept the mothers’ experience here.

ROFLOL! Good try Joe. Problem is most of us are Mothers (except for the embarrased guy) and some of us are old…way old…and some of us are young, way young and everything in between. I am very old and a mother who’s kids are way too old to nurse and so are the grandchildren. I do have a greatgrandchild though. She is on the cup at 10 months and doing very well.

Breastfeeding and mothers milk have done wonders for her. The cups very nice too with breastmilk of course.

 

[NightRider]

My son is now 23 years old and is very successful in life. He graduated at the top of his class in highschool and is very well-rounded. He nursed until he was nearly four years old. I believe in allowing the child to self-wean. From the time he was about two years old he only usually nursed twice a day: once in the morning when he woke up and again when he was going to sleep. I completely relied on the information provided in the LaLeche League’s book *The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding *which is still available today. Back when my son was so young, companies were just beginning to offer discrete nursing clothes; in my area none were available unless one sent away for them from the back of *Mothering *magazine!

I breastfed everywhere. I never had any trouble about it in Mass. However, I had trouble about it everywhere else and I just stuck to my guns anyway. Breastfeeding was not my problem; it was other people who had the problem with it. I felt sorry for those people and I feel sorry for the ones of today. They need to get a life! or educate themselves about the realities of raising babies.

All young nursing mothers: I pray you continue to nurse as long as you and your child see fit. Never mind anyone else’s negativity, should you experience it. You know you are doing the right thing for your child and that’s what really matters. You are using your breasts for the purpose God intended, and you are not creating an occasion of sin.

 

[sabrinaofmn]

Only breastfeeding mothers or those who have breastfed in the past are qualified to respond to this question. As a breastfeeding mother of a 21 month old boy, of course your daughter should breastfeed during mass. It’s the only way to keep a youngster happy to make it through mass. I breastfeed my son every mass. Tell your daughter that breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world and to keep up the good parenting!

 

[all4life]

Ladies (and gents), we must remember we probably grew up in different eras, come from different generations. Dh is 45, he wasn’t bfed. I’m sure my inlaws have the same opinion as Marie (I couldn’t be wrong though).

I really am apalled that mother/grandmother would call any child a brat! Let me tell you, my formula fed 3 yr old would probably make your head spin with her bratty, horrendous behavior. She was never at my breast…so that kind of throws your theory, Marie, out the window.

If you would like more information about breastfeeding, issues, extended nursing, discreetly nursing in public, I strongly recommend you visit breastfeeding.com. Go to the message boards. Many women there have nursed their children until they were five.

Oh, and 4 of my dc got teeth by 6mos old, refusing solids. I certainly do not think I should deny them the best food possible because they got some teeth.

I can tell you, with 5 little ones running around, I can tell you I don’t have time to sit for an hour with a pump stuck on my breast trying to suck out milk my child can get in a few minutes.

If my dd wanted to wean tomorrow, at almost 11 months, that is fine with me. If she decided she didn’t want any more nursies at her 3rd birthday, that would be fine too. I would treat our nursing a little different than I do now though.

You know, the first time I saw a mom nursing a toddler, I was a little surprised…as I never thought women did that. This was before I had a successful bfing experience. I am so glad she did that!! She has a wonderful dd, who is now a big sister.

 

[dessy]

hi
Nursing a baby at Mass means nothing it cool anyone that feel its not ok would like to hear the baby cry and enjoy,no provided the is cool and quite then the is a caring good mother.

if some feel a nursing mother shouldn’t come to mass then they want her not to fulfill one of the commandment of the churchby missing mass.this will also deprive her of spiritual food.

What should have been the issue is that, is nursing mother baby’s cry allowed at mass

Mother encourage her to always come for mass with her baby filling free to participate in the mass
thanks
dessy
:tiphat:

 

[triciafrancess]

daniellet:

“Many women don’t overcome the obstacles. Some women may overcome obstacles, but don’t enjoy breastfeeding because of all the negativity and perceived rules and drudgery of the task. I believe that in a more open breastfeeding society, more women would nurse their babies and more women would enjoy doing it. Perhaps even the very institution of motherhood would gain more respect as the uniqueness of the relationship between mother and child is seen in full view.”

Hi, Danielle,

You didn’t say where that quote comes from, but the author seems to be under the mistaken impression that breastfeeding is uncommon. Somehow every generation seems to think they’re the first to embrace breastfeeding, but when my children were babies (they are in the 20s) there was a HUGE amount of pressure to breastfeed our babies – I think my generation might have been the one to invent breast pumps

Your quote kind of proves the opposition’s point. Ours is not an “open breastfeeding society,” even though breastfeeding has been common long enough for that to have happened – if it ever were going to happen. It is not the norm in American culture for mothers to breastfeed openly in public wherever they happen to be. The norm is for the mother to find as isolated a spot as possible for nursing and to be very discreet.

Since that is the norm in shopping malls, restaurants, schools, workplaces, and probably even company picnics, it only makes sense it would also apply to churches, whether during Mass or not. It’s just not polite to make other people uncomfortable in public by flouting societal norms.

Tricia Frances

 

[Teresa9]

Dearest all

I breastfed my daughter for 12 months at which point she rejected me . Breatsfeeding is the most natural thing in the world for the baby, but not so for alot of adults. I think we are simply not used to seeing it anymore and as such it is seen as a little bit ‘out of order’ to feed a child in public, let alone Mass. With this in mind, I fed everywhere because it is a ‘feed on demand’ and is child led feeding, there is no planning for it, the child nuzzles for a feed and the Mother responds everytime by offering the breast. I have fed my child on the bus, in the street, in a restaurant, once in Church, in people’s houses and whilst shopping to name but a few times. The way it was done was so discreet no-one even knew I was feeding my child. You wear a drop cup bra and simply raise your top a little for the child to feed, it simply looked like we were having a close snuggle. Usually the only people who knew I was infact feeding and not just having a snuggle with my baby were Mum’s who have already breastfed. Men were absolutely oblivious !! I remember I was in a restaurant with friends and family and no-one realised in the entire place that I was feeding my child. To my mind of course you should feed your child on demand whereever you are. There is absolutely nothign sexual in it and it is not indecent , it is a nursing mother feeding her child and meeting her child’s needs. It should be encouraged and not frowned upon.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa