Nursing Mothers

[renee1258]

So new mothers are being rude now by simply tilting their babies head to the nipple? I think it is more distracting to be walking up and down the pews. I just don’t understand how breast feeding can be THAT distracting to anybody. I have no problem listening to the liturgy or beign interuprted in my attention span while breast feeding it shouldn’t be a problem for anyone.

Why are we picking on breast fed babies here, why not pick on bottle fed babies where the mother has to prepare the formula in the pew. I’ve done that. Why aren’t we picking on toddlers who aren’t exactly paying attention but doing a quiet activity or standing up and down back and forth inbetween parents.

What about the old man that passes gas in front of you?

I’m a lawyer, I’ve breast fed in a court room three weeks post partum when someone forced me into court knowing I just had a baby. The judge didn’t scold me for bringing a baby into court and feeding him while I waiting for my turn inside the courtroom with everyone.

The judge wasn’t mad at me, the judge was angry at the other side and fined them. I made a quick dollar. The judge realized I had **TWO ** duties, one to my child and one to the court. I got two duties one to my child and one to celebrate Mass on Sunday, no one is going stop me from enjoying Mass because they are being nosey wondering what is going on in the pew in front of them.

 

[jess7396]

loyola rambler:

Why the resistence to good manners and common courtesy?

I think this is wherein the problem lies, we clearly all are disagreeing about this, I don’t think for one minute that this is an issue of good manners or common courtesy, except when someone is staring at a woman and her baby during Mass and then chastising her afterwards for having the baby under a blanket in a way suggestive of nursing.

I think the fact that some here see this as an issue of courtesy and manners shows that this country has a LONG way to go in acceptance of breastfeeding as a God-designed natural, beautiful thing. The fact that good manners would allow for a baby to be fed with a bottle, but not discreetly with a breast (during Mass), IMO shows very clearly how far we have to go.

It does seem we will never agree on this as the premise of “good manners” simply is NOT agreed upon.

Manners have always confused me anyway- here are a few----
~ wedding and baby showers- it is perfectly acceptable (manners-wise) to invite people to a function for the sole purpose of giving you a gift
~adult’s only wedding receptions- manners allow for people to invite only people of a certain age from a family to a party
~tuperware and other such parties- again, perfectly ok with manners to invite people to your house for the purpose of having them buy something

So- really modern day American “good manners” are not really the “clock I will set my watch by”.

 

[darcee]

Well,

What is a woman supposed to do in a parish with NO cry room, no vestibule and no other place where she could go nurse without being completly disruptive to the mass?

-D

 

[mocmom]

I can hardly believe all these remarks about nursing your baby in church. Nursing your baby was invented by God!!! Why are so many so upset? Maybe if we were praying the Mass we wouldn’t notice what our neighbor was up to at Mass. We Catholics (me at the front of the line)need to be less judgmental and more prayerful. Children are a gift to be welcomed by all. God bless all Moms! mocmom

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

mocmom:

I can hardly believe all these remarks about nursing your baby in church. Nursing your baby was invented by God!!! Why are so many so upset? Maybe if we were praying the Mass we wouldn’t notice what our neighbor was up to at Mass. We Catholics (me at the front of the line)need to be less judgmental and more prayerful. Children are a gift to be welcomed by all. God bless all Moms! mocmom

I detect a note of hypocrisy here. People make the arugment that this is natural and not offensive to God but when we bring up other things that are natural and not offensive to God but have no place being done during the Litrugy we are accused of raising straw men.

And again, the argument is turn against those who get distracted by it. It must be their problem, something must be wrong with them. Forget personal responsibilty.

And let no one even come near the issue that this might be a near occasion of sin for someone.

Seems like this is something from the ME generation.

 

[jess7396]

ByzCath:

Seems like this is something from the ME generation.

OK, I am really not trying to be snarky here, but this statement made me laugh right out loud, BREASTFEEDING is from the “ME” generation. Hysterical.

I love to listen to DH’s grandfather talk about how when he was a kid (yes, here in the good old USA) that is what breasts were for, he saw his mom and all his friend’s moms sit and nurse in front of everyone, he says it was just completely normal, they nursed the babies everywhere (yep- even Church). He is so happy to see that the breasts are coming back into their proper use.

I’ll have to give him a call and let him know his mom was a part of this “ME” generation.

I have been wondering when this thread would finally become a waste of time for me, and I am pretty sure I found that time

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

jess7396:

OK, I am really not trying to be snarky here, but this statement made me laugh right out loud, BREASTFEEDING is from the “ME” generation. Hysterical.

Laugh all you want, this just shows that you are missing what I am saying.

I am not saying breastfeeding is of the ME generation.

I am not against breastfeeding.

What I think is of the ME generation is the fact that some people think that they can do this whenever they wish. I do not think that they shouldn’t do this in a public place, I just think that they should be discrete about where they do this.

What the issue for me is the demand that no one question them when they breastfeed during the Liturgy.

As I have said before, there is a time and place to breastfeed and I question that the correct time is during the Liturgy while sitting in the pews.

 

[WhiteDove]

I think the height of the sexualization of the breasts was in the 1950’s, which was also the peak of bottle feeding in the country.

Look here what we tolerate these days in the form of public immodesty, with sexy underwear being sold in the little girls section of the store! You can’t turn on the TV without being exposed to offensive stuff, if not on the show you are watching, then on promos for other shows. You see sexy billboards right and left. Yet folks would rather see a woman pull out a bottle of formula, with an artificial nipple, than allow the natural feeding of a helpless infant at it’s mother’s breast.

They say she is self absorded and inconsiderate! She is indecent and titilating the priest! She’s causing ‘near occasions of sin’! To that I say “hogwash”! I personally always found it a great sacrifice to breastfeed my child in public. I’m very modest and easily embarrassed, and I know there are judgemental creeps out there that are totally shocked that people nurse their babies. There are perverts, there are clucking old ladies, there are people ‘of great propriety’ who would rather be caught dead than be seen doing such a thing!

And, the fact that this is such a hot topic, even soliciting a warning from the moderator to keep it civil, really shows how people’s values have been utterly warped and twisted by the society in which we live.

 

[renee1258]

Byz,

I think the issue here, is that you are a man. There is no equivalent function for men in this regard. The breast is no different then an umbilicord that feeds an unborn child, it works on demand. A baby has the same needs as an unborn baby until it is old enough handle the understanding to eat prior to Mass, like a two year old having a snack. You can’t “top off” a 3 month old, if he isn’t hungry at the very moment he won’t eat.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

renee1258:

Byz,

I think the issue here, is that you are a man. There is no equivalent function for men in this regard. The breast is no different then an umbilicord that feeds an unborn child, it works on demand. A baby has the same needs as an unborn baby until it is old enough handle the understanding to eat prior to Mass, like a two year old having a snack. You can’t “top off” a 3 month old, if he isn’t hungry at the very moment he won’t eat.

Yes I have thought about this, as a man. This is why I have brought up the, so far ignored, issue of this being a potential occasion of sin.

This is also why I am only talking about doing this in the pews rather than going to a somewhat private location.

I also bring this up as someone who is discerning a vocation to the priesthood. I think that if I was celebrating the Liturgy and turned around to face the people for one of the many blessings in the Divine Liturgy that I might find this a bit distracting.

 

[darcee]

ByzCath:

And again, the argument is turn against those who get distracted by it. It must be their problem, something must be wrong with them. Forget personal responsibilty.

And let no one even come near the issue that this might be a near occasion of sin for someone.

Personal responsibility means you are responsible for what you are focusing on.

What about a baby eating is a near occasion of sin? You aren’t honestly saying that knowing that a baby is eating is causing you to sin?

If a woman was wearing suggestive clothing or doing a strip tease then THAT would be reason to fault her for raising the passions of others NOT feeding her infant they aren’t even in the same catagory.

-D

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

darcee:

Personal responsibility means you are responsible for what you are focusing on.

You are right, but this does not remove any personal responsibility for what you might be doing that may draw my attention.

What about a baby eating is a near occasion of sin? You aren’t honestly saying that knowing that a baby is eating is causing you to sin?

This is more than just a baby eating, now you are just getting ridiculous. If it is just a baby eating then why can’t they just use a bottle?

If a woman was wearing suggestive clothing or doing a strip tease then THAT would be reason to fault her for raising the passions of others NOT feeding her infant they aren’t even in the same catagory.

I am not so sure about this. A woman exposes her breast to do this. Now if it is done in a discreet manner then it is a non-issue as no one will know it is occuring. But, as is the case in the opening post of this thread, someone did notice so it was not done discreetly. When it is done in an open fashion, then yes it may be an occasion of sin. I find it troubling that no one will even admit that this is a possibility.

 

[darcee]

ByzCath:

You are right, but this does not remove any personal responsibility for what you might be doing that may draw my attention.

This is more than just a baby eating, now you are just getting ridiculous. If it is just a baby eating then why can’t they just use a bottle?

I am not so sure about this. A woman exposes her breast to do this. Now if it is done in a discreet manner then it is a non-issue as no one will know it is occuring. But, as is the case in the opening post of this thread, someone did notice so it was not done discreetly. When it is done in an open fashion, then yes it may be an occasion of sin. I find it troubling that no one will even admit that this is a possibility.

You have no way of knowing what caused anyone to know the baby referred to in the first post was nursing. Could it have been milky lips? Maybe an educated guess at what the baby under the blanket was doing?

I hate to break it to you, but breast feeding is NOT more then feeding a baby… it is exactly and just and not more then that. Woman breast feed their children because that is how God designed our bodies to work. Small infants don’t understand this idea that there is a time and place for everything… for them the only time to eat is NOW and the only place HERE. Anyplace a bottle would be ok it is perfectly fine to nurse. Because breast feeding a baby is just feeding a baby, there is nothing sexual about it.

If you have, for whatever reason, sexualized breast feeding to the extent that it would cause you to sin to know a woman is breast feeding I can not see how in good conscience you can pass the responsibility of this off on the women who are only feeding their babies.

-D

 

[darcee]

Ok now here is another question.

When was the last time you saw a woman “expose” her breast to fed her baby?

I have never seen such a thing and I live in a rather liberal state.

-D

 

[Melissa]

On the question of why a nursing mother might not “just use a bottle”–there are many breastfed babies who simply will not have anything to do with bottles (I’ve had four of them), nor pacifiers (only one of my four would tolerate one, the rest would spit them for distance when attempts were made to introduce them).

I never used a blanket (honestly, that seems to draw more attention to the fact that nursing is taking place), but did choose a style of dress which was designed for nursing (two vertical slits covered by a vest). While it would have been possible to tell what was happening, the only breast exposure was something that one would have to look over my shoulder while resting his chin upon my collarbone to see (approximately 1" square of skin which was visible only from that perspective but blocked by my arm from the sides and baby’s head from the front). Of course, my husband might have felt compelled to deck someone so forward as to assume that position.

 

[lilder]

Toni:

My daughter is a nursing mother and wanted to know what people on the forum had to say about mothers nursing their babies at Mass. Since she is a nursing mother and has received negative comments.

Only had a minute to check the boards…haven’t read ANY replies but wanted to give your daughter some encouragement.

DO IT!! I do. I have a 14 month old son and he has always nursed in mass. It’s better and less distracting than him screaming. Nursing can be very discreet, I have had people in my same pew never even know I nursed. And a lot of people don’t mind. They dont say anything encouraging to your daughter becuase they know it is natural and wonderful.

For those that have discouraging comments or looks, I just ignore them…or tell them to take it to the Pope, who supports breastfeeding. After all…Jesus was breastfeed!

May God Bless your daughter and your grandchild!
Lilder

 

[lilder]

Just gazing over other responses now…

Breastfeeding is in no way a sin…and that idea is beyond ridiculous!!!

Actually, I think the inference that breastfeeding would lead you to sin is a sin. It means you objectify women as sexual objects only.

:twocents:
Lilder

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I have seen it commented that the modern world has so centered on the breast as a sex symbol that it cannot bear the shock of seeing it properly used.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

darcee:

You have no way of knowing what caused anyone to know the baby referred to in the first post was nursing. Could it have been milky lips? Maybe an educated guess at what the baby under the blanket was doing?

My last word on this, neither do you know what caused someone to comment on this.

I hate to break it to you, but breast feeding is NOT more then feeding a baby… it is exactly and just and not more then that.

Then again, is the Liturgy the right place to satisify our human urges and needs?

Woman breast feed their children because that is how God designed our bodies to work.

No argument here, but God designed our bodies to do other things that we do not do during the Liturgy where everyone can watch.

Small infants don’t understand this idea that there is a time and place for everything…

Again, no argument here, but the mother sure should understand this.

 

[Almeria]

ByzCath:

Then again, is the Liturgy the right place to satisify our human urges and needs?

Mothers are not satisfying their needs, they are satisfying the needs of an infant. It’s the baby’s needs. Others have posted (I haven’t been gifted with a baby yet, so I have to rely on their word, which I have no reason to doubt) that a 3 month old can’t be “topped off”; when they need to eat, they need to eat, and won’t take it at another time. This is very different from a 2 year old wanting a snack.

ByzCath:

Again, no argument here, but the mother sure should understand this.

I’m not quite sure what you want the mother to understand. Yes, the mom knows that when the baby wants food, it should be fed. Thus, she nurses when needed. Are you trying to say that since the baby needs nursed at the baby’s whim, the mother of a nursing baby should avoid going to Mass until the kid is older?