Nursing Mothers

[loyola_rambler]

daniellet:

I am not going to argue with you any further. I find your attitude to be venemous and highly uncharitable. I am discreet when I breastfeed and I am sure that it is ok with my Lord if I nurse my baby whom he has entrusted me with at His mass. I don’t need you to determine whether or not I am doing something in bad taste.

My youngest is only 27 months old, and he’s the 4th baby I nursed. Nothing, but nothing, gives any of us the right to make other people uncomfortable by nursing during mass. You call it venomous, I call it good taste. As someone said earlier, it’s the whole “in your face” attitude about nursing that is so offensive.

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

I attend a Latin Mass where alot of people nurse during Mass. I don’t recall anyone “fiddling with their breast”. Some of the attempts here to compare breastfeeding with other “bodily functions” are unfair and uncalled for. If it makes you uncomfortable, just say so. Sometimes I’ve nursed at Mass, sometimes not. It depended upon where I was sitting and who was near me.

 

[darcee]

loyola rambler:

My youngest is only 27 months old, and he’s the 4th baby I nursed. Nothing, but nothing, gives any of us the right to make other people uncomfortable by nursing during mass. You call it venomous, I call it good taste. As someone said earlier, it’s the whole “in your face” attitude about nursing that is so offensive.

If you honestly are noticing if the baby in another pew is nursing or not YOUR attention is not where it should be. There is NO WAY you could possibly know if a woman three pews away was nursing a baby unless you were paying an undue amount of attention to what was going on with other parishioners and not enough attention to the mass.

-D

 

[WhiteDove]

Here here, Darcee!!! Well said!

Why not close your eyes and focus on Christ? It’s a good exersise in tolerance and detachment, too, to ignore things in others that irritate you. I’ve been working on this myself. We all have different things that ‘offend’ us. Let’s try not take our own particular sensitivities too seriously and try and be more ‘charitable’!

 

[Toni]

loyola rambler:

It’s not something to be done during mass. Just as people shouldn’t be listening to the radio, watching TV, playing poker, changing tampons or airing their stinky feet in the middle of the church during mass. There’s a right place for everything, and frankly mass isn’t the place for “satisfying” any of your bodily needs. I’m sorry if you’re offended by it, but hey you’re hardly the only woman who’s ever breastfed and some of us who did never considered it our right to feed our child during a sacred mass. That’s why there are cry rooms, rest rooms, private automobiles and small rooms in the back of church…so you can take care of such things without violating propriety.

I do not believe that you could compare nursing an infant to any of these things. I do think if Mary was here with Jesus today she would not deprive him of nursing because society throws these silly rules around. Breastfeeding is a far cry from playing poker, watching tv or any of the things you have mentioned. I told my daughter I would get the opinion of the forum, I will be sure to tell her not to do the things you have mentioned, but feeding her child God would not deprive an infant pleeeaaassseeee!

 

[loyola_rambler]

darcee:

If you honestly are noticing if the baby in another pew is nursing or not YOUR attention is not where it should be. There is NO WAY you could possibly know if a woman three pews away was nursing a baby unless you were paying an undue amount of attention to what was going on with other parishioners and not enough attention to the mass.

-D

Sorry to differ with you, but my church is in the round. A woman directly across the altar from us is fully visible to 8 pews of people. If you think my analogies are unduly harsh, then imagine what a 63 y/o man thinks when he has to witness it. Not all women are as discreet as some of you think you are. In fact, I’d bet many of you who claim to be so discreet are less so than you think.

This isn’t the matter of anyone having a “right” to nurse in public. It’s the matter of the proper place and the proper time. When did women throw out good manners in the name of breastfeeding?

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

loyola rambler:

Sorry to differ with you, but my church is in the round. A woman directly across the altar from us is fully visible to 8 pews of people. If you think my analogies are unduly harsh, then imagine what a 63 y/o man thinks when he has to witness it. Not all women are as discreet as some of you think you are. In fact, I’d bet many of you who claim to be so discreet are less so than you think.

This isn’t the matter of anyone having a “right” to nurse in public. It’s the matter of the proper place and the proper time. When did women throw out good manners in the name of breastfeeding?

Were your analogies indicative of your good manners?

 

[jeanine]

loyola rambler:

Sorry to differ with you, but my church is in the round. A woman directly across the altar from us is fully visible to 8 pews of people. If you think my analogies are unduly harsh, then imagine what a 63 y/o man thinks when he has to witness it. Not all women are as discreet as some of you think you are. In fact, I’d bet many of you who claim to be so discreet are less so than you think.

This isn’t the matter of anyone having a “right” to nurse in public. It’s the matter of the proper place and the proper time. When did women throw out good manners in the name of breastfeeding?

i so totally agree w/ loyola…i am sorry but there is a time and a place for everything…as far as people not paying attention to the alter…that is not true…you can be praying and worshiping and noticing a toddler nursing at the same time…

i also take offense to the peron(s) who talked about how awlful it was to put ‘plastic’ in a childs mouth…meaning a bottle…i have got to tell you, my first child absolutely would not nurse…there was not a mom alive on this earth who wanted to nurse her baby more than me…but she just would not, so i had to give her the BA so that she would get her nutriion…and believe me, i dont want to hear from all the lacation consultats that i failed…i had 2 in my house helping me…she is amazing and does not know the difference. i i was successful w/ my second child all the way to the 12 months and beyond…no one here should be judging whether a mom BF or bottle feeds…there is only one that can judge…we are just saying that it is not neccessary during a 45 -60 minute mass. have a great night! god bless.

 

[darcee]

loyola rambler:

Sorry to differ with you, but my church is in the round. A woman directly across the altar from us is fully visible to 8 pews of people. If you think my analogies are unduly harsh, then imagine what a 63 y/o man thinks when he has to witness it. Not all women are as discreet as some of you think you are. In fact, I’d bet many of you who claim to be so discreet are less so than you think.

This isn’t the matter of anyone having a “right” to nurse in public. It’s the matter of the proper place and the proper time. When did women throw out good manners in the name of breastfeeding?

Oh please… first off you have no way of knowing how discreet anyone is or is not unless you have seen them. You have absolutly no right to call into question any one else’s modesty.

Exactly what are these 63 y/o men witnessing, a woman adjusting a bra strap, a baby slipping under a blanket. Have you honestly seen a woman exposing anything while nursing in your church? I haven’t.

I have NEVER seen a woman expose anything while nursing in mass. I imagine that 63 year old man is focused on the altar and is not at all concerned with what baby is or is not doing under a nursing shawl, blanket or baggy shirt.

Editing to add. It is better manners to quietly sit through mass and discreetly nurse then get up and leave during mass or to have a crying infant in mass. On the scale of rudeness staring at a mother to figure out if she is nursing or not is pretty poor taste.

-D

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

Actually, sometimes it is necessary to nurse during a Mass. Especially if you have a newborn, don’t use pacifiers, and it’s a Latin High Mass(about an hour or longer)!

 

[jess7396]

“IMO- this shows how strangely our priorities are placed–better to put plastic in a child’s mouth than to feed/comfort him as God designed us?”

To the person offended by my mentioning plastic—I am sorry you took it that way, but I can say- you are making a choice to be offended, what I said was not bashing bottle feeding, but pointing out that raising it “above” nursing as a way to feed is misguided. I too, bottle fed my first child when I was not able to feed her solely nursing, I do not judge women who bottlefeed, I was simply pointing out that it is ridiculous to say that bottlefeeding (at the very least NOT natural or the God-designed way) in Mass is acceptable, but nursing is not. I venture to guess that no one is “offended” by a bottle feeding baby eating during Mass, and I think that it is sad that bottlefeeding would be acceptable where nursing is not.

I am upset that it has been suggested that a nursing mom should pump and give her baby a plastic nipple during Mass instead of the nipple God made the baby to drink from.

ITA with Darcee that people need to work harder at paying attention to the altar instead of trying to see what a baby and mother are doing, and yes, nursing the baby discreetly is better manners and less distraction (to people not playing "nursing police) than taking the baby out.

As I read through this thread I am continually thankful for my Church and the parishoners there, I didn’t realize how bad things could be for nursing moms out there .

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

darcee:

If you honestly are noticing if the baby in another pew is nursing or not YOUR attention is not where it should be. There is NO WAY you could possibly know if a woman three pews away was nursing a baby unless you were paying an undue amount of attention to what was going on with other parishioners and not enough attention to the mass.

darcee,
I am sorry that I am not as perfect as you are. I am a human being and things distract me, most of them shouldn’t, but they still do.

You must remember that we are fallen beings.

I would also add that it seems that those of you on the pro-breastfeeding at mass crowd seem to wish to vilify those of us who are against it. This is very uncharitable behavior. Please address our issues and not attack us personally.

I would hate for any of my actions to cause a distraction for someone at the Liturgy. I would hate for any of my actions to cause someone to sin.

You can scream about your rights, but please remember the rights of others too.

There is a time and place for everything. You would not change a dirty diaper in the pew (this name would really fit if you did though) during the Liturgy.

Please tell me why you think it is the appropriate time to breast feed during the Liturgy.

As one of my favorite quotes says…

The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.
– Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

[daniellet]

ByzCath:

You can scream about your rights, but please remember the rights of others too.

.

This isn’t about the rights of mothers, this is about the needs of babies, particularly young ones.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

daniellet:

This isn’t about the rights of mothers, this is about the needs of babies, particularly young ones.

If it isn’t about the rights of the mothers to feed at mass then whats the fuss? Leave the Church to do it? Feed before mass?

 

[daniellet]

It would seem to me that if breastfeeding in mass is offensive to God and such a problem that we would have some official guidance on the subject. I would happily make other arrangements if I were taught that bf is not appropriate. But every document (or quote) I have ever found on breastfeeding from the Church has stressed the importance and virtue of the act. I have never ever ever read “but it shouldn’t be done in mass”.

 

[jess7396]

I have to ask again, if you do not see any breast while someone is nursing, why is it a problem?

Those of us on the pro-BFing side are not the ones who seek to vilify, the OP said her daughter is getting negative comments for nursing during Mass, THAT is uncharitable.

I am distracted by lots of things during Mass and I work to overcome it.

As far as “rights” go, I believe a child’s right to nourishment and comfort is paramount to the right of someone not to see a blanket over a shoulder.

I think the burden should not be on nursing moms to prove why it is ok to nurse (as God designed us this way) in Mass, but on those judging to prove why DISCREET nursing is wrong. We all agree that INDISCREET nursing would be wrong, so let’s hear arguments as to why DISCREET nursing is wrong.

I think some posters here are confusing the nursing moms posting here with indiscreet/in your face people they have seen IRL. We posting here, are likely so discreet that you don’t even realize we exist in your Churches, that is the point, don’t go peeking under blankets or imagining what is happening under there,and there should be no problem.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

daniellet:

It would seem to me that if breastfeeding in mass is offensive to God and such a problem that we would have some official guidance on the subject. I would happily make other arrangements if I were taught that bf is not appropriate. But every document (or quote) I have ever found on breastfeeding from the Church has stressed the importance and virtue of the act. I have never ever ever read “but it shouldn’t be done in mass”.

The issue is not is it offensive to God. There are many things that are not offensive to God, like reading a book, drinking a beer, eating McDonalds, having a picnic, watching a move, etc, but I would not do any of those things during the Liturgy.

What is the issue is that this action may be, at best, a distraction to others or, at worst, an occasion of sin for others.

To ignore this is wrong.

 

[mercygate]

Following this thread, despite the unfortunate heat, points have been raised that your daughter might consider.

Many have stated that it IS possible to nurse unobtrusively, without drawing attention to oneself. I believe them but how would I know? I couldn’t do it myself, and if mothers are being unobtrusive, then I HAVEN’T seen it – and that’s the point! Therefore, if your daughter is attracting attention, perhaps she is simply stilll new at breastfeeding and has not yet acquired that skill? Or does she, in fact, make breastfeeding a political issue? For example, you do not mention the age of the baby. A nursing two-year-old is quite a different thing from a two-month-old, as some mothers have noted in this discussion.

If your daughter is demonstrating for a cause, then she should not be troubled by negative reaction. As a nursing mother, I attended 90-minute Masses from the first Sunday our first child was born, and rarely found it necessary to nurse during Mass, so it is hard to imagine that there may not be at least some point-making going on here.

When your daughter encounters negative comments, she might reply: “I’m so sorry it bothers you; I realize some people might find it awkward, but I have no intention of being offensive.”

What critic wouldn’t be disarmed by that? No need to soap-box about what their attitude SHOULD be, and she doesn’t give up on doing what she feels is right for her baby. ":twocents:

 

[theresa]

I have nursed six kids through the years and through many Masses. Sometimes babies get hungry! And sometimes they just want to be comforted. I do know that with my first child I wasn’t very slick at hiding what was going on as I nursed so my family would try to sit in the back row so as not disturb anyone during the Mass. But after a while and with practice I got pretty good at being so discreet that people were not aware of my baby nursing. If they were, I never heard any pro or con comments, ever. All I ever heard were compliments on how good the baby was during Mass. As the kids grew older, we began sitting in the front row because it kept the older kids’ attention better. So, now I was nursing in the front row. I don’t recall ever feeling like I was on display. I was just always careful to keep myself and the baby covered so nothing would show. It can be done. And so what if people make a rude or critical comment? If I listened to everyone’s opinion and lived my life to please others, I would not have six kids. And I wouldn’t practice NFP. And I wouldn’t have ever tried home schooling. And I wouldn’t be a CATHOLIC!

 

[Catholicforlife]

I would like to point out not every baby fits into your ideal schedules of feeding before you go. My daughter, no problem, nurse before we left. My son, HA! He wanted to nurse all the time as an infant. It was rare he could go an hour. He also had weight gaining issues. No way would I put him off till I got home, he needed to eat and that was that. Not to mention that when you are trying to get a house full ready for mass, you don’t always have a half hour to sit and nurse. Can’t nurse in the car on the way there. I always used a blanket and tried to sit in the rear with my daughter on one side, husband on the other. Did everyone know what I was doing, I am sure. Just as you know when a baby is being fed by a bottle. Did anyone ever see a bit of my skin, no way! How does my baby eating under a blanket affect anyone’s “rights”? Feeding a baby is natural thing. If I choose to breast feed, I shouldn’t be forced to use a bottle because someone is unnerved by what is going on under my blanket! Our society is so over sexed, so immersed in thinking of a woman’s body as a sex object the thought of a breast being out of a shirt throws people into a panic. Step out of the secular world. Our bodies were made to nurse for a reason. A breast isnt’ some sexy thing, it was made to nourish our children. Anyone with a wife who has nursed a baby can attest that a working breast isnt’ sexy!
Switching back and forth can cause problems. my daughter weaned abruptly once introduced to a bottle. I wasn’t going through that again (never mind my son refused the bottle, rather vocally).
Another thing about going to the cry room; when I have an infant no way am I going to take that baby into the cry room full of toddlers which translates to full of germs. Infants don’t need to be around a bunch of sneezing, coughing, toddlers who aren’t old enough to cover their mouths. So the cry room is not always a good option, especially in cold and flu season. Never mind a lot of babies, mine included can’t nurse when there is a room full of screaming kids. They call it a cry room for a reason. And the bathroom is the last place I want to eat! Sitting on a toilet to nurse, not very sanitary for anyone.
Tell your daughter to check the laws in her state. In a lot states, it is illegal to tell a nursing mom not to nurse.