NYTimes: Fahr and Benedict.

[whatevergirl]

To heck with the numbers. Here is the real misinformation: Most reported cases involved boys in their early teens. That is not pedophelia, it is homosexuality. But the media won’t report that because it reflects badly on homosexuals. Instead the media incites anger by calling it pedophelia. That is a fact that Catholics need to tune in to.

*Rape often happens too, to adults. So…all it took was for a priest to overpower a young man…no, it might not be pedophilia in ALL cases, but it’s still an outrage if a priest was abusing his position to intimidate or force teen boys to do sexual things with him. Women are raped every 6 seconds in the U.S., and it’s not any less of a crime than pedophilia. *

 

[chaunceygardner]

Not to mention, the vast number of cases are ephebophilia, not pedophilia. Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19

I don’t always like blaming it on some else if you know what I mean, but this is homosexuality.

Catholic Knight says, In the overwhelming vast majority of cases where sexual abuse was reported in the Catholic Church, the alleged victim was a male between the ages of 12 and 18. Victims younger than 12 were almost never reported, and sexual abuse of females was also rare. This is not the clinical definition of pedophilia. It is however a type of predatory homosexuality that seeks to take advantage of underage young men. Therefore the term “pedophile priests” is a misnomer and not based on hard statistical data. A more accurate term should be “predatory homosexual priests.”

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2010/03/catholic-sex-abuse-scandal-and-cover-up.html

In the reports that I have read detailing circumstances of individual cases, there are several instances where Priests had sexual relations with boys and with girls or women! It may have been that boys were involved more frequently due to the ability of the Priests to associate with them more freely than with girls. But in other situations noted, there was abuse and sexual activity with girls. It was often, apparently, a matter of who was available.

So perhaps we should use the term “sexually predatory priests”.

And you state that the Catholic Knights mention “reported” cases…As we know from the studies and reports, there seems to be a constant indication that the number of cases or instances is well above the number reported. And who would be more likely to report this? A 7 year old, or a 17 year old? And who would be more likely to be believed? Again, from the reports I have reviewed, it is clear that many instances of abuse reported by younger children were dismissed, either by their parents (??), by Priests or teachers, or by other authorities. Whose word do you accept? That of a 7 year old “confused” child or a respected Priest and his Bishop? The deck was clearly stacked against the victims.

People are attacking the messenger and giving a pass to all those who allowed this atrocity to continue unchecked for decades. Why is that?

 

[whatevergirl]

*The thing about the NY Times’ ‘‘misinformation,’’ is it likens it to when you see a trial, and a lawyer yells out something a jury should never hear, but the judge tells the jury to ignore it…but it’s really too late. Like this, the NY Times just runs with misinformation, and then apologizes afterwards, but the damage is done. Too late to retract the words once they’re out there. *

 

[IHeartBenedict]

*Rape often happens too, to adults. So…all it took was for a priest to overpower a young man…no, it might not be pedophilia in ALL cases, but it’s still an outrage if a priest was abusing his position to intimidate or force teen boys to do sexual things with him. Women are raped every 6 seconds in the U.S., and it’s not any less of a crime than pedophilia. *

Yes, you are right. But one must understand the what the actual problem is before one can come up with a remedy. Since the main problem is homosexuality, the remedy is to ban homosexuals from Seminaries, where they are currently deeply rooted.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, you are right. But one must understand the what the actual problem is before one can come up with a remedy. Since the main problem is homosexuality, the remedy is to ban homosexuals from Seminaries, where they are currently deeply rooted.

*Yes, that’s true. I think there was/is a twofold problem…not letting men into seminaries who have sexual disorders of any type, would be the solution. I think we’re getting there now, Pope Benedict seems to have some great new protocols in place. I firmly believe that sometimes in life, serious tragedies have to happen, in order for reform to take place. We can see that with so much in our history, the holocaust, slavery, women not being permitted to vote (although that pendulum swung into radical feminism)…etc. Sometimes it takes many to suffer, before someone wakes up and says…’‘something is really wrong here, and we need some changes.’’ I pray for our Church. *

 

[lemonbeam]

In the reports that I have read detailing circumstances of individual cases, there are several instances where Priests had sexual relations with boys and with girls or women! It may have been that boys were involved more frequently due to the ability of the Priests to associate with them more freely than with girls. But in other situations noted, there was abuse and sexual activity with girls. It was often, apparently, a matter of who was available.

So perhaps we should use the term “sexually predatory priests”.

And you state that the Catholic Knights mention “reported” cases…As we know from the studies and reports, there seems to be a constant indication that the number of cases or instances is well above the number reported. And who would be more likely to report this? A 7 year old, or a 17 year old? And who would be more likely to be believed? Again, from the reports I have reviewed, it is clear that many instances of abuse reported by younger children were dismissed, either by their parents (??), by Priests or teachers, or by other authorities. Whose word do you accept? That of a 7 year old “confused” child or a respected Priest and his Bishop? The deck was clearly stacked against the victims.

People are attacking the messenger and giving a pass to all those who allowed this atrocity to continue unchecked for decades. Why is that?

When are you talking about? Are you decades ago, or now? Because we know things are different now, since all the reforms put in place and the child protection.

‘‘As we know from the studies and reports, there seems to be a constant indication that the number of cases or instances is well above the number reported.’’

Where did you get that from? I haven’t heard that anywhere. Have you got any evidence to support that? There is no way any case would be dismissed now if someone reported abuse. There is a Zero Tolerance policy on abusers since 2002. If a credible accusation is made against a cleric, they are permanently removed from ministry regardless of how long ago the offense occurred.

The Catholic Church has done more to protect children than almost any other organization in the United States. Consider:

• Safe Environment training is taking place in 193 dioceses/eparchies of the country. Over 2 million adults have been trained to recognize the behavior of offenders and what to do about it.
• Background checks are conducted on Church personnel who have contact with children. Over 2 million volunteers and employees; 52,000 clerics; 6,205 candidates for ordination have had their backgrounds evaluated.
• All dioceses/eparchies have Codes of Conduct spelling out what is acceptable behavior. This serves to let people know what can and cannot be done as well as letting others know what behavior can be expected. It encourages the reporting of suspicious behavior.
• All dioceses/eparchies have Victim Assistance Coordinators, assuring victims that they will be heard. In 2009, $6,536,109 was spent on therapy for the victims of clergy sexual abuse.
• All dioceses/eparchies have Safe Environment Coordinators who assure the ongoing
  compliance to the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People.
  Bishops are meeting with victims.
• Dioceses/eparchies have Healing Masses, retreats for victim/survivors and other
• reconciliation events.
• There is a Zero Tolerance policy on abusers since 2002. If a credible accusation is made against a cleric, they are permanently removed from ministry regardless of how long ago the offense occurred.
• Dioceses/eparchies require intensive background screening as well as psychological
  testing for those wishing to enter the seminary.

The Catholic Church has worked hard to protect children. Much has done but more needs to be done. Until child sexual abuse is no longer a part of society, the Church will continue its efforts to stop it.

catholicbook.org/ocyp/capmonth/what-has-cc-done-stop-sexual-abuse.pdf

 

[chaunceygardner]

Abuse is abuse. No matter what age. No matter what sexuality

My point too! It does not lessen the impact to place labels on some of it to make it appear consensual.

And can you stop stereotyping all Catholics as being one thing, it’s ridiculous.

I am sorry, but I do not understand your request. Where did I stereotype Catholics? Rather, I said that some people are doing a disservice to their Church and fellow Catholics by trying to shoot the messenger, or rationalize what happened, or even deny the extent of it. I am saying that the best course is to face reality, admit the errors, and take decisive action.

I truly know that there is a wide range of “kinds” of Catholics, and many, like me, would like to see their institutional Church start acting more appropriately.

What denomination do you belong to?

I am a Disciple of Jesus, as it says above. I believe most Catholics would consider themselves that, as well.

 

[lemonbeam]

My point too! It does not lessen the impact to place labels on some of it to make it appear consensual.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I agree with your chauncey…I think things will be changing for the better now, though. It took a long time, UNFORTUNATELY for this stuff to all come out. But, we can only go up, when we’ve hit bottom. I do think some Catholics want to make excuses for what happened…I hear it with family and friends. But, there are none. I am a devout Catholic, and I won’t excuse what happened. But, how to look at this is like this…the Church didn’t make these men turn bad, they entered the priesthood as damaged, ill men…and the Church didn’t do anything when they found out wrong doings were happening. There will always be immorality and sin everywhere…in every religious, educational, workplace group. It’s because of our fallen nature. That said, that doesn’t excuse it, but it shows that reform was and is needed in our clergy. We’re a human Church, and humans sin…the Church still remains in tact, it’s the people within it, that we need to make sure are living holy lives and looking out for the best interests of others.

I think that we’re on the road to making things better, it just is heartbreaking that any of this took place for so long. *

 

[anode]

*An article on Thursday about the fallout from the Roman Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Europe misstated the estimated number of children in Ireland who were victims, according to two government reports last year. The report said the children numbered in the tens of thousands, not the “hundreds of thousands.”
*

The above is the quote from the New York Times regarding its error.

The abuse victims numbering only in the tens of thousands–in Ireland, a small country, with a population at about 4 million. Say, this percentage in the US, at 200 million, would be 500,000 victims.

Do you get the impact of having ‘only’ 10,000 victims? And it is certain that there were many more.

Anti-abortions like to argue that even *one *abortion is too many. What about only one case of pedophilia? Isn’t that too many also?

 

[chaunceygardner]

When are you talking about? Are you decades ago, or now? Because we know things are different now, since all the reforms put in place and the child protection.

Yes, decades ago, since most of what we are talking about occurred in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. With some earlier and some later. Things may be different now, but the issue involves what was done and wasn’t done over the past 60 years or so. I would hope improvements have been made!

‘‘As we know from the studies and reports, there seems to be a constant indication that the number of cases or instances is well above the number reported.’’

Where did you get that from? I haven’t heard that anywhere. Have you got any evidence to support that? There is no way any case would be dismissed now if someone reported abuse. There is a Zero Tolerance policy on abusers since 2002. If a credible accusation is made against a cleric, they are permanently removed from ministry regardless of how long ago the offense occurred.

The actual reports are available on-line. There is the major study done of the Irish Catholic orphanage and group home conditions, that covers a time period from the 1930’s on up. There is the report issued last year about the Irish Priest abuse problem, again covering a period starting 70 years ago, continuing into the 2000’s. This was done by and for two Dioceses. Those are two very well researched and reputable studies. In each the commissioners state that the number of cases that occurred far exceed the number they uncovered or could document. How do they know this? They may have documented 50 cases about a Priest, but have testimony by victims, by other knowledgable people, and by the Priests themselves that many more occurrred. They also know that while some dioceses, orders and homes kept records of reported cases, not all did, and some records were deliberately destroyed to avoid disclosure. Even Bishops testified to that!

I would recommend that you read those reports, although they do run into the hundreds and hundreds of pages. It will certainly enlighten you, and if you have any compassion at all, will likely make you physically ill, and hopefully very, very angry. Especially when you realize that this is one small part of the Catholic world and then consider what that could mean.

Peace and Blessings, along with a prayer for forgiveness and healing.

 

[whatevergirl]

*An article on Thursday about the fallout from the Roman Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Europe misstated the estimated number of children in Ireland who were victims, according to two government reports last year. The report said the children numbered in the tens of thousands, not the “hundreds of thousands.”
*

The above is the quote from the New York Times regarding its error.

The abuse victims numbering only in the tens of thousands–in Ireland, a small country, with a population at about 4 million. Say, this percentage in the US, at 200 million, would be 500,000 victims.

Do you get the impact of having ‘only’ 10,000 victims? And it is certain that there were many more.

Anti-abortions like to argue that even *one *abortion is too many. What about only one case of pedophilia? Isn’t that too many also?

*The thing I find troubling, it occured to me this morning, is how many generations of people will never know the Truth and beauty of the Church, because of what happened to their dads, and moms? That is a number to think about. How many people turned away from the faith way back when because of their pain and suffering and seeing nothing was being done, and how many did their pain affect as a result?

I don’t mean to throw salt into a wound, but we have to be real here. The people who were abused weren’t the only ones affected…they were hurt the worst…but how about their children, whom might never have been taught the faith, because those who were abused left the Church in protest and in pain? But, that’s a sobering thought, and as Catholics I have to face that, this was like a stone dropped in a pond…the ripples are still happening from the abuses. *

 

[lemonbeam]

Yes, decades ago, since most of what we are talking about occurred in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. With some earlier and some later. Things may be different now, but the issue involves what was done and wasn’t done over the past 60 years or so. I would hope improvements have been made!

 

[spn82756]

*The thing I find troubling, it occured to me this morning, is how many generations of people will never know the Truth and beauty of the Church, because of what happened to their dads, and moms? That is a number to think about. How many people turned away from the faith way back when because of their pain and suffering and seeing nothing was being done, and how many did their pain affect as a result?

I don’t mean to throw salt into a wound, but we have to be real here. The people who were abused weren’t the only ones affected…they were hurt the worst…but how about their children, whom might never have been taught the faith, because those who were abused left the Church in protest and in pain? But, that’s a sobering thought, and as Catholics I have to face that, this was like a stone dropped in a pond…the ripples are still happening from the abuses. *

I believe you’ve hit on something that is often overlooked…but sadly so true. I will never leave the CC over this…because my faith is in Christ is strong. My faith in the Church that He started is strong. My faith in some of it’s leaders is often tried.

 

[whatevergirl]

I believe you’ve hit on something that is often overlooked…but sadly so true. I will never leave the CC over this…because my faith is in Christ is strong. My faith in the Church that He started is strong. My faith in some of it’s leaders is often tried.

Yes…I would never leave, either. (I also wasn’t abused, I think if I were, my faith in the Church as a whole, would have definitely been shaken, so I don’t blame someone if they did leave over it) I love the Church, have been Catholic all my life…and believe this is Christ’s one True Church. The fullness of faith. We need some reform though, as it relates to who we’re permitting into the seminaries, though. God bless you, and let’s pray together. :hug1:

 

[lemonbeam]

Yes…I would never leave, either. (I also wasn’t abused, I think if I were, my faith in the Church as a whole, would have definitely been shaken, so I don’t blame someone if they did leave over it) I love the Church, have been Catholic all my life…and believe this is Christ’s one True Church. The fullness of faith. We need some reform though, as it relates to who we’re permitting into the seminaries, though. God bless you, and let’s pray together. :hug1:

In a small way, it’s a good thing what is happening. Cover ups don’t work. It has to all be out in the open. Then we can start with a clean slate.

For the Lord’s Cleansing, Defense, and Governance of the Church

May your continual pity, O Lord, cleanse and defend Your Church; and, because without you she cannot endure in safety, may she ever be governed by Your bounty. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, Who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, world without end. Amen.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

In a small way, it’s a good thing what is happening. Cover ups don’t work. It has to all be out in the open. Then we can start with a clean slate…

I see what you mean. But just think of all the people who have had their faiths shaken and left the Church, and other who may have come in but now will not. That is a tradgedy.

 

[whatevergirl]

I see what you mean. But just think of all the people who have had their faiths shaken and left the Church, and other who may have come in but now will not. That is a tradgedy.

*Nothing lasts forever, hopefully, the stain here will not last forever. But, we must never forget what happened, as to not have a repeat of this. I don’t ever see this happening again from the standpoint of coverups…but if any children are ever harmed again by clergy, I am of the confident opinion, the priest(s) will be dealt with appropriately this time. *

 

[lemonbeam]

I see what you mean. But just think of all the people who have had their faiths shaken and left the Church, and other who may have come in but now will not. That is a tradgedy.

I think people know though there have been great failures, reforms have been taken, such scandals can never happen, and that’s why the news media is trying to drag it out. They’re trying to get every last drop.

 

[Zatzat]

They did misquote, I think the title is accurate. I doubt they did it with any sinister motive, but many people have pointed out that their reporting this week has not been great. A lot of suspicion portrayed as fact.

The reporting has been fantastic. They’ve brought cases of past priestly abuse into the light of day where it belongs.