Moral grounds? What exactly is the moral ground of caring for others? Not agreeing with you politically?Bishops and priests are called to serve those under their authority,so they are accountable to the laity is some ways. It does not require any special clerical authority to judge a bishop or priest on moral grounds,it only requires moral discernment.
If the law is changed and we have reform, they would not be breaking in. It is perfectly “American” to fight to change laws one considers unjust, democracy being what it is.But we don’t welcome foreigners with either prudential judgement or charity by having the government legalize and pay them for breaking into the country.
That question doesn’t make sense. Do you mean what is the moral ground for opposing caring for others? Immigration reform as it is being proposed involves having the government act unjustly by rewarding people for having trespassed into the country in pursuit of money.Moral grounds? What exactly is the moral ground of caring for others?
My opposition to immigration reform is not just about politics,it is about moral judgement.Not agreeing with you politically?
That would be the undoing of the significance of borders and nationality and citizenship and lawful behavior.If the law is changed and we have reform,they would not be breaking in.
Yes,and there are many people who oppose laws that would reward people for people for coming into the country unlawfully and working here unlawfully. The laws against illegal entry and illegal employment are not unjust.It is perfectly “American” to fight to change laws one considers unjust, democracy being what it is.
The demonstrates the fallacy of the entire thread: there is no moral side here and it is simply wrong to suggest that those who oppose the bishops’ political agenda don’t care about others. That is not what the debate over immigration is about.Moral grounds? What exactly is the moral ground of caring for others?
That’s right, it is subjective and the Bishops have authored a statements on immigration.The demonstrates the fallacy of the entire thread: there is no moral side here and it is simply wrong to suggest that those who oppose the bishops’ political agenda don’t care about others. That is not what the debate over immigration is about.
Ender
This is well-said.The problem with the immigration reform proposal is that involves having the government grant citizenship and welfare benefits to people for having trespassed into the country,and to their children. That is not social justice. It is not the Christian way of welcoming foreigners. We can welcome foreigners personally or as communities,with prudential judgement as well as charity. But we don’t welcome foreigners with either prudential judgement or charity by having the government legalize and pay them for breaking into the country.
Thanks. It can be difficult to explain why certain government policies which are many think are charity or social justice are not charity or truly just,because when people expect the government to always take care of people in need,they confuse the proper understanding of Christian responsibility of caring for others,and it neglects prudential judgement. If we leave it to the government to always help people in need,we give up control over how they are helped,because we are not doing it. People don’t like to give up control over how they treat their children or other relatives or friends or homeless people they see,because they want to use their own judgement. So it is misguided for Catholics to leave it to the government to help illegal immigrants in general and thus give up Church control over how they are helped.This is well-said.
So you say your position is based on your moral bishop but you criticize the position of every bishop who has spoken on the topic as immoral? Or can find one single bishop that agrees with you that immigration reform is immoral.My opposition to immigration reform is not just about politics,it is about moral judgement.
That is a matter of opinion and one I do not share. Immigration favors those that contribute and is in direct contradiction to the Catholic social doctrine of preference for the poor, as opposed to preference against the poor. This is why I am of the opinion the current law is unjust.Yes,and there are many people who oppose laws that would reward people for people for coming into the country unlawfully and working here unlawfully. The laws against illegal entry and illegal employment are not unjust.
No, I have never favored amnesty. I also recognize that while we have moral values that we use in evaluating immigration, as well as doctrine, there is no “right” Catholic answer. I would never call anyone’s position immoral, though some ideas can violate one or more Catholic social doctrine. Theoretically, this could be a result of a perceived (or real) double effect.It is very open to interpretation, even if someone relates it’s about caring as PNewton said, the poster is not for amnesty either: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11861577&postcount=29