Obama Admin knew millions could not keep their health ins.

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Ridgerunner said:
We know now that people with private plans are in a world of hurt and will probably all be forced onto the exchanges.

We know now that “small employer” plans are very limited as to insurers and providers. So far, it looks like my area has only one of each. And, because of mandates, they’re expensive. So a lot of employees of small businesses will probably also go onto the exchanges. If employers try to “make up for” the lack of employer-provided insurance with money, employees’ taxes and those of employers will increase.

Now we can all speculate on what the big employer part is going to be like.

-It will be more expensive, of course, because of mandates. employees will be expected to pay more than they did before. So will employers, so prices have to increase.

-But employers will try to avoid charging more than (what is it now?) 9.5% of each employee’s income for the employee-paid part. So, they’ll need new people and programs to figure all of that out.

-On the low end of the salary scale, employers will have a tremendous incentive to put them on part time, because if they go over 30 employees that go on the exchanges because of the 9.5% cap, they get fined for every employee they have, whether insured or not. For an employer with, say, 100,000 employees, that would be about $2 million/year.

-On the high end, the 40% tax on “cadillac plans” will perhaps require special withholding. I’m not sure where the IRS is with that just yet.

-Labor problems where the labor force is organized are likely, since union-administered plans are pretty much “cadillac” plans. Are union members really going to just do nothing to get somebody else to pay for it, or will they engage in strikes and slowdowns in order to get more money? If they do, of course, prices will have to go up.

-On the positive side, it’s possible a lot of overtime will be available for full time employees. Their additional pay will not cause either theirs or the employer’s Obamacare costs to go up, and full time workers will probably much better skilled and motivated than all the “second class” part-timers.

-The “well worker effect” will disappear due to portability. So, disproportionately lower premiums for industrial workers will gradually disappear. If employer coverage is truly portable, further administration on the part of insurers will be required.

As a separate matter, as time goes on, Medicare reimbursement will fall below that of medicaid, and elderly people will be S.O.L. when it comes to medical care.

I don’t know.*** Kind of looks to me like Obama and his people have punched a hole in the hull of the “ship of state” that’s too big to plug. ***And that’s if they don’t control congress after 2014 and do something even more insane.

And, of course, eventually even Janet Yellen will have to stop the quantitative easing Bernanke has employed to ameliorate the effects of this disasterous administration.

Not looking too good.
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Red above … and boldings, etc. … my emphasis

Thanks for your detailed analysis and hard work Ridgerunner (and many other times).

I’m horrified with the proliferation of spying and information gathering “our government” is doing everywhere (home and abroad) these days. Having control of health care means potentially mapping each citizen from the inside out. Scary!

That “punched a hole in the ship of state …” line - I think I agree with. Question is:
  • was this a particularly stupid accident … or something else
(unto - moving away from the “stupid” side of the scale):

– a brilliant, deviously planned preliminary to Obama’s promised “transformation of America”)? < That is, the wrecking ball that clears the way to the long promised utopia. :rolleyes:

When I think of the invasion of individual privacy we often submit to when we put ourselves into things like hospital care … and then consider the dark possibility :onpatrol: that our most personal medical info might be used against us one day by an all powerful government … a scripture came to mind from Psalm 22.
They have pierced my hands and my feet, they have numbered all of my bones.
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Jesus quoted Psalm 22 while on the cross. Some of his followers also suffered martyrdoms at the hands of an all-powerful state. The evil people the Psalmist complains of (and warns his readers of?) have almost total power, almost no compassion nor mercy,
and a hunger to play God with their increasing knowledge by “numbering all the bones” as God assures us “Even all the hairs of your head are counted” (by Him).

The US system of checks and balances precludes the easy rise of a state that rules over its people. This “Nanny State idea” based on: class warfare jealousies, freedom from responsibilities for some/impossible responsibilities for the “spoils system” victims of the day – and with (it sometimes seems) the worst possible people in charge … really DOESN’T “look good” to me. :bigyikes:

Or increasingly … even to some of its boosters to date.

latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-democrats-republicans-obamacare-rollout-20131023,0,5719231.story#axzz2jFDs0fMZ < “Democrats disturbed by Obamacare rollout – and GOP criticism” (LA Times 10/23/2013)

washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/25/the-morning-plum-yes-liberals-should-criticize-obamacare-failings/ < “Yes, liberals should criticize Obamacare failings” (Washington Post 10/25/2013)
 
SaintAugustine said:
:bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:
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I don’t know that there could be much of a difference between that and what is in place now.

Every response now from the president to things that are happening is that nobody informed him, or the first that he heard about it was on the news.
He is a figurehead, put out for photo op displays, but otherwise out of the loop. A President Biden likewise would be able to fill that kind of role, albeit in a more farcical manner than has been the tragedy ofa President Obama.
 
Darryl1958 said:
I don’t know that there could be much of a difference between that and what is in place now.

Every response now from the president to things that are happening is that nobody informed him, or the first that he heard about it was on the news.
He is a figurehead, put out for photo op displays, but otherwise out of the loop. A President Biden likewise would be able to fill that kind of role, albeit in a more farcical manner than has been the tragedy ofa President Obama.
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Come to think of it, Obama makes Biden look good…maybe that’s part of Biden’s campaign plan. :hmmm:
 
Darryl1958 said:
I don’t know that there could be much of a difference between that and what is in place now.

Every response now from the president to things that are happening is that nobody informed him, or the first that he heard about it was on the news.
He is a figurehead, put out for photo op displays, but otherwise out of the loop. A President Biden likewise would be able to fill that kind of role, albeit in a more farcical manner than has been the tragedy ofa President Obama.
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Do you really believe that he didn’t know? Or that no one informed him? In either one or both of these instances, then who runs the country? If he is so inept as a leader, why did anyone vote for him a second time (let alone once, but we won’t go there…:rolleyes:)?
 
Peter_Plato said:
Mark,

I always look forward to your insightful comments.

As to… “One of the reasons NOT cited was that these countries had socialized medicine.”

It may well be that socialized medicine does not have the easy avenues of access that a more free market system does. It may be that there simply are not the easy access points available. If, for example, a socialized system is busy enough with its own workload, it simply may not allow access to those not under the plan. That says nothing about quality of care or cost, however. The quality of care may be as good and cost much less, but those from other countries may simply not be allowed in.

That Americans, for example, do not choose countries with socialized medicine (if that is even true) it need not imply these countries practice substandard medicine or have prohibitive costs. I am not sure that was your implication, but in case it was.
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My implication was that they wouldn’t seek out socialized medicine as an alternative because of access (in the first place), wait times, and, frankly, I am not sure that it would be such a good deal for a person who had to pay cash for a visit because the person wasn’t a member of the covered class (like what happens when a tourist needs to see a doctor in a socialized medicine country). Nothing to do with competence of doctors (in fact, the only neurosurgeon I would trust my wife’s spine to got his MD at the University of Calgary and the only cosmetic/reconstructive surgeon I would trust got her MD at McGill…and they both came to the States because they didn’t want to deal with Health Canada…and that is coming out of their mouths, not an assumption on my part).

From having lived in countries with both two-tier (socialized for the masses and privatized for those who can afford it) and pure socialized medicine, as well as how it is here in the states (a tightly government-regulated but mostly privately-owned system), I will tell you that, out of the ones I’ve actually experienced, I think the two-tier system probably works the best…again, out of the ones that I’ve actually experienced. But I really don’t think that such a system could possibly work in the States (too many politicians screaming “unfair” and “racist”, coupled with too many lawyers who would try to wreak havoc on such a system)

In principle, I think that a free-market system that is operated according to the Christian principles of subsidiarity, solidarity, and gratuitousness *would *work the best of any of them…but I haven’t actually personally seen such a system anyplace where I’ve lived, so I can only talk about the principle of the matter. But if a two-tier system could work, as I have seen it work elsewhere, then there is no reason why a free-market system could work…provided that the basic social doctrine principles are lived by at least a plurality of the people within the system.
 
Off DRUDGE REPORT:

*Obama blames ‘bad apple insurers’ for canceled health plans…
‘Just shop around’…
Heckled during speech… *
 
Does anyone know why my comments got deleted in this thread? I read the forum rules.

Someone commented “Maybe he’ll get Impeached” and I replied with praying hands. Am I not allowed to pray that God do his will? Did my prayer really just get censored of is it some sort of glitch? I’d like to know so I don’t bother writing posts that will end up deleted. Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Peace
 
Lormar said:
Do you really believe that he didn’t know? Or that no one informed him? In either one or both of these instances, then who runs the country? If he is so inept as a leader, why did anyone vote for him a second time (let alone once, but we won’t go there…:rolleyes:)?
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It reflects much more poorly on the American electorate than even on Obama that he was voted into office, not just once but twice.

Only a truly ungrateful people would elect anyone who advocates fundamentally changing a country that has reached the pinnacle of unprecedented success and achievement that has been the good fortune of Americans.
Whether he is inept or involved in a conspiracy to destroy private health care in America, to paraphrase H Clinton '“At this point, what does it really matter?!!!”

Or to quote Sebellius “Whatever:shrug:”

The first election might reflect a betrayal of a naive electorate looking for the redemption involved in voting according to identity politics.

The second election however reflects a cynical electorate betraying the very values of America.

The more I follow American politics, the more I am discovering a rather meek people filled with self-loathing, who are too embarrassed and too ashamed of their country to either stand up for it, or even for themselves.

There is nothing that this administration can do, no lie too big, no prying into their private affairs too intrusive, no betrayal of their troops and ambassadors too cowardly and indifferent, that will provoke the majority of Americans to any sense of outrage against such humiliating betrayals of the sacred trust that ought to exist between a government and its people.
 
oneofmany said:
But are you saying in the future if the person has any tax refunds coming to them the IRS can just keep the money? Many people collect tax refunds at the end of the year so we are going to be owned by the IRS. No wonder Obama wanted them to take over running health care.
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You should be able to set up a withdrawal plan with your employer so you aren’t owed money. Why give the government an interest-free loan to begin with, with or without ACA?
 
So whats the deal with investment properties? I read somewhere Im going to be taxed 3% of sale when I sell my investment properties?
 
Darryl1958 said:
The more I follow American politics, the more I am discovering a rather meek people filled with self-loathing, who are too embarrassed and too ashamed of their country to either stand up for it, or even for themselves.

There is nothing that this administration can do, no lie too big, no prying into their private affairs too intrusive, no betrayal of their troops and ambassadors too cowardly and indifferent, that will provoke the majority of Americans to any sense of outrage against such humiliating betrayals of the sacred trust that ought to exist between a government and its people.
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😦

Sadly, you are correct. But be careful, you have leftists at work in your country who also wish to destroy and take over. They must be fought, and not compromised with. They do not have common ground with freedom and free people. They must be defeated, because they will not stop attacking your freedom.
 
zz912 said:
😦

Sadly, you are correct. But be careful, you have leftists at work in your country who also wish to destroy and take over. They must be fought, and not compromised with. They do not have common ground with freedom and free people. They must be defeated, because they will not stop attacking your freedom.
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The left has the tendency to ruin everything it touches. That is a global phenomena.
It would be too harsh to reiiterate the destruction of the American soul that the left has wrought in America. It defies all the stereotypes that people have had about Americans.
The majority of Americans display all the signs of a defeated people resigned to their defeat.
 
Darryl1958 said:
It reflects much more poorly on the American electorate than even on Obama that he was voted into office, not just once but twice.

Only a truly ungrateful people would elect anyone who advocates fundamentally changing a country that has reached the pinnacle of unprecedented success and achievement that has been the good fortune of Americans.
Whether he is inept or involved in a conspiracy to destroy private health care in America, to paraphrase H Clinton '“At this point, what does it really matter?!!!”

Or to quote Sebellius “Whatever:shrug:”

The first election might reflect a betrayal of a naive electorate looking for the redemption involved in voting according to identity politics.

The second election however reflects a cynical electorate betraying the very values of America.

The more I follow American politics, the more I am discovering a rather meek people filled with self-loathing, who are too embarrassed and too ashamed of their country to either stand up for it, or even for themselves.

There is nothing that this administration can do, no lie too big, no prying into their private affairs too intrusive, no betrayal of their troops and ambassadors too cowardly and indifferent, that will provoke the majority of Americans to any sense of outrage against such humiliating betrayals of the sacred trust that ought to exist between a government and its people.
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Well said.I am almost willing to give a pass to those who voted O into office the first time,but TWICE? burn me one shame on you,burn me twice,shame on me.Yep shame on anyone who gave O a second term.:mad:
 
Jeanne_S said:
Well said.I am almost willing to give a pass to those who voted O into office the first time,but TWICE? burn me one shame on you,burn me twice,shame on me.Yep shame on anyone who gave O a second term.:mad:
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Yes, but what kind of reforms would we have had under McCain, who also ran a heatlhcare reform campaign, with a Democratic majority in both House and Senate? Don’t you think somewhere along the line these “cheap” (we called them “fraudulent” in 2003) policies would have been exposed, perhaps even to a greater degree?
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, but what kind of reforms would we have had under McCain, who also ran a heatlhcare reform campaign, with a Democratic majority in both House and Senate? Don’t you think somewhere along the line these “cheap” (we called them “fraudulent” in 2003) policies would have been exposed, perhaps even to a greater degree?
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Since we will never know,(thanks to,one,the Republicans’ ordaining McCain as our candidate,blechhhh,second ,those who bought the whole hopey,changey thing not once,but twice,double ,blechhhh) no point in wondering,too late for Monday morning quarterbacking…
 
Jeanne_S said:
Since we will never know,(thanks to,one,the Republicans’ ordaining McCain as our candidate,blechhhh,second ,those who bought the whole hopey,changey thing not once,but twice,double ,blechhhh) no point in wondering,too late for Monday morning quarterbacking…
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Seems the House doesn’t think it’s too late. What, some 41 repeals already passed?
 
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