Obama Announces New Climate Plan

[SamH]

Not totally bogus. I don’t doubt the credits are accurately stated; producer, director, key grip, musical director, best boy, and so on.

No need for hired actors. I am sure if I had a week to do it in, I could find at least 50 people who absolutely, positively will swear they were abducted by aliens, and they’ll produce their various artifacts and physical results to prove it. I probably wouldn’t even have to pay them to be in my movie. If they were going to be in a movie, they would probably pay me to be in it.

Within two weeks I could find 100 people who will swear their children (or they) were poisoned by childhood vaccinations, and they will know at least five “experts” who will, with charts and graphs demonstrate that it’s so.

Within two days I could find 10 people who would swear that they had been severely poisoned by cows’ milk and their immune systems fatally compromised by it, and were snatched from the brink of death by turning to organic goats’ milk or soy milk or something.

And, of course, the people who can demonstrate, and have artifacts to prove it, that the government is altering the weather with foil strips, balloons that release gases, and, of course, those tell-tale chemical vapor trails in the sky that the government deceptively says are jet trails, are a dime a dozen.

Doesn’t CNN do this every night?

 

[lynnvinc]

I don’t think solar energy is limited to certain regions, necessarily. It can be captured in Arizona, say, and shipped to Maine, in theory at least. Of course the devil is in the details, and distributing the energy may require more energy.

That might not be feasible or practicable, but Maine might have some other even better sources of alt energy – like off-shore floating wind generators. see nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/energy-environment/a-floating-wind-tower-is-launched-in-maine.html

Or tidal power. I’ve read some promising things about the latter, and they are onto it in Maine. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power & mainetidalpower.com/

 

[lynnvinc]

Not totally bogus. I don’t doubt the credits are accurately stated; producer, director, key grip, musical director, best boy, and so on.

No need for hired actors. I am sure if I had a week to do it in, I could find at least 50 people who absolutely, positively will swear they were abducted by aliens, and they’ll produce their various artifacts and physical results to prove it. I probably wouldn’t even have to pay them to be in my movie. If they were going to be in a movie, they would probably pay me to be in it.

Within two weeks I could find 100 people who will swear their children (or they) were poisoned by childhood vaccinations, and they will know at least five “experts” who will, with charts and graphs demonstrate that it’s so.

Within two days I could find 10 people who would swear that they had been severely poisoned by cows’ milk and their immune systems fatally compromised by it, and were snatched from the brink of death by turning to organic goats’ milk or soy milk or something.

And, of course, the people who can demonstrate, and have artifacts to prove it, that the government is altering the weather with foil strips, balloons that release gases, and, of course, those tell-tale chemical vapor trails in the sky that the government deceptively says are jet trails, are a dime a dozen.

Some of the people in the film have very serious health harms, and one had just lost her father to a cancer linked to a fracking fluid that had indeed been in their water.

Do we need to compare people living in tragedy to UFO-believers and conspiracy theorists.

 

[Lapey]

Some of the people in the film have very serious health harms, and one had just lost her father to a cancer linked to a fracking fluid that had indeed been in their water.

Do we need to compare people living in tragedy to UFO-believers and conspiracy theorists.

Please provide the documented proof that his cancer was caused by this chemical, and was entered into the environment by fracking. I guess you are still of the school of thought that electro magnetic waves cause cancer too. Speaking of conspiracy theories.

 

[lynnvinc]

The electric utility industry has produced methods and technologies to burn coal much more efficiently and cleaner than anyone ever imagined. there are new technologies in scrubbers and boilers which have changes the output of impurities tremendously, and still being found. We have to do this, its the right thing to do. Your president and colleagues want to end coal as a fuel, not improve its use but end it.

You mention the TVA; you know why it is an issue? You guessed it, it is government owned and operated.

I really doubt the prez thinks he can end coal mining and use altogether, but only slowly shift us from coal to other more benign energy sources.

Even if somehow really strong policies and rules could be enacted to do this (and I doubt much will be done), it would still take decades and decades for such a massive transition to occur.

By then coal industries having not only become as clean as they can will have been able to diversify their portfolio, and (perhaps with some gov or private help) coal workers and the coal mining areas would be able to transition to other industries and jobs.

RE fossils, they have found that some species of dinosaurs did not become extinct in the changing conditions, but evolved into birds. (Think of that next time you look at a bird .)

Considering we people are not bird-brains we can surely come up with solutions that make this many-decades-long transition from high to much lower coal use successful, without hurting coal companies or workers.

 

[SamH]

Do we need to compare people living in tragedy to UFO-believers and conspiracy theorists.

After learning that the lawsuit that brought Erin Brockovich fame and fortune was based on faulty and fabricated claims one needs to have a certain amount of skepticism when listening to stories that could result in millions being paid.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some of the people in the film have very serious health harms, and one had just lost her father to a cancer linked to a fracking fluid that had indeed been in their water.

Do we need to compare people living in tragedy to UFO-believers and conspiracy theorists.

Did you talk to his oncologist? Did you get a life history of his exposures to all carcinogens of every kind? Unless you did, neither you nor she can say he got cancer from fracking fluid in their water. And unless a hydrologist demonstrated that somehow fracking fluid made its way up through hundreds of feet of impermeable rock into the (rather shallow) water tables, neither you nor she even knows that he was exposed to fracking fluid.

I remember being told of a case by a lawyer representing a man who died from a type of leukemia sometimes linked to benzene. He had been exposed to benzene in his last job; in a cleaning fluid.

However, he had also been exposed every time he filled his gas tank. He had been exposed through smoking. He had been exposed in a previous job as a mechanic. He had been exposed before that in the Navy. He had been exposed by burning wood in his fireplace. He had multiple, multiple exposures to benzene (as do we all) throughout his life.

There were oncologists who swore that his last exposure was the critical one. There were oncologists who said, no, it doesn’t happen that quickly; takes years from the critical exposure. On and on and on.

Environmental cancers are extraordinarily difficult to prove, and I have not seen anything yet that tells me I should believe this woman’s diagnosis.

I remember too, when the entire town of Times Beach Missouri was evacuated by the EPA because some contractor had used oil laced with dioxin on the streets. Every cancer anyone had there was attributed to it. It was cordoned off. You couldn’t go there at all. It lay empty for what now, thirty years? Recently, it was recognized that, um, well, not only are dioxin exposures pervasive in the environment, but the dioxin levels at Times Beach really weren’t anywhere near a potentially hazardous level and, oh, that dioxin is nowhere near as toxic to humans as it is to lab animals. So now it’s a public park.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I really doubt the prez thinks he can end coal mining and use altogether, but only slowly shift us from coal to other more benign energy sources.

Even if somehow really strong policies and rules could be enacted to do this (and I doubt much will be done), it would still take decades and decades for such a massive transition to occur.

By then coal industries having not only become as clean as they can will have been able to diversify their portfolio, and (perhaps with some gov or private help) coal workers and the coal mining areas would be able to transition to other industries and jobs.

RE fossils, they have found that some species of dinosaurs did not become extinct in the changing conditions, but evolved into birds. (Think of that next time you look at a bird .)

Considering we people are not bird-brains we can surely come up with solutions that make this many-decades-long transition from high to much lower coal use successful, without hurting coal companies or workers.

Unless Obama was simply lying (and we can’t be sure he wasn’t on any occasion) he absolutely intends to destroy the coal industry. He said so himself.

As (Democrat) Senator Manchin about that. He is simply outraged about it and about the many thousands of jobs that are going to be lost and have already been lostin WVa, and the poverty that will result. It’s not “some day or other”. It’s ongoing right now. There are NO new coal-fired plants being built because of the EPA.

Of course in China where they don’t have the EPA, they build one every ten days.

 

[lynnvinc]

Please provide the documented proof that his cancer was caused by this chemical, and was entered into the environment by fracking. I guess you are still of the school of thought that electro magnetic waves cause cancer too. Speaking of conspiracy theories.

It’s possible EMFs might cause harm. I haven’t looked into it much, but I remember a group in the Fox Valley of IL that tried to get me involved re a huge line that was going up near their property to send power to Wisconsin. And some grad student in Texas told me to come to the GIS lab & get training, and that studies needed to be done re power lines and cancers, etc… but I didn’t have time. And I have not followed the issue at all.

Re that man who died of cancer, it was in GASLANDS past the middle, and there had been a fracking contaminant in their water that was linked to the cancer he had, and there was heavy fracking operations in their area. I think the company even admitted to contaminating their water. The daughter had saved in her freezer dead animals in and near the stream that was contaminated, thinking some agency would want to study them. If I have time I’ll view that part again and let you know the specific contaminant and the specific type of cancer.

In my own area there is lots of fracking going on. Luckily we have clay-type soil so contaminants do not migrate as fast.

However, just a couple of days ago a student got a notice from her water company about trihalomethanes beyond the legal limit in their water supply. I looked into it and found it might be related to fracking. Chlorine in city water reacts with bromide in the water to form THMs, and fracking fluids often contain bromides. But that’s all I know at this point – no definitive connection.

However, I also looked up other water supplies here in the RGV, and same problem, with most below legal limits, but above health safety limits on THMs – which I found for my city water supply too.

That in addition to finding out a few years ago that radiation (including the more harmful alpha radiation) is in our water, and that it was fraudulently underreported by the Tex Comm on Env Quality for decades. (The radiation being a naturally occurring substance)

I’m thinking of going back to distilling our drinking water, but I’m not sure if that process will get the bad stuff out…maybe only the good minerals

I have to look into things…

 

[qui_est_ce]

I remember too, when the entire town of Times Beach Missouri was evacuated by the EPA because some contractor had used oil laced with dioxin on the streets. Every cancer anyone had there was attributed to it. It was cordoned off. You couldn’t go there at all. It lay empty for what now, thirty years? Recently, it was recognized that, um, well, not only are dioxin exposures pervasive in the environment, but the dioxin levels at Times Beach really weren’t anywhere near a potentially hazardous level and, oh, that dioxin is nowhere near as toxic to humans as it is to lab animals. So now it’s a public park.

Every known birth defect and cancer known to man and animal was attributed to Dioxin.

 

[Lapey]

I really doubt the prez thinks he can end coal mining and use altogether, but only slowly shift us from coal to other more benign energy sources.

Even if somehow really strong policies and rules could be enacted to do this (and I doubt much will be done), it would still take decades and decades for such a massive transition to occur.

By then coal industries having not only become as clean as they can will have been able to diversify their portfolio, and (perhaps with some gov or private help) coal workers and the coal mining areas would be able to transition to other industries and jobs.

RE fossils, they have found that some species of dinosaurs did not become extinct in the changing conditions, but evolved into birds. (Think of that next time you look at a bird .)** I’m not sure I get your attempt at humor; if this in fact what this is. If you are serious, what does this have to do with anything being discussed? **

Considering we people are not bird-brains we can surely come up with solutions that make this many-decades-long transition from high to much lower coal use successful, without hurting coal companies or workers.

He is on record repeatedly stating what he thinks he can do and plans to do to the coal industry. He has been successful in many cases already at shutting down coal mines. Would you like to see some of the pictures of what BO has done to West Virginia? OPEN your eyes! How do you think they will simply “transition” into other industry? How is Detroit doing with its transition to another industry?

You’ve been brain washed.

 

[lynnvinc]

Unless Obama was simply lying (and we can’t be sure he wasn’t on any occasion) he absolutely intends to destroy the coal industry. He said so himself.

As (Democrat) Senator Manchin about that. He is simply outraged about it and about the many thousands of jobs that are going to be lost and have already been lostin WVa, and the poverty that will result. It’s not “some day or other”. It’s ongoing right now. There are NO new coal-fired plants being built because of the EPA.

Of course in China where they don’t have the EPA, they build one every ten days.

I guess I never heard Obama say that, and his plan does not state that. And it seems sort of over-the-top to even believe anyone saying that he said that. First of all, bec we will still be needing coal for many decades to come (esp since oil is running out).

In any case, some of the fracking stuff sounds so bad (and Obama is extremely promoting that), that I even wonder if gas from fracking is actually “cleaner” than coal.

But now my thinking cap is working. Maybe Obama got elected IL senator despite a huge coal lobby & nastiness against him, and he wants to retaliate. So maybe he would like to take down the coal industry out of spite.

But is really isn’t feasible, as I mentioned above. We’ll be needing coal for a long time.

---

China is a very sad sack case. And you are right – while they do have an EPA and standards, it does not have any power to regulate anything…it is all voluntary compliance. Their cost from pollution harms is actually greater than their GDP growth (according to some experts there). They are going backwards fast. Let’s pray for them.

 

[SamH]

I guess I never heard Obama say that, and his plan does not state that. And it seems sort of over-the-top to even believe anyone saying that he said that. First of all, bec we will still be needing coal for many decades to come (esp since oil is running out).

How can you not know that?

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.

That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.

The only thing I’ve said with respect to coal, I haven’t been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a (sic) ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.
It’s just that it will bankrupt them.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/11/02/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry#ixzz2akultTIQ

And his vow to increase energy prices:

hotair.com/archives/2008/11/02/obama-ill-make-energy-prices-skyrocket/

 

[Lapey]

It’s possible EMFs might cause harm. I haven’t looked into it much, but I remember a group in the Fox Valley of IL that tried to get me involved re a huge line that was going up near their property to send power to Wisconsin. And some grad student in Texas told me to come to the GIS lab & get training, and that studies needed to be done re power lines and cancers, etc… but I didn’t have time. And I have not followed the issue at all.

Re that man who died of cancer, it was in GASLANDS past the middle, and there had been a fracking contaminant in their water that was linked to the cancer he had, and there was heavy fracking operations in their area. I think the company even admitted to contaminating their water. The daughter had saved in her freezer dead animals in and near the stream that was contaminated, thinking some agency would want to study them. If I have time I’ll view that part again and let you know the specific contaminant and the specific type of cancer.

In my own area there is lots of fracking going on. Luckily we have clay-type soil so contaminants do not migrate as fast.

However, just a couple of days ago a student got a notice from her water company about trihalomethanes beyond the legal limit in their water supply. I looked into it and found it might be related to fracking. Chlorine in city water reacts with bromide in the water to form THMs, and fracking fluids often contain bromides. But that’s all I know at this point – no definitive connection.

However, I also looked up other water supplies here in the RGV, and same problem, with most below legal limits, but above health safety limits on THMs – which I found for my city water supply too.

That in addition to finding out a few years ago that radiation (including the more harmful alpha radiation) is in our water, and that it was fraudulently underreported by the Tex Comm on Env Quality for decades. (The radiation being a naturally occurring substance)

I’m thinking of going back to distilling our drinking water, but I’m not sure if that process will get the bad stuff out…maybe only the good minerals

I have to look into things…

You do not get the message do you…nothing you or other environmentalist say holds any (pardon the pun) water anymore. Your types have been proven repeatedly to have overstated dangers, tampered with evidence, controlled outcomes of studies, etc. Al Gore himself has been proven many times over to be a complete fraud. You people are causing real hurt and death by scaring people and governments into new regulations or industry killing rules, based on your own conspiracies.

If you believe emf’s caused by transmission lines are dangerous this is further proof you are brainwashed. Do the research, your microwave in your home emits higher levels than people are exposed to by high voltage transmission lines; furthermore, there is no scientific connection that it could or does cause cancer, it is simply speculation and accusations.

This is why I get so frustrated with these conversations, if you disagree with the “smart people” you and seen as a flat earther. You even started our conversation by saying my thoughts were “not of the Catholic way.”

If it were possible to have a meaningful conversation there could be some compromise and some progress without killing industry, which kills jobs, which kills towns and people. If you do not agree with this statement I repeat my experience in WV. Why is our economy moving so slow, why is the upper class gaining more wealth than ever, why is the middle class shrinking, why is the lower class growing? The policies of this administration are the answer.

It’s not too late we can make changes. You have an opportunity to be on the team to make real changes and further real environmental protections, or continue the route we are on which brings the middle class down by killing jobs. Pray about that real choice which you are being called to discern.

 

[Lapey]

I guess I never heard Obama say that, and his plan does not state that. And it seems sort of over-the-top to even believe anyone saying that he said that. First of all, bec we will still be needing coal for many decades to come (esp since oil is running out).

In any case, some of the fracking stuff sounds so bad (and Obama is extremely promoting that), that I even wonder if gas from fracking is actually “cleaner” than coal.

But now my thinking cap is working. Maybe Obama got elected IL senator despite a huge coal lobby & nastiness against him, and he wants to retaliate. So maybe he would like to take down the coal industry out of spite.

But is really isn’t feasible, as I mentioned above. We’ll be needing coal for a long time.

---

China is a very sad sack case. And you are right – while they do have an EPA and standards, it does not have any power to regulate anything…it is all voluntary compliance. Their cost from pollution harms is actually greater than their GDP growth (according to some experts there). They are going backwards fast. Let’s pray for them.

You’re missing a whole world happening before your very eyes. If you want to see it, open them; it’s that simple!

go to YouTube and search for his statements about coal -plants and the industry as a whole. While you are there search for his comments about wanting a single payer tax payer paid for health care system. He is on video record saying this twice that I know of, '03 & '07 I believe. This HC bill that was passed was the outline and structure foundation of his goal, exactly what he told us he wanted.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I guess I never heard Obama say that, and his plan does not state that. And it seems sort of over-the-top to even believe anyone saying that he said that. First of all, bec we will still be needing coal for many decades to come (esp since oil is running out).

But is really isn’t feasible, as I mentioned above. We’ll be needing coal for a long time.

---

.

here are his own people saying they’re going to destroy the industry. thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/top-obama-epa-official-admits-to-plan-to-destroy-the-coal-industry-in-america-video/

 

[Ridgerunner]

I guess I never heard Obama say that, and his plan does not state that. And it seems sort of over-the-top to even believe anyone saying that he said that. First of all, bec we will still be needing coal for many decades to come (esp since oil is running out).

And here’s Obama saying it himself. youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aLcbr63ME

But I will stand corrected. He didn’t say he was going to “destroy” the coal industry. He said he was going to “bankrupt” it.

So, need it or not, he’s not going to permit coal to be an energy source into the future.

 

[Joko2599]

I disagree with the President on many issues. However, I am happy that he is trying to take on climate change.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Re that man who died of cancer, it was in GASLANDS past the middle, and there had been a fracking contaminant in their water that was linked to the cancer he had, and there was heavy fracking operations in their area. I think the company even admitted to contaminating their water. The daughter had saved in her freezer dead animals in and near the stream that was contaminated, thinking some agency would want to study them. If I have time I’ll view that part again and let you know the specific contaminant and the specific type of cancer.

“GASLANDS” is so full of errors and outright falsehoods that even environmental groups have called a lot of them.
anga.us/critical-issues/the-truth-about-gasland/leadership-voices-on-gasland

 

[Ridgerunner]

The false claims in “Gaslands” are so many that there is lots of information on them.

I didn’t (and wouldn’t) watch the propaganda movie. But here is an article about cancer claims in the movie. Even the Susan Komen Foundation acknowledged that the breast cancer claims are false. dailycaller.com/2013/07/22/report-gasland-director-made-false-breast-cancer-claims/

It’s just another lie promoted by the interests that want to make money out of peoples’ misery when they can’t afford heating, cooling or food about to be visited on this nation.