Obama Announces New Climate Plan

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I like some of that, Ridge.

US poverty rate remains stuck at 15 percent
abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/analysts-2012-poverty-rate-show-slight-decline-20276093
In my opinion, the greatest single “cure” for poverty in the U.S. is full employment. No, those who cannot work would not directly benefit from that. But it would improve the tax base and therefore the ability of governments to provide for the poor better.

There would also be some 'demand pull" that would improve the earnings of the “working poor”. It has happened before.

As I see it, the greatest current barriers to full employment are the well-meaning but “experimental” (at best) capricious (at worst) efforts on the part of some politicians to “remake the society”. As little as some people like employers, particularly small employers, they create jobs. As long as they are as insecure as they are now, they’re not likely to be aggressive in the “forward looking” kind of investment in people and equipment that is necessary to stronger employment.

Why are they insecure? Because they can’t “pencil out” anything they might be thinking of doing. Healthcare costs are unfathomable. Interest rates into the future are quite scary. The regulatory environment is unfriendly. Lending is not rational and bank regulators are capricious and confused. Energy policies are ideologically based, not economically based.

Business people are risk-takers by nature, which is why they do “forward looking” things…commitments today that they believe will yield future benefit. But there is a point at which they shy away from it. And that point is the point at which the future is, to them, unacceptably opaque.

And the longer it goes on, the harder it will be to get out of it.
 
Same here, even on the environment. If anyone wants to know my position an anything it can pretty much be found here.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/index.cfm
I understand and I can appreciate your perspective, but none of the documents of Mother Church value actions to safeguard the environment, especially based on theory, before the dignity of every human life. This is the disconnect.

There needs to be balance and for the last bit of history we have not had that balance. The result is evident, we have devastated the very economy that can work for the dignity of every human being and safeguard the environment.

All of the USCCB statements direct a balanced approach, not drastic one sided approach. Until we can move to discuss these issues without the emotional hateful comments like the ones I took offense to earlier, which he has never come back and responded I might add, then we will have no balance in our approach.

Please go back and read the social justice encyclicals, starting with Rerum Nevarum. There is as much warning of government, as there is for “unbridled capitalism”, Marxism, socialism, or communism. The Popes inside of all of these writings give us good guidelines to follow to keep the balance in check.
 
I cannot help but wonder if you see any current environmental threats **at all **that need action.
Let me ask again though I am not surprised at the lack of response.
Yes, many of the same issues you see. However, where we are divided is the solution. You see big government as the solution; I see that as the foot on the neck of human dignity. Why do I see that right now in history? Because there is no balance, only the extreme left is in the game right now; anyone else is tossed out of the conversation. Why were many black politicians not invited to the Martin Luther King celebrations in Washington; because they are conservatives. Don’t believe this? Go do some of that fact checking you are so proud of. The hypocrisy of the left is outrageous!

There are many who do not believe we are heading in the right direction. They, as many of us here are ridiculed and in some cases threatened or even locked out. It is political suicide in recent years to say on camera that you disagree with some of these liberal “sacred cows”.

Thankfully this is changing somewhat. There is some hope for balance, at least we can pray that it is not too late by the time President Obama is done with his fix all plans.
 
I’m not a politician, so it is not my function or occupation to devise precise plans to incorporate into legislation. I could probably go on all day, but here are a few things.

I would most definitely do away with obamacare, because it adds people who have at least some resources to a Medicaid system that can barely take care of those who have none. Additionally, it threatens to impoverish additional numbers through job loss or truncation.

Short of that, one thing I would definitely do is alter the reimbursement balance between “well care” and “chronic care”. I realize the increased reimbursement for “well care” has some theoretical basis for it. If people don’t get sick in the first place, they won’t burden the system later, right? That’s the thought. But it’s really not empirically based, and at least one study recently appears to establish that 'well care" does not affect ultimate outcomes at all. On the other hand, reducing reimbursement for care of patients with chronic conditions is, to me, indefensible. Medical care ought to primarily be for the sick, not for the well. I would actually raise reimbursement for chronic care.

Unlikely as it will ever be to be adopted, I would “reinvent” institutional care for the terribly mentally ill, many of whom now roam the streets or otherwise live in appalling conditions. It’s expensive, particularly if done in a more “modern” way and with adequate staffing. But it’s also more humane. Obviously, this would require the cooperation of lawmakers and the judiciary, who seem to have a greater regard for “personal freedom” of such people than their otherwise applicable condition warrants.

I would provide grants to the kind of “orphanage” in which i once worked. There were a few true “orphans” there, but most were boys whose parents placed them there because they could not provide adequate supervision, nutrition, home situations or education for their children. Parents could visit their children there and the boys could have home visits. It was a Catholic institution, and worked very well. “Graduates” of the home could, and did, continue to live and work there while pursuing higher education, acting as supervisors and mentors to the younger boys. It closed when the State would no longer refer boys there due to the State’s incomprehensible worship of foster care and the bureaucracy’s desire to expand. Again, there would be a lot of opponents to this kind of arrangement. Interestingly, the one in which I worked was entirely supported by donated funds. But starting such institutions up again would probably require public funding.

I would most definitely provide grants for religious orders like this. www.sistersoflife.org. They work in slum neighborhoods to persuade pregnant women to avoid abortion, provide them housing and medical services if needed, and aid them in obtaining training and jobs.
They also provide counseling for post-abortion trauma to those who have had abortions.
The current administration would fight this tooth and nail, but we’re talking “should” here, aren’t we?

I would greatly raise the benefits under SSI; currently just over $600/month. I realize a patchwork of state and federal programs can and often do supplement that benefit in non-cash ways. But that’s a hit and miss proposition and adds to bureaucratic costs. I would also actually add a public or program advocate to SSI and SSD hearings. Nobody represents the public interest in those hearings. I strongly believe considerable money could be saved by those systems if that was done; money that could be provided to those in true need. I would give the public advocates access to investigative personnel and require review periodically that is more than just “paper review” as at present.

As an additional means of raising money, I would make SS retirement, Medicare and SSD “means tested”. There is no justification to paying SS to Warren Buffett while people with nothing have to make do on $600/month. None.

Also to raise money, I would prohibit any greater dipping than “double dipping” into any federal and/or state and/or local governmental pension or disability program or combination, and would provide generous “caps” even for “double dippers”. I have, in my time, met triple and quadruple dippers into the public trough who draw from unfunded programs and are wealthy besides.

I would encourage employment by a number of means. But this is already too long, so I’ll stop here.
I like your idea for orphanages for children rather than foster care, which seems to have done many of them harm. But I would not allow the state to be in charge of any orphanage, only religious institutions.
 
Says nothing in here about Cap and trade, shutting down coal fired plants and increasing taxes on energy?
Did you see anything about:

“strong leadership and commitment by the United States”?

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-on-Climate-Change-to-President-Obama-2013-01-29.pdf

“Effective measures to address climate change are urgent and necessary. Evidence continues to point toward significant damaging impacts from climate related events in the United States, across the globe, and particularly for the poorest developing countries.”

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-to-Bicameral-Task-Force-on-Climate-Change-2013-02-21.pdf

On a more practical side, the Holy See has already taken certain measures to reduce and offset the carbon emission of the Vatican City State, such as the use of solar panels and tree-planting.

My delegation, therefore, commends the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) for providing a global framework for concerted international action to mitigate climate change and to adapt to its impacts.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2008/documents/rc_seg-st_20080212_climate-change_en.html

In this regard, mitigation and adaptation efforts, in an ethical context, point toward a potential for new and sound sustainable development policies to be carried out in solidarity with our brothers and sisters throughout the world.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/documents/rc_seg-st_20031210_climate-change_en.html
 
2007

Arctic summers ice-free ‘by 2013’
By Jonathan Amos
Science reporter, BBC News, San Francisco
Scientists in the US have presented one of the most dramatic forecasts yet for the disappearance of Arctic sea ice.
Their latest modelling studies indicate northern polar waters could be ice-free in summers within just 5-6 years.
Professor Wieslaw Maslowski told an American Geophysical Union meeting that previous projections had underestimated the processes now driving ice loss.
Summer melting this year reduced the ice cover to 4.13 million sq km, the smallest ever extent in modern times.
Remarkably, this stunning low point was not even incorporated into the model runs of Professor Maslowski and his team, which used data sets from 1979 to 2004 to constrain their future projections.

“Our projection of 2013 for the removal of ice in summer is not accounting for the last two minima, in 2005 and 2007,” the researcher from the Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, California, explained to the BBC.
“So given that fact, you can argue that may be our projection of 2013 is already too conservative.”
 
Dialing Back the Alarm on Climate Change
A forthcoming report points lowers estimates on global warming
By MATT RIDLEY
Later this month, a long-awaited event that last happened in 2007 will recur. Like a returning comet, it will be taken to portend ominous happenings. I refer to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) “fifth assessment report,” part of which will be published on Sept. 27.
There have already been leaks from this 31-page document, which summarizes 1,914 pages of scientific discussion, but thanks to a senior climate scientist, I have had a glimpse of the key prediction at the heart of the document. The big news is that, for the first time since these reports started coming out in 1990, the new one dials back the alarm. It states that the temperature rise we can expect as a result of man-made emissions of carbon dioxide is lower than the IPCC thought in 2007.
Admittedly, the change is small, and because of changing definitions, it is not easy to compare the two reports, but retreat it is. It is significant because it points to the very real possibility that, over the next several generations, the overall effect of climate change will be positive for humankind and the planet.
 
Does this mean that I can now go swimming at the North Pole in the winter, or is it only in the summer? Ummmmm, does anybody know what became of Santa Claus and his elves and all of that, now that the whole North Pole is now just water?

I apologize. I just couldn’t resist.

In your second post, I see that the IPCC is dialing back on its predictions. Failure of one’s predictions to pan out is surely a frustrating thing. Wonder how much money they will spend on predicting global warming this time.b:rolleyes:
 
Did you see anything about:

“strong leadership and commitment by the United States”?

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-on-Climate-Change-to-President-Obama-2013-01-29.pdf

“Effective measures to address climate change are urgent and necessary. Evidence continues to point toward significant damaging impacts from climate related events in the United States, across the globe, and particularly for the poorest developing countries.”

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-to-Bicameral-Task-Force-on-Climate-Change-2013-02-21.pdf

On a more practical side, the Holy See has already taken certain measures to reduce and offset the carbon emission of the Vatican City State, such as the use of solar panels and tree-planting.

My delegation, therefore, commends the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) for providing a global framework for concerted international action to mitigate climate change and to adapt to its impacts.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2008/documents/rc_seg-st_20080212_climate-change_en.html

In this regard, mitigation and adaptation efforts, in an ethical context, point toward a potential for new and sound sustainable development policies to be carried out in solidarity with our brothers and sisters throughout the world.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/documents/rc_seg-st_20031210_climate-change_en.html
The Vatican sources are both pretty old, especially the 2003 one. Lots of contrary information since then, including no warming, no open arctic, etc. But then, the Vatican doesn’t really “diagnose” global warming itself. It just expresses concern, as did a lot of people before the MMGW argument started to fall apart.

The “USCCB statement” is totally predictable. I see it was written by Bp. Blaire, who seems to write all of the Obamacentric utterances he attributes to other bishops as well as himself, without any resolution by the rest of them. Let’s see, he wrote expressing horror that the Ryan plan decreased food stamp funding when in reality Ryan proposed to increase it by 8% instead of the 12% Obama wanted. (I honestly don’t think he read the Ryan plan before condemning it. I really don’t.) He backed Obama’s gun control proposals before Obama even made them.

I won’t say he’s a loose cannon, but my own bishop, who writes a column in our diocesan paper every week, never backs Bp. Blaire’s utterances. Never.
 
Did you see anything about:

“strong leadership and commitment by the United States”?

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-on-Climate-Change-to-President-Obama-2013-01-29.pdf

“Effective measures to address climate change are urgent and necessary. Evidence continues to point toward significant damaging impacts from climate related events in the United States, across the globe, and particularly for the poorest developing countries.”

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/environment/upload/Letter-to-Bicameral-Task-Force-on-Climate-Change-2013-02-21.pdf

On a more practical side, the Holy See has already taken certain measures to reduce and offset the carbon emission of the Vatican City State, such as the use of solar panels and tree-planting.

My delegation, therefore, commends the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) for providing a global framework for concerted international action to mitigate climate change and to adapt to its impacts.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2008/documents/rc_seg-st_20080212_climate-change_en.html

In this regard, mitigation and adaptation efforts, in an ethical context, point toward a potential for new and sound sustainable development policies to be carried out in solidarity with our brothers and sisters throughout the world.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/documents/rc_seg-st_20031210_climate-change_en.html
Didnt see anything about cap and trade,shutting down coal fired plants orcraising the cost of energy.
 
Hey! We’ll have none of this!!! Friendship??? Please get back to arguing or the whippings will commence. J/K :rolleyes:
 
I don’t think anyone would question that it did. But neither does that mean all regulation is good just because it’s regulation. Nor does it mean nobody would ever do environmentally sound things just because they aren’t forced to do it. Manifestly, people do many environmentally beneficial things on their own.
Very good response. I’ll have to remember that.
 
Oh, there ya go…trying to be nice and make a joke!!! How dare you!!! How can I argue with you when you are nice?
I’m always nice…challenging maybe…frustrating maybe…stubburn and heels dug in maybe…
but always nice:angel1:
 
You guys are dreamers. Certainly you cannot be talking about industries.
People may do things on their own but industires? I don’t think so.
You were on a roll, why did you have to go and ruin it. I represent management of one of the industries you hate. You are closed minded and wrong. You would be quite surprised on the level of leadership in environmental issues the electric utility industry gives society.

Who do you think develops new technologies? Government? Scientists? That’s laughable.

The simple statement you made here shows your ignorance of industry and once again illustrates the agenda, to harm or end industry.
 
You guys are dreamers. Certainly you cannot be talking about industries.
People may do things on their own but industires? I don’t think so.
I’ll admit that my experience of environmental care is much more in the agricultural area. Typically, people who own the land are proud of it and want to take care of it for future generations. They often do things that neither the environmentalists nor the regulators even know to do. Do regulators force farmers and ranchers to, for instance, plant grain strips or establish cover refuges for wildlife? No, but vast numbers of farmers and ranchers do that. What regulation obliges farmers or ranchers to plant pecan trees so wild turkeys can eat the pecans? There isn’t one, yet I know people who do that.

What regulation forces ranchers to no-till legumes into the soil to enrich it? None. Yet ranchers do it.

Industries typically do what they do or don’t do based on economic concerns. But that’s not always their motivation, or sole motivation. I know plenty of industries that keep their process and yards meticulous because it presents a better appearance, when there’s no particular economic reason to do it. I do know an aluminum smelter who put sophisticated particulate catchers on his stacks just because it looked better, notwithstanding that no regulator required him to do it. Of course, it probably improved his community relations, but direct economic benefit would be hard to find in that. Well, I’ll admit, he can sell the aluminum oxide particulates to industries that produce abrasives and (guess what?) toothpaste.

One thing one notices about modern industries is how so many of them find ways of using every waste product instead of discarding it into the environment or disposing of it in some other way. State of the art food processing facilities and ethanol plants are like that.

That’s economically based, to be sure; profit motivated. Still, one does have to recognize that sometimes economic motivations prompt measures that are ahead of regulatory requirements. In some industries, I think regulators are followers, not leaders.
 
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