Obama backs mosque near ground zero

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pnewton said:
How many times must this strawman keep getting trotted out. No one has said they should be refused their legal right to build this monument to terrorism. What has been said is that it should not be supported, especially by the president. Rather this action should be condemned in the strongest possible way. Those that are pushing it should be shown in the court of public opinion for the hypocritical, insensitive terrorist supporters they are. Even if he is the President.
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/sigh

I was responding to your claim that Muslims were hypocrites- to back that up, you brought up that Christians buildings may not be built at Muslim holy sites. As such, it was within reason to point out that what goes on in their home countries is beyond their control- Nobody in the Cordoba Institute can make Saudi Arabia or Iran allow religious freedom. So, they should not be held accountable for those policies- either by having their rights denied or by being deemed hypocrites.
 
tjm190 said:
‘Mahmoud al-Zahar said Muslims “have to build everywhere” so that followers can pray, just like Christians and Jews build their places of worship.’

Do you disagree?
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When the House of Saud allows the Vatican to build a cathedral and staff it and preach freely and distribute Catholic literature, then I might go along with your post.
 
livnlern said:
I’ll be curious to see what happens to Bloomberg when he’s up for re-election…Bye,bye.
Common sense will tell you why they want to build on that particular site. But common sense can be pretty rare these days.
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Common sense is not in the vocabulary of radicals. Guess they just think differently. Guess that’s why they think conservatives are stupid idiots and they are superior in intelligence.:rolleyes:
 
TedDC said:
I have to agree with you, reluctantly. I can’t see any valid legal justification for the government to prohibit the construction. But it’s also very clear to me, from the promoters’ stubborn insistence on building the facility despite widespread public objections, that one of their objects is indeed, at some level, to poke a stick in the eye of America and to celebrate the Islamic “triumph” of 9/11.
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I have to agree with you, reluctantly. I can’t see any valid legal justification for the government to prohibit blacks sitting in the front of a bus. But it’s also very clear to me, from the promoters’ stubborn insistence on sitting in the front despite widespread public objections, that one of their objects is indeed, at some level, to poke a stick in the eye of America and to celebrate black “equality” with whites.

If your argument against the Mosque was valid, then why isn’t the above argument also valid?
 
pnewton said:
Prior to the Barak Hussein Obama’s inaguaration, this was true. Today, the current president only kowtows to Muslim sensitivities. The feelings of others, like the family of the thousands who were killed by Muslims and the country that watched in shock the day of that vicious attack, those are not relevant to the current Commander in Chief. Yes, Muslims have the right to build on private property and worship as they please. However, the President has a right to voice his objection to such an incredibly stupid and insensitive exercise of rights. Instead, he supported them in their obamination, showing where his true loyalties lay.
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I prefer a president that sides with America’s ideals instead of choosing the politically expedient path.
 
iamrefreshed said:
I’m not over it.

I still get depressed in the days leading up to the anniversary.
I still get the nightmares.
I can still close my eyes and see the second plane striking the tower.
I still seeing the jumpers fleeing fire for certain death.
I still hear a co-worker screaming, “Oh my God it’s falling” when the first tower fell.
I still remember people shoving into elevators.
I still can hear the F-16’s screaming at rooftop level.
I still remember being trapped for the day not knowing if more was coming.
I can still remember the train ride home with dust covered people.
I still see my wife and childrens tear streaked faces when I finally made it home.

Please, tell me how to “get over it”?

And if you can’t, maybe your mosque builder can?

Edited to add:

And I’m lucky, I came home.
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You have substituted the fear of the attacks for your misgivings about Muslims. While such a traumatic event is likely very difficult, I would certainly hope you are reasonable enough to admit that those involved with the Islamic centre are in no way tied to your trauma. You can forgive Muslims before you stop having nightmares.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
You have substituted the fear of the attacks for your misgivings about Muslims. While such a traumatic event is likely very difficult, I would certainly hope you are reasonable enough to admit that those involved with the Islamic centre are in no way tied to your trauma. You can forgive Muslims before you stop having nightmares.
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Wow! One post and you’ve clinically diagnosed me!

Thanks Doc!:rolleyes:

I have no way of knowing if those proposing the Islamic centre are tied to Islamic fundamentalists.

I do however know that they are insensitive and don’t care as long as they achieve their end goals.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
You have substituted the fear of the attacks for your misgivings about Muslims. While such a traumatic event is likely very difficult, I would certainly hope you are reasonable enough to admit that those involved with the Islamic centre are in no way tied to your trauma. You can forgive Muslims before you stop having nightmares.
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Truly one of the more condescending, insensitve posts I have ever seen in CAF. At least it is now obvious to all why you have no problem with the mosque.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
I have to agree with you, reluctantly. I can’t see any valid legal justification for the government to prohibit blacks sitting in the front of a bus. But it’s also very clear to me, from the promoters’ stubborn insistence on sitting in the front despite widespread public objections, that one of their objects is indeed, at some level, to poke a stick in the eye of America and to celebrate black “equality” with whites.

If your argument against the Mosque was valid, then why isn’t the above argument also valid?
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The two situations are not comparable because one celebrates something good and just - racial equality - while the other, many of us believe, celebrates murder.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Why does the left talk about religious tolerance?

They despise the Christian right.
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Yes. The left has milked Christian tolerance, charity and love for all it can, and now they find the remaining Christian sensibilities to be a bit obstructionist (abortion, defense of marriage, stem cell research). That’s one reason why they embrace the Muslims (for now): They find Islamists useful to distract and tick-off the Christians, knowing that the Muslims are not yet present in large-enough numbers to cause a problem for their secular way of life. They don’t care about the long range consequences, because frankly it appears the left has never cared about long range consequences. Surely they must see that Muslims demand a severe and strict moral code that makes modern-day Christianity look totally permissive. And while they seem to despise the Judaeo-Christian tradition, it appears they would prefer stoning by the command of the prophet Mohammed. Perhaps the left’s sensibilities ARE in order, after all.
 
"Mosques and the Islamization of America

Disguised as religion, Islam has penetrated democracies with the aim of replacing civility and liberty with the barbarism of 7th century Islamic theocracy and Sharia law. Islam’s multi-pronged attack aims to destroy all that liberty offers.

America, with a long tradition of protecting religious freedom, still clings to the “hands off” practice of leaving alone any doctrine or practice billed as religion. A thorny problem is in deciding what constitutes a religion and who is to make that call. We must keep in mind that to be a loyal and faithful Muslim, a Muslim must adhere to and perform many obligatory acts, as specified in the Quran by Allah and the Hadith/Sunna, during his entire life."…

Entire entry: rightsidenews.com/2010081311336/us/islam-in-america/mosques-and-the-islamization-of-america.html
 
SwizzleStick said:
"Mosques and the Islamization of America

Disguised as religion, Islam has penetrated democracies with the aim of replacing civility and liberty with the barbarism of 7th century Islamic theocracy and Sharia law. Islam’s multi-pronged attack aims to destroy all that liberty offers.

America, with a long tradition of protecting religious freedom, still clings to the “hands off” practice of leaving alone any doctrine or practice billed as religion. A thorny problem is in deciding what constitutes a religion and who is to make that call.

Entire entry: rightsidenews.com/2010081311336/us/islam-in-america/mosques-and-the-islamization-of-america.html
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Exactly. Thank you.

We would never permit a cult to exist here that would allow things such as “honor killings”. We would never try to make a distinction between the beliefs of the cult and the “extremist behaviors” of some of the members. So why do we allow this?
 
TedDC said:
The two situations are not comparable because one celebrates something good and just - racial equality - while the other, many of us believe, celebrates murder.
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So… logic is only valid when you agree with the conclusions.
 
iamrefreshed said:
Wow! One post and you’ve clinically diagnosed me!

Thanks Doc!:rolleyes:

I have no way of knowing if those proposing the Islamic centre are tied to Islamic fundamentalists.

I do however know that they are insensitive and don’t care as long as they achieve their end goals.
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Why are they insensitive? Because they are Muslim, and Muslims attacked us on 9/11? But you have just stated that you don’t care if the construction Muslims are completely separate from the destruction Muslims.

What that amounts to is “I don’t care if I am right or reasonable, I just don’t want Muslims to build a Mosque.” As I’m sure you are aware, unreasonable opposition to a religious group is defined to be prejudice.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
Why are they insensitive? Because they are Muslim, and Muslims attacked us on 9/11? But you have just stated that you don’t care if the construction Muslims are completely separate from the destruction Muslims.

What that amounts to is “I don’t care if I am right or reasonable, I just don’t want Muslims to build a Mosque.” As I’m sure you are aware, unreasonable opposition to a religious group is defined to be prejudice.
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And now we have comes full circle back to “people who disagree with me are bigots”

I believe most people in this thread ,on either side of the issue, think you should apologize and move on.
 
estesbob said:
And now we have comes full circle back to “people who disagree with me are bigots”

I believe most people in this thread ,on either side of the issue, think you should apologize and move on.
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If you are not comfortable with people critiquing your opinions, keep them to yourself.
 
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