Obama has won

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Schmoo said:
I suspect alot of Catholic hospitals will close… rather than risk eternal damnation for killing babies.
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No, I think some of them will be sold, and some of them that are already being run by lay boards will divorce themselves from the Church and become secular. Sort of like that hospital in Arizona did a while back. This is already happening, but it’s going to speed up. In fact, it’s probably going to go into hyperdrive. So even if you still see the name of the hospital and it says St. So-and-So, it won’t be Catholic.

The other stuff, the diocesan outreach stuff and the religious order stuff, that’s probably going to close or be scaled way back.
 
Persuader said:
What are you even talking about? The US is a center-right country. Obama is a center-right politician. You tell me what policies are extreme left.

Reading this thread and speaking with right-wingers in general, exposes the issue. The religious right misconstrues reality. Sure, there is some progressive movement in the electorate, and Obama is pandering to this. But even so, it’s not like he managed proper health-care reform (with a public option or single-payer). And if he did, he still wouldn’t be an extreme leftist. How could it be extreme to do what every other western country has done long ago? Nothing Obama has done is extremely left-wing. Not even close.

If you want to change moral views on abortion, I think you would have to engage with the academic world. The electorate, and young voters especially (that have recently went to college or are still in college), know the arguments and they largely reject the pro-life position (especially the one informed by religious right reasoning). The professors at the colleges reject your position, and in case you didn’t know, they’re the one’s teaching your kids and they consider you ignoramuses. That’s the reality.

As far as I can see, the religious right has written off science and learning. Opposition to evolution, stem cell research and climate change - no interest in listening to new ideas coming out of science and academia. This won’t work.
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Okay, you make good points but I could never vote for someone like Obama who believes live babies should be left to die, that’s infanticide.

That trumps all your talk about science and all that. Even more flawed thinking are those such as his.

Yes, he is an extreme leftist, we could have many jobs but we have high unemployment because he is out to destroy the energy sector.

We’ve printed up money and the stock market can crash, Obama is just a crony socialist and helps the Unions.
 
Observer3 said:
Abyssinia, a fact is not a few doctor’s opinions… that is not conclusive.
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In other words, Abyssinia, don’t tell me when life begins. That is up to my own conscience to decide.

I’m sorry, Observer, but I don’t believe that it matters to you when life begins. You want complete control over your body and no science or religion will dissuade you of your position. You picked the perfect candidate to vote for.

Peace

Tim
 
qui_est_ce said:
Romney freely chooses a religion that requires 10% tithing, so that doesn’t count. The fact that he donates more than 10% doesn’t figure in. The fact that he and his family donate at least 10% of their tine to charitable works doesn’t figure in because that would hurt the story line that GOPers are nothing but rich white men who want to bilk the poor to stuff their coffers.

The federal government, which we voted in, takes money from tax payers and sets up federally funded programs, that’s compassion for the poor.

The same government that wants to impose a tax on religious institutions that help the poor and the sick, because they are not religious enough. Yet unions, such as the government workers’ SEIU union are exempted. Auto workers, exempted.
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Catholics are supposed to tithe too, but do they?
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Tomato and tomahto.

Some racist Southerners, include Nathan Bedford Forrest, started the KKK. They were all white men. Okay to say that “white men” started the KKK?

1, It’s “hanged,” not “hung.” Racist Southerners, some of whom were Republicans, some of whom were Democrats,hanged black men. Equal opportunity lynch mobs.

Learn some history, please, and you won’t dump, either…
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Well, if talking about “women’s rights”, you just mean abortion, okay. I will stand by my Catholic faith in a Catholic forum and elsewhere.
 
_Abyssinia said:
April 1981 Congress did hearings on answering when does life begins. 57 witnesses, internationally known scientists have testimony. 1 scientist disagreed philosophically, but all the other scientists tesified that life began at conception.
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The abortion debate is not about when life starts. Here are some relevant questions, taken from the wiki-entry:

“Ethical question regarding abortion usually include:
Are embryos, zygotes and fetuses “persons” worthy of legal protections?
Should the potential to be a person give embryos, zygotes and fetuses a right to life?
Does a fetus gain rights as it gets closer to birth?
Does a woman have an absolute right to determine what happens in and to her body?
Is abortion acceptable in cases of rape, incest, or contraception failure?
Is abortion acceptable in cases where the fetus is deformed?
Is abortion acceptable in cases where if the pregnancy were to continue, it would pose a direct threat to the life of the mother?”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate#Ethical_debate
 
jediliz said:
were you being sarcastic, tim? They said legalizing abortion would make CHILD ABUSE go away! ** It has skyrocketed.**
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Yes, it has.

Birth control doesn’t prevent abortion either. It makes it worse.

There’s a very simple reason for this: Both of them encourage people to think of each other as commodities, things to be gotten or gotten rid of, things to be manipulated to get what you want. It’s very simple.
 
qui_est_ce said:
Romney freely chooses a religion that requires 10% tithing, so that doesn’t count. The fact that he donates more than 10% doesn’t figure in. The fact that he and his family donate at least 10% of their tine to charitable works doesn’t figure in because that would hurt the story line that GOPers are nothing but rich white men who want to bilk the poor to stuff their coffers.

The federal government, which we voted in, takes money from tax payers and sets up federally funded programs, that’s compassion for the poor.

The same government that wants to impose a tax on religious institutions that help the poor and the sick, because they are not religious enough. Yet unions, such as the government workers’ SEIU union are exempted. Auto workers, exempted.
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Union carve-outs by the Democrats are nauseatingly unfair to the rest of the American public, whether it’s ObamaCare or the GM bailout stock award to the UAW.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Union carve-outs by the Democrats are nauseatingly unfair to the rest of the American public, whether it’s ObamaCare or the GM bailout stock award to the UAW.
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Yes, well union goods are hard to sell in the US because they’re expensive and the quality is often very low. You have to support them with government money to even get them on the market.

Globalism and open markets takes care of that. And if they close markets, we’ll have a replay of the depression and a trade war on our hands.
 
iloveangels said:
No, I think some of them will be sold, and some of them that are already being run by lay boards will divorce themselves from the Church and become secular. Sort of like that hospital in Arizona did a while back. This is already happening, but it’s going to speed up. In fact, it’s probably going to go into hyperdrive. So even if you still see the name of the hospital and it says St. So-and-So, it won’t be Catholic.

The other stuff, the diocesan outreach stuff and the religious order stuff, that’s probably going to close or be scaled way back.
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like the Hospital where Jill Stanek worked In Chicago that was doing LIVE BIRTH INDUCED ABORTIONS and is/was called CHRIST HOSPITAL (but AFAIK did not have any affiliation with any church…or if it did, not sure what church)
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Tomato and tomahto. Some racist Southerners, include Nathan Bedford Forrest, started the KKK. They were all white men. Okay to say that “white men” started the KKK? 1, It’s “hanged,” not “hung.” Racist Southerners, some of whom were Republicans, some of whom were Democrats,hanged black men. Equal opportunity lynch mobs. Learn some history, please, and you won’t dump, either…
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Wall Street Journal:
■There is no reference to the formation of the Ku Klux Klan, which, according to Columbia University historian Eric Foner, became “a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party.” Nor is there reference to University of North Carolina historian Allen Trelease’s description of the Klan as the "terrorist arm of the Democratic Party."
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online.wsj.com/article/SB121856786326834083.html I learned the history, I don’t make things up.

Now, one can visit Reverend Childress’ website, black genocide, a black baby is 5 times more likely to be aborted than a white baby, the abortion industry kills more blacks in 3 days than were ever lynched in America. Planned Parenthood is a sacred cow for Democrats and the Democrats as in the days of the Klan, still attack the Catholic Church.

You can say times have changed but this is nothing less than history.
 
Persuader said:
The abortion debate is not about when life starts. Here are some relevant questions, taken from the wiki-entry:

“Ethical question regarding abortion usually include:
Are embryos, zygotes and fetuses “persons” worthy of legal protections?
Should the potential to be a person give embryos, zygotes and fetuses a right to life?
Does a fetus gain rights as it gets closer to birth?
Does a woman have an absolute right to determine what happens in and to her body?
Is abortion acceptable in cases of rape, incest, or contraception failure?
Is abortion acceptable in cases where the fetus is deformed?
Is abortion acceptable in cases where if the pregnancy were to continue, it would pose a direct threat to the life of the mother?”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate#Ethical_debate
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Those questions simply ask is it ethically acceptable to kill a baby at times? Dressing it up changes nothing.
 
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