Obama marks Roe vs. Wade anniversary

[hazmat]

steve: “I’ll even grant you the notion that most women have no clue that they are terminating an actual human…” theres no need to grant me that; i never suggested it. the fetus dies if removed from the womb too early, so in terminating ones pregnancy, its death is inevitable.

jilly: if its viable, and killing the fetus isnt necessary to terminate pregnancy, then the motive would just be to kill. viable fetuses aside, if it will certainly die after extraction, it serves no good purpose to ensure it dies later rather than sooner.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

View attachment 12837

Ya, I should have figured that out a few posts ago.

 

[SteveGC]

steve: “I’ll even grant you the notion that most women have no clue that they are terminating an actual human…” theres no need to grant me that; i never suggested it. the fetus dies if removed from the womb too early, so in terminating ones pregnancy, its death is inevitable.

jilly: if its viable, and killing the fetus isnt necessary to terminate pregnancy, then the motive would just be to kill. viable fetuses aside, if it will certainly die after extraction, it serves no good purpose to ensure it dies later rather than sooner.

It’s like pulling teeth

I’ll try again…

I’m talking about YOUR position that she should be free to terminate a person within her. You’ve indicated that a person can be terminated so long as they are still living inside the womb. I want to unpack that position of yours. So again, why is it permissible to terminate a human life while it is in the womb?

 

[ishii]

Agreed . I have, in this thread ,seen some of the more bizzare rationalization for killing unborn that i have seen in my 30 plus years of deabting abortion on the internet.

Everyone should keep in mind that the primary tactics of those trying to defend the indefensible is to either change the subject or detrail the thread into endless semantics arguments. both are being employed here. the thread has long since been diverted from discussing the actions of the most pro-abortion president in history to silly anologies about aborting 30 year old people who have occupied a womans womb.

I find their arguments revolting - as I do this troll’s.

Ishii

 

[anp1215]

I attended my first March for Life yesterday as a 54 year old “sinful and sorrowful” former pro choice feminist who gradually has become pro life due to my work as a nurse with those with catastrophic injury including children with special needs and individuals with brain injury. I am now in RCIA and on my way home to the Church and I was awe inspired by the march and more than anything just so sorry for my past beliefs and my own luke warm faith in a Methodist church all of these years, and by the way where were they yesterday, so sad to see so little mainline Protestant presence. It was truly a life changing experience, I heard preached for decades about faith in action and yesterday I felt like I was doing something about it. And so after this incredible day I texted my husband at home and asked about the news coverage and as of 4 PM this is the only story he saw- unbelievable!!! I am just praying for our country to wake up and for God to revive us quickly- a little afraid of what He may bring if this goes 40 years by next January. And yes we do need to vote our consciences- there is no social justice unless there is justice for all.

God Bless,

Val

God bless you.

 

[hazmat]

It’s like pulling teeth

I’ll try again…

I’m talking about YOUR position that she should be free to terminate a person within her. You’ve indicated that a person can be terminated so long as they are still living inside the womb. I want to unpack that position of yours. So again, why is it permissible to terminate a human life while it is in the womb?

i gave my opinion that you should be able to remove anything from your body at any time. its my view that you should have control of what goes on in your body, even it it kills. my position on abortion may be more cavalier than what youre used to; that may be why you failed to pick up on that.

 

[ishii]

It’s like pulling teeth

I’ll try again…

I’m talking about YOUR position that she should be free to terminate a person within her. You’ve indicated that a person can be terminated so long as they are still living inside the womb. I want to unpack that position of yours. So again, why is it permissible to terminate a human life while it is in the womb?

Good luck getting a straight answer, SteveGC. I wouldn’t waste my time feeding the troll.

Ishii

 

[hazmat]

ishii: in your last few posts, i dont think you made it clear that you think im a troll. would you do everyone the favor of clarifying on that, please. thank you. lol

 

[Wolseley]

OK, look. I’m not talking about bloodlust. I’m not talking about a desire to kill. I’m not even talking about a hypothetical woman’s knowledge (or lack thereof) of the reality of personhood within their womb, as opposed to a bunch of cells and tissue. In this dialogue, I don’t care about the woman’s awareness at all. Heck, I’ll even grant you the notion that most women have no clue that they are terminating an actual human being when they have an abortion. (not true, but for the sake of this discussion, it’s immaterial). I’m talking about YOUR position that she should be free to terminate a person within her. You’ve indicated that a person can be terminated so long as they are still living inside the womb. I want to unpack that position of yours. So again, why is it permissible to terminate a human life while it is in the womb?

Don’t waste your time, Steve. I’ve debated these types before. It’s not that they won’t give you a straight answer, it’s that they literally, honestly, truly can’t give you a straight answer…their brains are so totally warped by the pro-death bilge they’ve been spoonfed by the culture all their lives that they actually believe all that stuff they spew in these forums----all the twisted reasoning, the tortured rationalizations, the dissembling, the endless arguments over semantic interpretations, the unbelievable justifications-----they really believe all that stuff. They’re not just being malicious trolls; they actually believe it. They think they’re right, and you’re wrong.

Trying to shine a little light into the labyrinthine recesses of a mind that dark and mazelike is a hopeless task—all you can do is shake your head and walk away.

“Hazardous material”, indeed.

 

[jilly4ski]

i gave my opinion that you should be able to remove anything from your body at any time. its my view that you should have control of what goes on in your body, even it it kills. my position on abortion may be more cavalier than what youre used to; that may be why you failed to pick up on that.

That is your opinion, but that is not what the law says, or right order demands, or in accordance with natural law.

And like I said, you are ignorant of actual abortion procedures (the majority happen by killing the child first and then removing him/her from the womb). And your ignorance has messed with the logic of your answer. It is not based in reality or practicality.

 

[SteveGC]

i gave my opinion that you should be able to remove anything from your body at any time. its my view that you should have control of what goes on in your body, even it it kills. my position on abortion may be more cavalier than what youre used to; that may be why you failed to pick up on that.

I picked up on the cavalierness when you first entered the room, and I’ve seen it a number of times in the past (from others). So I’m quite used to it. What I’m not used to is such astonishing acrobatics in dodging questions.

The bolded part of your quote is where we are, hazmat. “Even if it kills”. Stay with me here, please. Why, in your opinion, should a woman be allowed to KILL a child simply because it is physically residing inside her body? Don’t talk “removal with coincidental death”. Talk “KILL a human being”, or “terminating the life”, at the very least. You know, as I know, that that is what is occurring with the “removal” in the manner we are speaking. A woman may certainly not be bloodlusting in her “removal”, but we both know that her hypothetical “right” to remove something from her body, in this case, DIRECTLY involves the termination of a human life, the killing of a human child. (and you know that she knows it, too). I want to know why that clear fact can be overlooked by you for the sake of “allowing a woman to remove anything she wants from her body”. What is it about the termination (killing) of a human life that does not phase you in your position?

A sincere thanks for the warnings from others. Yet, I’m pressing the light further. Stay tuned.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Don’t waste your time, Steve. I’ve debated these types before. It’s not that they won’t give you a straight answer, it’s that they literally, honestly, truly can’t give you a straight answer…their brains are so totally warped by the pro-death bilge they’ve been spoonfed by the culture all their lives that they actually believe all that stuff they spew in these forums----all the twisted reasoning, the tortured rationalizations, the dissembling, the endless arguments over semantic interpretations, the unbelievable justifications-----they really believe all that stuff. They’re not just being malicious trolls; they actually believe it. They think they’re right, and you’re wrong.

Trying to shine a little light into the labyrinthine recesses of a mind that dark and mazelike is a hopeless task—all you can do is shake your head and walk away.

“Hazardous material”, indeed.

I don’t think it’s a waste of time at all, up to a point. Hopefully Hazmat will think about what he has seen here and see the logical consequences of his thought process.

Then there are the lurkers who benefit as well. We have seen some conversions on this very board!

 

[_Abyssinia]

Obama Wrong to Celebrate Abortion as Roe vs. Wade Turns 39:

lifenews.com/2012/01/26/obama-wrong-to-celebrate-abortion-as-roe-vs-wade-turns-39/

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I don’t think it’s a waste of time at all, up to a point. Hopefully Hazmat will think about what he has seen here and see the logical consequences of his thought process.

Then there are the lurkers who benefit as well. We have seen some conversions on this very board!

Agree with you. Folks on both sides of the issue have their set opinions and I’d rather ascribe the pro-life and pro-choice positions as being genuinely held by the various posters and not see them as being believed only to stick it to the other side. We don’t know, but that one post here might lead to a conversion by a pro-choicer. Remember Dr. Nathanson?

 

[hazmat]

stevegc: i havent dodged any question; youre just not understanding. but im patient, so i will walk you through this: “i gave my opinion that you should be able to remove anything from your body at any time. its my view that you should have control of what goes on in your body, even it it kills.” you ask why im ok with her killing a child because its in her body… clearly, im ok with it because she wants it out of her body–thats it.

you finally change your line of questioning–which you probably shouldve done in the first place: “What is it about the termination (killing) of a human life that does not phase you in your position?” it simply doesnt; just like forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term doesnt bother people who would ban abortion.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

stevegc: i havent dodged any question; youre just not understanding. but im patient, so i will walk you through this: “i gave my opinion that you should be able to remove anything from your body at any time. its my view that you should have control of what goes on in your body, even it it kills.” you ask why im ok with her killing a child because its in her body… clearly, im ok with it because she wants it out of her body–thats it.

you finally change your line of questioning to what you shouldve probably asked in the first place: “What is it about the termination (killing) of a human life that does not phase you in your position?” it simply doesnt; just like forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term doesnt bother people who would ban abortion.

Steve and Hazmat: Oy! It’s faze NOT phase. How long you two be this country?

 

[hazmat]

hey, i was just quoting him. i dont make it a point to call out errors unless theyre pertinent.

 

[qui_est_ce]

it simply doesnt; just like** forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term doesnt bother people who would ban abortion.**

Nobody FORCED the woman to get pregnant. She and her partner made that decision when they had sex.

Catholics, especiall, have many, many outreach services to help women in crisis pregnancies. Often they are located just doors away from the abortuary. We DO care about the baby AND the mother.

This van is parked in the parking lot of an abortuary.

smallvictoriesusa.com/

Here is the new Small Victories Ultrasound Van God has blessed us with. Thank you to those who have helped us to replace our 22 yr. old van with a new and improved Special Forces embedded for 17 years daily outside the Midwest’s largest, late-term abortion mill in Granite City , Illinois . We still need donations towards our pregnancy outreach mission at these gates of hell to continue doing Kingdom work through this vital ministry.
Small Victories has the dubious title of being the first in pioneering the mobile pregnancy movement by being a Window to the Womb and offering womb service to abortion-bound mothers. Many, many babies have been rescued, hearts touched, and lives saved- since January 2000, over 3,300 babies. Over 30 have been adopted. 2 Corinthians 4:1. If you haven’t already, consider partnering and supporting financially and prayerfully God’s holy work.

 

[hazmat]

i didnt say forced to get pregnant.

 

[Suudy]

i didnt say forced to get pregnant.

Well, I think everyone should be allowed to quit making payments on their houses and cars. Nobody force them to buy them, and it’s darn inconvenient making those payments. How dare the banks force me to make payments!

I also think people should be allowed to get off for driving drunk. Nobody forced them to drink, and it is darn inconvenient being detained by the police. How dare the police force me to stay in jail or pay a fine!

In fact, I think it pretty darn unfair that anybody forces me to accept the consequences of my actions. I’m with you hazmat, anything we want to do is fair game!