Obama plans curbs on guns

[JonNC]

=LeafByNiggle;13565308]Now you are looking inside people’s heads and pretending to know what they are thinking! In truth, you can only guess why this or that action was taken.

Don’t be ridiculous. You know as well as I do they have to go out of their way not to appear to be profiling. This is common knowledge, and you know it, Leaf.

As soon as it is known that anyone other than a Arabic middle eastern Islamic individual gets a free pass through the TSA, those bent on terrorism will instantly take advantage of that knowledge and get 10 year old white girls or 80 year old grandmothers to carry out their plans. This is exactly the reason for the use of women suicide bombers. They could escape the level of scrutiny that was previously reserved for men. I think the security people are smart to avoid those traps.

The TSA has a tough job. They have to fill the cracks, while being burdened by progressive politicians requiring political correct nonsense. No one is saying people should get a free pass, but the FACT remains that the overwhelming number of terrorist attacks are by Arabic, Islamic individuals. And it is curious that the current president seems to want to avoid that fact, even the name, at all cost.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=Leo2014;13565132]Jon…

I hate to pick on you, but your batting zero with me.

That’s okay. I’m a Phillies fan, and used to low batting averages.

I think before 911 we could all agree that driving a commercial plane into a building full of people was just an evil absurd idea that we saved for those movies we should not be watching. Shortly, after the events of that day, Madeleine Albright was asked; what could we have done to stop this? Of course, at that time she was no longer the Secretary of State. It would have been a perfect opportunity to slam Bush and his administration. However, she was gracious and did not make it a partisan issue. She defended her successor to the position (Colin Powell) and basically stated that they could not be everywhere. But that this tragedy taught them that they were dealing with a different set of variables, one that had not encountered before. You heard this sentiment echoed by many since this time.

Yes. I also heard the sentiments of some progressives that were quite the opposite, and that of the 9/11 truthers, and the anti-Israel/antisemitic crowd that populates the progressive movement.
The fact is both Republican and Democrat administrations miss signs, or fail to act, or simply never see something coming.

As a conservative, the biggest paradigm towards progress is the denial of change.

But not blind resistance to change. Change that reduces individual liberty, or increases government power, ought to be resisted with every fiber.

Change can be for the better or for the worse but it is still going to take place. The resulting cogency is best for everyone when we are united and express our ideas & values in a civil manner.

Thank you. Now please share this with the progressive movement on college campuses, who shout people down, protest speeches, and impose speech codes.

Take a look at the current state of the GOP? Trump is our main man and the party leaders don’t want him. What does this tell you about the health of the party?

I think it is a far better thing than how the DNC is taking every means possible to ensure the nomination of Clinton.

People like me are tired of hearing from people like you that things are OK, when they are not.
I am not just picking on you personally.

Good, because things are far from okay right now, and I’ve never said otherwise. What I have said is that government is not the solution to what is wrong, and is often at fault for what is wrong.

But each of us needs to look in the mirror, if we are not part of the solution than we are part of the problem.

And progressives need to understand that those of us who actually believe in the American system of governance will not simply be quiet, or bullied by charges of racism, sexism, or a miriad of "phobias"we are accused of in order to get us to be cowed into silence. IOW, the mirror progressives are looking in is distorted.

Jon

Hence, to solve problems, you need to be progressive and not reactive

 

[Lily_Bernans]

JonNC is right, they’ve failed miserably in achieving their objectives.

Spending undue effort on a 10yr old only further shows they’ve had no meaningful training in how to profile potential threats. Packing a juice box should not be major red flag. It shows they are looking in the wrong direction to anticipate threats.

Profiling doesn’t really work except on TV shows:

cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/05/iftikhar.profiling.does.not.work/

psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201402/does-criminal-profiling-work

There are a lot of other threads saying it doesn’t work.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Jon…

I hate to pick on you, but your batting zero with me.

I think before 911 we could all agree that driving a commercial plane into a building full of people was just an evil absurd idea that we saved for those movies we should not be watching. Shortly, after the events of that day, Madeleine Albright was asked; what could we have done to stop this? Of course, at that time she was no longer the Secretary of State. It would have been a perfect opportunity to slam Bush and his administration. However, she was gracious and did not make it a partisan issue. She defended her successor to the position (Colin Powell) and basically stated that they could not be everywhere. But that this tragedy taught them that they were dealing with a different set of variables, one that had not encountered before. You heard this sentiment echoed by many since this time.

As a conservative, the biggest paradigm towards progress is the denial of change. Change can be for the better or for the worse but it is still going to take place. The resulting cogency is best for everyone when we are united and express our ideas & values in a civil manner. Take a look at the current state of the GOP? Trump is our main man and the party leaders don’t want him. What does this tell you about the health of the party?

People like me are tired of hearing from people like you that things are OK, when they are not. I am not just picking on you personally. But each of us needs to look in the mirror, if we are not part of the solution than we are part of the problem.

Hence, to solve problems, you need to be progressive and not reactive

Before 9/11 if someone had suggested to me that terrorists would hijack four planes and fly two into the WTC and one into the pentagon, I would have said he should take his imagination to Hollywood. I’m definitely not an alarmist, but the US is different now, and we can’t afford to let a violation slide just because the violator is a kid.

Many other countries think the US is a joke. Trump is the pick of the GOP, as you stated. That alone says a lot, and none of it good. I like Trump well enough as a person, from what I know of him, but I don’t want him as president.

As you stated, things are definitely not OK in the US, and it’s counter-productive to pretend they are. We need sweeping reform. Agents doing their job in an airport is just a tiny start, but at least it’s a start.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Don’t be ridiculous. You know as well as I do they have to go out of their way not to appear to be profiling.

They have to go out of their way to do their job. Part of their job is to apply security criteria uniformly.

The TSA has a tough job. They have to fill the cracks, while being burdened by progressive politicians requiring political correct nonsense. No one is saying people should get a free pass, but the FACT remains that the overwhelming number of terrorist attacks are by Arabic, Islamic individuals.

I noticed that you are stopping short of saying what ought to be done because of that fact. Perhaps it is because there really is nothing to be done with that fact. You call something nonsense, but then you turn right around and imply that the same nonsense might be necessary after all - not for PC appearance reasons but for practical reasons.

 

[JonNC]

They have to go out of their way to do their job. Part of their job is to apply security criteria uniformly.

I noticed that you are stopping short of saying what ought to be done because of that fact. Perhaps it is because there really is nothing to be done with that fact. You call something nonsense, but then you turn right around and imply that the same nonsense might be necessary after all - not for PC appearance reasons but for practical reasons.

I’ve already said that I think a level of profiling should be considered. If security is to be applied uniformly it ought to pay a higher level of attention, not all of it to be sure, but a higher level on those groups that have proved a higher level of involvement with terror.

Jon

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I’ve already said that I think a level of profiling should be considered. If security is to be applied uniformly it ought to pay a higher level of attention, not all of it to be sure, but a higher level on those groups that have proved a higher level of involvement with terror.

Jon

How do you know that this level of profiling is not already being done? If the distinction is a small one, as you say, it might be unnoticed by a casual observation of news stories.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I love all the comparisons, no REALLY. How about this one.

If you want to save lives theres a million a year abortions its a NO BRAINER WHAT ABOUT THOSE LIVES you know THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES. How come THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES are not your war cry?

Aside from making no sense in relation to radical refugees from SYRIA and IRAQ LIKE IN THIS WEEKS NEWS!!! Your story is since we have so much to offer THEM, land of Freedom, Opportunity, Food, Land, Housing, Safety etc…we can do this for the POOR dead babies aborted, DEMOCRATS do NOT want to take care of and could less about the POOR DEAD BABIES. You make NO SENSE imo.

Then you would prefer to have a gun control conversation and your chant is the POOR DEAD “again” and even if it SAVES ONE LIFE, and while you prefer to save the Iraq and Syrian refugees lives of Allah which you want to save instead of our OWN POOR UNBORN MILLION DEAD BABIES, YOU GIVE DAILY CONSENT TO MURDER, and while some of those SYRIAN and IRAQ refugees choose to die screaming ALLAH. Ah no, I don’t think so. How about our gun control fear mongers SAVE a MILLION unborn LIVES a YEAR. You know how your rap goes about gun control…THOSE POOR DEAD CHILDREN what about THOSE MILLION POOR DEAD AMERICAN UNBORN.

 

[JonNC]

How do you know that this level of profiling is not already being done? If the distinction is a small one, as you say, it might be unnoticed by a casual observation of news stories.

How do you know that they are already being done? Considering that this president can’t even bring himself to breathe the term Islamic terrorist, it’s hard to imagine that his policies would reflect even a minimal level of targeted scrutiny

Jon

 

[Theo520]

I’m sure it doesn’t work if people are not trained, if race is the only characteristic used.
What’s So Great About Israeli Security
Predictive Profiling

Profiling doesn’t really work except on TV shows:

cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/05/iftikhar.profiling.does.not.work/

psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201402/does-criminal-profiling-work

There are a lot of other threads saying it doesn’t work.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I love all the comparisons, no REALLY. How about this one.

If you want to save lives theres a million a year abortions its a NO BRAINER WHAT ABOUT THOSE LIVES you know THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES. How come THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES are not your war cry?

Aside from making no sense in relation to radical refugees from SYRIA and IRAQ LIKE IN THIS WEEKS NEWS!!! Your story is since we have so much to offer THEM, land of Freedom, Opportunity, Food, Land, Housing, Safety etc…we can do this for the POOR dead babies aborted, DEMOCRATS do NOT want to take care of and could less about the POOR DEAD BABIES. You make NO SENSE imo.

Then you would prefer to have a gun control conversation and your chant is the POOR DEAD “again” and even if it SAVES ONE LIFE, and while you prefer to save the Iraq and Syrian refugees lives of Allah which you want to save instead of our OWN POOR UNBORN MILLION DEAD BABIES, YOU GIVE DAILY CONSENT TO MURDER, and while some of those SYRIAN and IRAQ refugees choose to die screaming ALLAH. Ah no, I don’t think so. How about our gun control fear mongers SAVE a MILLION unborn LIVES a YEAR. You know how your rap goes about gun control…THOSE POOR DEAD CHILDREN what about THOSE MILLION POOR DEAD AMERICAN UNBORN.

Okay, tell us what you’re doing to make abortion in the US? I mean no uncharitableness, but right now you’re posting on a gun control thread.

The innocent people who are killed by guns are important, too.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Please pay attention.

I gave two examples of their failure to anticipate and provided a link on their 95% failure rate in detecting known threats.

I’ll take your word for it because I’m not going to scroll back through hundreds of posts.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

How do you know that they are already being done? Considering that this president can’t even bring himself to breathe the term Islamic terrorist, it’s hard to imagine that his policies would reflect even a minimal level of targeted scrutiny

Jon

Obama does call them terrorists:

huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/18/obama-islamic-state-terrorists_n_6708610.html

I agree with his reasoning. To call them Islamic terrorists confers a religiosity on them they do not deserve. The problem is not with Islam; it’s with terrorism.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I’m sure it doesn’t work if people are not trained, if race is the only characteristic used.
What’s So Great About Israeli Security
Predictive Profiling

The links I posted took in more than race. Racial profiling never works.

 

[grotto]

If dead children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in addition to all the other mass murders, including those at a CO movie theatre and a SC church, all since Republicans took control of the House of Representatives, didn’t get Republicans to defy the gun lobby and act, I fear you may be correct.

---

Exploiting the deaths of children to further political ambitions is of the lowest form of self adulation. A mentally impaired man with an enabling mother providing the means to attack innocents has no business being pedalled through the use of crocodile tears and photo ops as Obama has flagrantly exploited.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

---

Exploiting the deaths of children to further political ambitions is of the lowest form of self adulation. A mentally impaired man with an enabling mother providing the means to attack innocents has no business being pedalled through the use of crocodile tears and photo ops as Obama has flagrantly exploited.

Have to say, I really think his tears were sincere. You may not like him, you may not agree with him, and that is your right, but he’s a husband and father. He’s no monster. As a father of vulnerable daughters, he can identify with the Sandy Hook parents. I don’t think he’ll even get Secret Service protection once he leaves the White House. I thought Bush was supposed to be the last, but unsure about that.

 

[Theo520]

The links I posted took in more than race. Racial profiling never works.

Yes, racial profiling by itself isn’t good, but race is a valid component of effective profiling.
The TSA is a PITA because they ignore effective profiling.

 

[Sarcelle]

I love all the comparisons, no REALLY. How about this one.

If you want to save lives theres a million a year abortions its a NO BRAINER WHAT ABOUT THOSE LIVES you know THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES. How come THOSE POOR DEAD BABIES are not your war cry?

Aside from making no sense in relation to radical refugees from SYRIA and IRAQ LIKE IN THIS WEEKS NEWS!!! Your story is since we have so much to offer THEM, land of Freedom, Opportunity, Food, Land, Housing, Safety etc…we can do this for the POOR dead babies aborted, DEMOCRATS do NOT want to take care of and could less about the POOR DEAD BABIES. You make NO SENSE imo.

Then you would prefer to have a gun control conversation and your chant is the POOR DEAD “again” and even if it SAVES ONE LIFE, and while you prefer to save the Iraq and Syrian refugees lives of Allah which you want to save instead of our OWN POOR UNBORN MILLION DEAD BABIES, YOU GIVE DAILY CONSENT TO MURDER, and while some of those SYRIAN and IRAQ refugees choose to die screaming ALLAH. Ah no, I don’t think so. How about our gun control fear mongers SAVE a MILLION unborn LIVES a YEAR. You know how your rap goes about gun control…THOSE POOR DEAD CHILDREN what about THOSE MILLION POOR DEAD AMERICAN UNBORN.

Feel free to start another thread on abortion and how evil it is. This thread is about gun control. A caveat, you will be preaching to the choir here.

Even better go to a forum with a majority hardcore radical feminist agenda and preach there.

 

[Peebo]

Have to say, I really think his tears were sincere. You may not like him, you may not agree with him, and that is your right, but he’s a husband and father. He’s no monster. As a father of vulnerable daughters, he can identify with the Sandy Hook parents. I don’t think he’ll even get Secret Service protection once he leaves the White House. I thought Bush was supposed to be the last, but unsure about that.

I would go a step further and say that anyone posting such a sick comment because of their own obvious political hatred of Obama because he shed tears over slaughtered children really is in need of confession for making such a disgusting statement not worthy of Catholic teaching nor worthy of this website

 

[GaryTaylor]

Okay, tell us what you’re doing to make abortion in the US? I mean no uncharitableness, but right now you’re posting on a gun control thread.

The innocent people who are killed by guns are important, too.

Okay, tell us what you’re doing to make abortion in the US?

I’m not sure what you mean? Abortion is an intrinsic evil guns are not. So abortion is a pro life priority. If we are talking about saving lives and the american idea of life liberty and justice for all and its protection, I think its a difficult overall philosophy of the Democrats, never mind in relation to Catholic teaching. How do we qualify all three abortion-gun control-immigration/refugees and talk self preservation and the sanctity of life-pro-life not just pro birth.

I mean no uncharitableness, but right now you’re posting on a gun control thread.

Oh no problem, me either. I think its a fascinating overall point I was listening to the other night argued by friends, and yes guns for sure and obvious in the equation. But its relevant I’ll show you. And there are points on this thread about specifically speaking from a Catholic perspective.

The innocent people who are killed by guns are important, too.

True, all life matters my favorite slogan, so how do we save the most in relation to guns, abortion and refugees and from a Catholic perspective? Or an American perspective? If each and every life matters we want to save the most.

uscatholic.org/blog/201304/gun-control-pro-life-issue-27145

And btw Hi! I like your thinking.