Obama- urges court, Gay Marriage ban

[epan]

Well, there it is, isn’t it? You can still not like gay marriage, you can still teach your children that homosexual behavior is wrong, and if I’m correct, your life hasn’t really changed.

Why would we not assume that if this is the case in the states where gay marriage is already legal, that it would be the case overall? We have evidence showing that it isn’t a major upheaval, but NONE that it is.

If you google the netherlands and gay marriage, you can find a lot of info. Here is an interesting little short article. What surprised me is that more people married in CA in a very short period, than in the Netherlands in 10 years. Also, that the divorce rate is higher for female couples than males. The Dutch experience is that a far lower percentage of gay couples marry than straight couples.

open.salon.com/blog/depfox/2011/04/02/10_years_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_netherlands

For me, there are essentially two aspects to the issue, the personal moral issue, and the public policy issue. I am libertarian enough to believe that public harm must be shown in order to preclude a right that someone asserts. There is a lot of gesturing and postulating about imagined public harm, but to understand real harm we do have states which have had gay marriage in place for some time. That is where was can look to see if the State has a pressing interest. If this cannot be shown, then the personal moral issues remain personal. This is the area of personal harm, if you will, and which is a personal decision. By that, I mean that it remains a matter of personal conscience, and not one of public discourse.

This approach, it seems to me, is precisely what protects religious freedom, and freedom of personal conscience and choice.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The Netherlands is going on 12 years now. That is the longest. They legalized gay marriage effective in 2001.

Right, I thought that was out there, I think also that when we say equal we need to be aware of the opposite in how we stigmatize people. Unfortunate as it is this has been the real tragedy. We have by large labeled and imprisoned these people and wrongly. This I see slowly changing. We seem to be selective here in whom we do this with.

SS is definitely a multi faceted issue though.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, there it is, isn’t it? You can still not like gay marriage, you can still teach your children that homosexual behavior is wrong, and if I’m correct, your life hasn’t really changed…

There it is. And no life hasn’t changed. The children are fine, its the childrens children I admit I worry about. But I can’t control everything.

Why would we not assume that if this is the case in the states where gay marriage is already legal, that it would be the case overall? We have evidence showing that it isn’t a major upheaval, but NONE that it is.

Rome is the opposing evidence. That is this blown out of proportion situation admittedly by psychopaths

 

[fix]

There it is. And no life hasn’t changed. The children are fine.

The children are not fine. The children in these homes are not fine. The children in school being indoctrinated are not fine. None of it is fine except to those who refuse to see.

 

[fix]

Jesus reached out to people who were shunned by the society then and converted them. I feel Obama too, is attempting the same.

You really ought to read the bible. Jesus said specifically that leading another to sin was deadly. There is no way around that.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The children are not fine. The children in these homes are not fine. The children in school being indoctrinated are not fine. None of it is fine except to those who refuse to see.

My children and grandchildren is the reference. The SS-marriage issue obviously I’m against.

 

[fix]

My children and grandchildren is the reference. The SS-marriage issue obviously I’m against.

Just pointing out that the notion all is well because the reductionists think the only harm is direct immediate physical pain is absolutely a lie.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Just pointing out that the notion all is well because the reductionists think the only harm is direct immediate physical pain is absolutely a lie.

I agree its another very liberal agenda.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18015135

 

[_Abyssinia]

Comments?

Fox News poll: Americans deeply divided over approval of same-sex marriage

American voters are split down the middle over whether same-sex marriage should be legalized, with the exact same percentage – 46 percent – in favor as opposed to it, according to the latest Fox News poll.

There are major differences based on age, political identification, region and religiosity. Voters under the age of 45, for example, are largely in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage (60 percent), while those ages 45 and older largely oppose it (57 percent).
Click for full poll results.

Most Democrats (64 percent) are in favor, while most Republicans are opposed (66 percent). Independents are more likely to favor same-sex marriage, 50 percent to 39 percent.

On the other hand, voters who regularly attend church services oppose gay marriage (65 percent), while over half of those who attend less frequently are in favor (53 percent).
At

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The new poll, released Monday, also shows regional differences on the issue.

Northeasterners favor gay marriage by a wide 34 percentage-point margin (63-29 percent), while Southerners oppose it by 21 points (57-36 percent). Westerners narrowly favor it (49-42 percent), and Midwesterners narrowly oppose it (48-45 percent).

Meanwhile, a majority of those living in urban areas are in favor of same-sex marriage (52 percent), and a majority of those in rural areas oppose it (55 percent).

Overall, those most likely to favor legalizing gay marriage include those who “never” attend church (79 percent), liberals (72 percent) and voters under age 30 (68 percent).
On the other side, those most opposed include “very” conservatives (79 percent), Tea Partiers (76 percent) and white evangelical Christians (71 percent).

The Fox News poll is based on landline and cell phone interviews with 1,010 randomly chosen registered voters nationwide and was conducted under the joint direction of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R) from February 25 to February 27. The full poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

 

[fix]

I agree its another very liberal agenda.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18015135

Those who see this as no big deal or as some faux right cannot see the real moral violence being done.

 

[CMatt25]

Again, whoever the President is, their responsibility is to ALL citizens. They aren’t your Priest, or your Pope. It’s not their job to enforce the traditions of your faith. ** It’s their job to enforce CIVIL law, which is not based on the traditions of any particular faith. And as has been illustrated above, not all faiths reject gay marriage.
**

Seeker, I give you props for your continued effort. And though I doubt it’s going to change anyone’s opinion here on what they think civil law should be in this case, capitalizing it was a great idea. Views on SS marriage with regard to civil law obviously have evolved and changed however among Americans outside CAF over the yrs.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Views on SS marriage with regard to civil law obviously have evolved and changed however among Americans outside CAF over the yrs.

Same chant was proclaimed with abortion, Think the Church might have been right? Or is it full speed ahead with Obama on that also?

 

[CMatt25]

Same chant was proclaimed with abortion, Think the Church might have been right? Or is it full speed ahead with Obama on that also?

While I know it’s typical on this forum to change the topic and chant the abortion issue no matter the topic of any thread, Seeker1961 appears to have already addressed this as well.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The only thing I wonder about Seeker is if he’s speaking to a Catholic spiritual advisor. I hope that’s not being too honest. I’m a bit confused over what "not a CAF Catholic means?

And forgive me for being so bold to ask.

 

[Dawnia]

The only thing I wonder about Seeker is if he’s speaking to a Catholic spiritual advisor. I hope that’s not being too honest. I’m a bit confused over what "not a CAF Catholic means?

And forgive me for being so bold to ask.

It’s similar to “I’m not one of thoooooossssseeee people”. (works best if you stick your nose in the air and have your hand on your chest)

 

[CMatt25]

The only thing I wonder about Seeker is if he’s speaking to a Catholic spiritual advisor. I hope that’s not being too honest. I’m a bit confused over what "not a CAF Catholic means?

And forgive me for being so bold to ask.

I’m not confused by it.

 

[CMatt25]

(works best if you stick your nose in the air and have your hand on your chest)

 

[fix]

I’m a bit confused over what "not a CAF Catholic means?

Good question. For one thing being a CAF Catholic should mean accepting all the Church teaches including:

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.

 

[CMatt25]

Good question. For one thing being a CAF Catholic should mean accepting all the Church teaches including:

I’m not a Catholic here so I really can’t speak as to the definition of “all”.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m not a Catholic here so I really can’t speak as to the definition of “all”.

So you have a split personality? Are you a Catholic “elsewhere?”