Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

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Jeanne_S said:
We are beating a dead horse IMHO,It is abundantly clear that those bent on voting for Obama,will do so,regardless of our good intentions to steer them in the other direction.Doesn’t matter what info is presented,the blinders are on.😦
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Good Americans willing to open their eyes to the hideous scandals of Fast and Furious, Benghazi and Solyndra (to name three of dozens) WILL change their minds and votes. People who care about corruption and incompetence have five weeks to accept the reality of an administration that does not have the best interests of our posterity in mind. The debt alone will destroy our system, and maybe, just maybe, some of the good folks will decide that they do NOT wish to wake up on Nov. 7th to a smiling Obama, and hopelessness for their children’s future. Keep the faith, Jeanne!! 👍 Rob
 
RACJ said:
Good Americans willing to open their eyes to the hideous scandals of Fast and Furious, Benghazi and Solyndra (to name three of dozens) WILL change their minds and votes. People who care about corruption and incompetence have five weeks to accept the reality of an administration that does not have the best interests of our posterity in mind. The debt alone will destroy our system, and maybe, just maybe, some of the good folks will decide that they do NOT wish to wake up on Nov. 7th to a smiling Obama, and hopelessness for their children’s future. Keep the faith, Jeanne!! 👍 Rob
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Thanks,Rob,back at ya!😉
 
Pitcharan said:
NO.

During the exodus from Egypt in the Desert of Sin, many Israelites indulged in obnoxious sins including unnatural sex. They did not listen to Aaron and persisted in their sinfulness. So God 'gave them over to their depraved mind, to do do what ought not to be done’.

It is those sinful people who are to be blamed for their sins and not God.

I am not even remotely suggesting that abortion is God’s fault. I am only saying that it is the people who abort who are answerable to God and not the lawmakers who did not think it necessary to have penal laws against abortion. I am drawing a parallel with the ancient law which permitted divorce, for which the hard-hearted Israelites who demanded it were responsible and Moses who gave the Law was not guilty in any way.
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I understand what you are saying, however you are comparing apples to oranges. Divorce is in no way equal to abortion. Law makers and voters are bound by Natural Law to defend the most vulnerable among us, this especially includes the unborn. We, lawmakers and voters, will be held accountable for our actions; as is illustrated in the verses that follow the one you mentioned.
  1. "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips 30 and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. 31They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I accept that as your thoughtful conclusion, but I am not going to be as partisan as you and will not carry water for either man, both of whom I find inadequate to be elected/re-elected as our President.
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I understand,that is your prerogative…
 
Lapey said:
More so than being judged by God because of our conscience, we will be judged on how we accept the teachings of the Church on the formation of our consciences. If we follow our conscience in true faith, there are limits to our culpability in our mistakes, and I mean ours as in all of us. But is we obstinately refuse to examine and form our conscience to be in line with our Church’s authoritative teaching, well then our culpability may and will rise. If you “abhor” abortion and same sex “marriage”, how do you put yourself in Obama’s corner? These are his core beliefs and the democrat party’s platform? This should mean something to you.
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If you look at Romney’s record, when he had power, he was pro-abortion. His record on gay rights is equally spotty. Given the right amount of pressure, Romney always flip flops and does what he is told.
 
Carlan said:
and that is that Jesus wins.
Peace be with you, Carlan
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Tell that to the millions killed under Stalin and Hitler.

Yea, Jesus wins. Are we to just stand by and say “Jesus wins?”

Jas 2:14-18
What good is it, my brothers and sisters,
if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear
and has no food for the day,
and one of you says to them,
"Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well, "
but you do not give them the necessities of the body,
what good is it?
So also faith of itself,
if it does not have works, is dead.

Indeed someone might say,
“You have faith and I have works.”
Demonstrate your faith to me without works,
and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
 
HansTrappist said:
If you look at Romney’s record, when he had power, he was pro-abortion. His record on gay rights is equally spotty. Given the right amount of pressure, Romney always flip flops and does what he is told.
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If that is the case,just imagine the good influence Paul Ryan will have on him;)
 
Lapey said:
More so than being judged by God because of our conscience, we will be judged on how we accept the teachings of the Church on the formation of our consciences. If we follow our conscience in true faith, there are limits to our culpability in our mistakes, and I mean ours as in all of us.
But is we obstinately refuse to examine and form our conscience to be in line with our Church’s authoritative teaching, well then our culpability may and will rise. If you “abhor” abortion and same sex “marriage”, how do you put yourself in Obama’s corner? These are his core beliefs and the democrat party’s platform? This should mean something to you
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Sounds to me like you are inferring that I and maybe a few others here obstinately refuse
to examine our and form our conscience in line with the Church. Wrong judgment sir.

I will just post a bit of what the Bishops have to say,

A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism,
if the voter’s intent is to support that position.In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in grave evil.
At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other important moral issues involving human life and dignity. Peace, Carlan
USCCB
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lapey said:
  1. "and since they did not see fit to acknowledge god, god handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 they are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. they are gossips 30 and scandalmongers and they hate god. they are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
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only they and not aaron or moses.
lapey said:
32although they know the just decree of god that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
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God’s decree not man’s. Men are not the judges.
 
HansTrappist said:
If you look at Romney’s record, when he had power, he was pro-abortion. His record on gay rights is equally spotty. Given the right amount of pressure, Romney always flip flops and does what he is told.
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Do you give Obama a pass with his “evolution” on gay marriage?
 
Jeanne_S said:
If that is the case,just imagine the good influence Paul Ryan will have on him;)
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One could only hope. But don’t hold your breath. And there is something fishy about this Ryan character. I mean, his major selling point is “the economy” but when Republicans had almost total power between 2001-2006, Ryan was voting for big-government, big-education, corporate welfare, and for reckless expensive warfare. Ryan would have been the last person I would have picked. But I guess Romney had to do something to try to convince us that he is pro-life, because anyone who looks at his history and record when he had power, when it mattered, knows that he is not pro-life and knows how he stabbed the Catholic Church in the back in 2005. Trust but verify. Mitt fails that test.
 
HansTrappist said:
If you look at Romney’s record, when he had power, he was pro-abortion. His record on gay rights is equally spotty. Given the right amount of pressure, Romney always flip flops and does what he is told.
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Why is Romney’s change considerred flip flopping, and Obama’s is a virtuous evolution? I don’t get that. If I have to trust one of these guys, I trust Obama’s recent record, words and actions more. I know who he is and what he stands for, it is proven.
 
Lapey said:
Why is Romney’s change considerred flip flopping, and Obama’s is a virtuous evolution? I don’t get that. If I have to trust one of these guys, I trust Obama’s recent record, words and actions more. I know who he is and what he stands for, it is proven.
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I never said anything about Obama’s evolution. Either you are confusing me with someone else here or you are putting words into my mouth.

I think the record is clear on both Obama and Romney: they are both pro-murder (albeit to varying degrees).

I will not vote for Romney simply because less babies will be murdered under his presidency than under Obama’s. I like to sleep well at night.
 
migueltojose said:
Does this… Cardinal Burke… represent THE official position of the Church in this regard?

He left St Louis after protecting as many ‘naughty’ priests as he could… he alienated one of the biggest and best “old school” Catholic communities…
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If you can post someone in the Magestrium disputing him , please do so.
 
CMatt25 said:
That’s exactly what Burke says to do.

While he said for him “it is difficult to imagine what that proportionate reason would be”, Burke said “(the voter must) believe the politician’s stance on other moral issues outweighs the abortion issue.”“If the reasons are really proportionate, and the person remains clear about his or her opposition to abortion, that can be done,” Burke said.

“What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life?” Burke asked.

Burke’s answer: “That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/sep/04090703

So there ya go straight from Burke himself.

God bless each of us as we vote our consciences. Peace.
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Nonsense. Heres what you left out:

“In North America, where abortion - the slaughter of the innocent and most helpless among us - is rampant, abortion is the central human rights concern and thus the overriding political concern in all elections**. All who would vote for a pro-abortion politician would associate themselves with that atrocity. **However, in a case where two pro-abortion politicians are vying for election, a pro-life Catholic may, in good conscience, vote for the politician who will give at least minimal protection to life such as the case where one of the pro-abortion politicians would support a partial-birth abortion ban.”
 
CMatt25 said:
Of course it doesn’t make sense to you Ishii. Your conscience is telling you something different than another’s conscience in regard to who to cast a vote for. It really isn’t that hard to understand. Everyone just pray on it and follow your consciences and be at peace. 🤷
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The Church does NOT teach primacy of conscience; Heres what the Cathecism says:

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and** tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.**

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and** guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55**

What you have done is a common rationalization for supporting evil. You have taken a single line out of context from a single statement and come to a profound theological conclusion based on nothing more than your flawed personal interpretation of the small scrap of information
 
Pitcharan said:
I don’t think that either the Catholics or any other community is foolish. Individuals vote freely according to their own consciences and it is God’s will that prevails ultimately. Try answering the 5 questions I posted.
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You are NOT to vote for a pro abortion candidate as a Catholic.What is it that you are not getting? Do the research if you are so perplexed. You are to vote for the candidate that will do the least harm to the unborn. Read the Catholic voters guide to start.
 
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