Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

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Yep. I know people will yell “Godwin’s Law,” but, to me, it would be like saying “I didn’t support Hitler’s killing of the Jews (and others). I was supporting him for all the good things he did to build Germany up.” 🤷
It was a foregone conclusion it would end up at Hitler eventually anyway.

But as the case were, the question about any candidate is this: what have we seen him demonstrate?

We’ve seen Obama certainly demonstrate a desire to make abortion more prevalent We know the evil he has and plans to commit in that respect. I could not vote for Barack Obama, personally, even if he had developed and passed out for free the cure for cancer, because as much good as he would have done for life, he allows and desires the death of our children if we want them dead. Even he should know you can’t have an economy without more people being born, educated, and working to keep it going.

In the long run, any candidate who supports abortion as a right is supporting bad economic and moral policy. It will come back upon the children of those who vote for it. It already is harming the economy.
 
It was a foregone conclusion it would end up at Hitler eventually anyway.

But as the case were, the question about any candidate is this: what have we seen him demonstrate?

We’ve seen Obama certainly demonstrate a desire to make abortion more prevalent We know the evil he has and plans to commit in that respect. I could not vote for Barack Obama, personally, even if he had developed and passed out for free the cure for cancer, because as much good as he would have done for life, he allows and desires the death of our children if we want them dead. Even he should know you can’t have an economy without more people being born, educated, and working to keep it going.

In the long run, any candidate who supports abortion as a right is supporting bad economic and moral policy. It will come back upon the children of those who vote for it. It already is harming the economy.
I offered up an end to poverty in America as a “proportionate reason,” but it was shot down. Perhaps, a cure to cancer…

CMatt25, would you consider a cure for cancer as a fair trade-off for the right to kill innocent humans? Is that a good proportionate reason? Al? Are you still sticking with the "well, Romney won’t do anything different than the proven pro-abortion president?
 
Ishii, it’s already been explained by Obama voters why they are voting for Obama. That was the topic of the thread. To explain why you are voting for who you are. People of faith have done so on both sides. I know you don’t agree with the Obama voters justification and reasons and that’s fine. They obviously don’t agree with the way you see it. That’s just part of the American electoral process. Not everyone agrees. We have an election and see where the chips fall. Then we have another the next cycle.

Here’s how Burke explained it.

“What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life?” Burke asked.

Burke: “That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience.”

lifesitenews.com/news/arc…4/sep/04090703

Peace Ishii
I want you to explain it, Cmatt. What is more important than 15 million babies killed? Are government programs that important to you, Cmat, that they outweigh the lives of 15 million? Please explain.

Ishii
 
By now the whole world should realize that it was God who hand picked Obama to head the most powerful nation. His election is a baffling miracle in a land that has demonstrated rabid intolerance based on color and religion.
INTROSPECT PLEASE!
  1. Is it pro-adultery to deem it unfit to introduce a penal law against “lustful looks”?
  2. Is it pro-murder to think it unwise to introduce penal laws against mothers who abort their babies?
  3. Can someone who is committed to bring down abortion rates through positive campaigns and other means, be branded pro-abortion?
  4. Permission for divorce as per Mosaic law: who was at fault? Moses or the hard-hearted people who demanded and got such a law from Moses?
  5. In this case who is at fault? God or humans: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Rom 1:28)
    OBAMA ZINDABAD! GOD BLESS AMERICA! WOHI HOGA JO MANZOOR-E-KHUDA HOGA!!!
 
By now the whole world should realize that it was God who hand picked Obama to head the most powerful nation. His election is a baffling miracle in a land that has demonstrated rabid intolerance based on color and religion.
INTROSPECT PLEASE!
  1. Is it pro-adultery to deem it unfit to introduce a penal law against “lustful looks”?
  2. Is it pro-murder to think it unwise to introduce penal laws against mothers who abort their babies?
  3. Can someone who is committed to bring down abortion rates through positive campaigns and other means, be branded pro-abortion?
  4. Permission for divorce as per Mosaic law: who was at fault? Moses or the hard-hearted people who demanded and got such a law from Moses?
  5. In this case who is at fault? God or humans: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Rom 1:28)
    OBAMA ZINDABAD! GOD BLESS AMERICA! WOHI HOGA JO MANZOOR-E-KHUDA HOGA!!!
:whacky:
 
I see your point, Carlan. We need to do all the things you mention above, and more of it! Thanks for pointing that out. Now allow me to point out this: Did it ever occur to you that maybe God wants us to exercise our rights in this country we live in to vote out those politicians who want to perpetuate the slaughter of the unborn and keep it legal and accessible? Its not one or the other, Carlan - prayer OR political action. Its both. Think about it - if we as Catholics can’t even figure out the moral necessity of defeating a candidate who supports partial birth abortion, how can we sincerely pray to God to end abortion? It doesn’t make sense to me - perhaps you could explain.

Ishii
Ishii, we are both voting our conscience , I accept that fact concerning your vote, now if you cannot respect my right to vote mine that is up to you.
I have already answered the Question of the thread. God is my judge, your judge and President Obama’s judge and everyother person answering the ?asked.
End of discussion, thank you very much!
Peace to all as always,Carlan
 
Ishii, we are both voting our conscience , I accept that fact concerning your vote, now if you cannot respect my right to vote mine that is up to you.
I have already answered the Question of the thread. God is my judge, your judge and President Obama’s judge and everyother person answering the ?asked.
End of discussion, thank you very much!
Peace to all as always,Carlan
Does the pro life teaching of the Church inform your conscience?
 
There have been a lot of articles on how Planned Parenthood has put out ads attacking Mitt Romney. He is taking a courageous stance against abortion, no matter what one can find from 2006 and before. He became pro-life by the last election, 2008 when he ran. Yes, maybe it’s politics and he governed too one of the more liberal states.

lifenews.com/2012/09/28/planned-parenthood-flooding-mailboxes-with-attacks-on-romney/

And to think the US government funds planned parenthood even if “in theory”, taxpayer dollars do not directly fund the abortions themselves <---- At least this is what pro-choicers would say, I have seen the arguments. Planned Parenthood should NOT be funded period. You can’t really separate it out, PPH is the largest provider of abortions in the US and sells them like a racket.
 
By now the whole world should realize that it was God who hand picked Obama to head the most powerful nation. His election is a baffling miracle in a land that has demonstrated rabid intolerance based on color and religion.
INTROSPECT PLEASE!
  1. Is it pro-adultery to deem it unfit to introduce a penal law against “lustful looks”?
  2. Is it pro-murder to think it unwise to introduce penal laws against mothers who abort their babies?
  3. Can someone who is committed to bring down abortion rates through positive campaigns and other means, be branded pro-abortion?
  4. Permission for divorce as per Mosaic law: who was at fault? Moses or the hard-hearted people who demanded and got such a law from Moses?
  5. In this case who is at fault? God or humans: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Rom 1:28)
    OBAMA ZINDABAD! GOD BLESS AMERICA! WOHI HOGA JO MANZOOR-E-KHUDA HOGA!!!
Step away from the keyboard…:ehh:
 
Hey, migueltojose, don’t give up hope, You must remember what Jesus told Peter in the Gospel of Matthew, " The gates of hell will not prevail against the Kingdom of God".
Too many here in these threads seem to have forgotten that Truth.
Welcome, and Peace, Carlan
I truly take offense to this statement! How do many of us forget this message, and I’m sure you speak of people like me who support a candidate whom you choose to think evil of???

Please tell me, a “Herald of the Gospel”, a deacon in the Church, how do I forget the gospel??? Please, if you’re going to preach the Gospel, preach the WHOLE Gospel, not just the “nice” parts you agree with.

Why is it that only people who espouse the teachings of the Church in truth, seem to be the evil ones? I mentioned a verse from Wisdom earlier, please go back and read it; Wisdom 2:12. We live in a bubble of right winged GOP love for party, but the other side is so virtuous and thinking and enlightened? Really?

How did we get here??? You may be able to say you disagree on these issues, but you or any of you cohorts on this site cannot tell me, or any of us, we have forgotten the gospel, or I am a corporatist who misuses the laws and system to take advantage of the less fortunate. Some of the things some of you say about us who have different opinions are scary.

I have asked this question several times and none of you of the opposite opinion have dared to answer it, how does it feel to believe that half of the population of our country is automatically evil or terrible where it comes to helping the poor just because of their party affiliation? How miserable you must be?
 
You are just being rude to me Robert.YOU KNOW QUITE WELL THAT I AM NOT VOTING FOR OUR PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION ON CHOICE OR "GAY MARRIAGE
Peace, Carlan
You are offended because you think someone is rude? Oh my…:o

You can say whatever you like, bottom line is, to support the candidate of that platform, Dem platform, is to support that platform. To vote for Obama is to support that platform and in turn participate in that platform. That platform endorses abortion rights and same sex unions, and other intrinsic evils.
 
I don’t think anyone is worried the Church will disappear.It has had to underground at various times in history, but has always survived.

God however made no such promises about America though. If we continue to turn our backs on Him, there are no guarantees He will protect our existence.
God will bless America abundantly. Obama is really a Catholic in the true sense of the word.

**God bless America with another term for Obama! May his tribe increase!!! **
 
By now the whole world should realize that it was God who hand picked Obama to head the most powerful nation. His election is a baffling miracle in a land that has demonstrated rabid intolerance based on color and religion.
INTROSPECT PLEASE!
  1. Is it pro-adultery to deem it unfit to introduce a penal law against “lustful looks”?
  2. Is it pro-murder to think it unwise to introduce penal laws against mothers who abort their babies?
  3. Can someone who is committed to bring down abortion rates through positive campaigns and other means, be branded pro-abortion?
  4. Permission for divorce as per Mosaic law: who was at fault? Moses or the hard-hearted people who demanded and got such a law from Moses?
  5. In this case who is at fault? God or humans: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Rom 1:28)
    OBAMA ZINDABAD! GOD BLESS AMERICA! WOHI HOGA JO MANZOOR-E-KHUDA HOGA!!!
Baffling yes, miracle no. Only the hand of a foolish Catholic would pull the lever for Obama as he voices the upholding of the “right” to destroy the unborn.
 
That’s exactly what Burke says to do.

While he said for him “it is difficult to imagine what that proportionate reason would be”, Burke said “(the voter must) believe the politician’s stance on other moral issues outweighs the abortion issue.”“If the reasons are really proportionate, and the person remains clear about his or her opposition to abortion, that can be done,” Burke said.

“What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life?” Burke asked.

Burke’s answer: “That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/sep/04090703

So there ya go straight from Burke himself.

God bless each of us as we vote our consciences. Peace.
We have been over this countless times, but you ignore it. A well formed conscience will not contradict Church teachings. Please go back and read the entire sections of the CCC that were posted a few pages back; not just the ones that say we have the duty top follow, but read the CCCs that dictate the duty to inform it as well. A person’s conscience is not the same at death as it is at birth; it will develop as we learn more about God and His Church. When we become so learned that we have nothing else to learn, this is where we error.
 
Baffling yes, miracle no. Only the hand of a foolish Catholic would pull the lever for Obama as he voices the upholding of the “right” to destroy the unborn.
I don’t think that either the Catholics or any other community is foolish. Individuals vote freely according to their own consciences and it is God’s will that prevails ultimately. Try answering the 5 questions I posted.
 
Of course it doesn’t make sense to you Ishii. Your conscience is telling you something different than another’s conscience in regard to who to cast a vote for. It really isn’t that hard to understand. Everyone just pray on it and follow your consciences and be at peace. 🤷
I agree with this almost entirely, except you left out one part, the formation part. We must follow our conscience, our properly formed conscience.

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path, we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.

I know and understand that you and those who believe like you that it is “ok” to vote the way you are planning mean to do the best for all with your vote, but we must realize it goes against the moral teachings of the Church. Neither poverty, nor taxation or anything else any of you have brought up are “proportionate” to the issues listed as intrinsically evil.

Again, I say, we have to get past the right/left, rep/dem rhetoric in our conversations. I have been lumped into the generalization just as you have from the other direction, and I resent that just as you do. So can we please have an intelligent conversation and stop the general insults? How about this, you call out you side’s offenders and I’ll call out the offenders on my side. Let charity begin with us.:confused:
 
No, Cmatt - explain how one can justify voting for candidates who will keep the abortion mills running - and ensure the legal slaughter of 15 million. Explain it to me.

Ishii
  1. The abortion mills as you call them, have been running legally regardless of election outcomes.
  2. Abortion is not the SINGLE issue of faith in the this election. If some Catholics wish to focus on abortion to the exclusion of all else, that is their prerogative. Some others, like me, may choose to put BOTH candidates under the faith microscope and take that into account when making a decision.
Either way, the “mills” run. As a Catholic, I am obliged (and happy to) do all in my power to oppose abortion. If I disagree that legal remedies can do much, if anything, to contain the problem, that is my personal stance and I will not force it on anyone else with name-calling or accusations.
 
Ok, I’ll try…😃
By now the whole world should realize that it was God who hand picked Obama to head the most powerful nation. His election is a baffling miracleThis was no miracle, it was more along the lines of a white guilt complex, now we’ve seen the results. It’s time to move on from this guilt. I would love to see the conversations had a black conservative been the nominee. Just sayin’. in a land that has demonstrated rabid intolerance based on color and religion.
INTROSPECT PLEASE!
  1. Is it pro-adultery to deem it unfit to introduce a penal law against “lustful looks”?You mean like sharia law???
  2. Is it pro-murder to think it unwise to introduce penal laws against mothers who abort their babies?Yes it is…if a child is killed in the womb by a rapists, he is charged with infanticide. If a doctor at teh mother’s request kills the child in th ewomb its called the woman’s right to choose. Yes it should be considered murder, that’s what it is.
  3. Can someone who is committed to bring down abortion rates through positive campaigns and other means, be branded pro-abortion?doesn’t make sense with th elittle information you give.
  4. Permission for divorce as per Mosaic law: who was at fault? Moses or the hard-hearted people who demanded and got such a law from Moses?Jesus says it is “because of the hardness of your hearts.” I think you can answer that one.
  5. In this case who is at fault? God or humans:Or you even remotely trying to say God is at fault for abortion??? Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Rom 1:28)Help me understand.
    OBAMA ZINDABAD! GOD BLESS AMERICA! WOHI HOGA JO MANZOOR-E-KHUDA HOGA!!!
Will you be voting in the American presidential election from India?
 
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