Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

[Scott_Lafrance]

There is no “cutting taxes for the rich”. It’s called “not raising taxes during a recession”. What kind of doublethink does one need to deduct “keeping current rate = tax cut”??? Does 2+2=7,821.47513?

most folks bere know that i homeschool my kids. We are studying logic and our textbook calls this period of history “the abyss of critical thinking.” People will literally believe anything they are told.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

most folks bere know that i homeschool my kids. We are studying logic and our textbook calls this period of history “the abyss of critical thinking.” People will literally believe anything they are told.

I don’t believe that.:coffeeread:

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

most folks bere know that i homeschool my kids. We are studying logic and our textbook calls this period of history “the abyss of critical thinking.” People will literally believe anything they are told.

Then your kids better be cautious about anything you tell them.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Then your kids better be cautious about anything you tell them.

my kids are being taught to test all premises for validity even mine. Believe what can be proven unless they can absolutely trust the source. ad fontem fallacies abound in interpersonal relations, there is a reason why they are the most common of all logical fallacies. Generally, people are unreliable.

 

[CMatt25]

Catholic teaching says not to vote for those that support intrinsic evils such as homosexual marriage, abortion and embryonic stem cell research. Obama supports all of the above and he supports the religious liberty infringing HHS mandate which has 29 lawsuits, many from the Catholic dioceses and institutions. Bishops have also spoken of the problems with the Obama health care law which has lack of conscience protection and allows federal funds to pay for abortion among other issues

Reading through many threads on this subforum it doesn’t take one long to see there is much debate among Catholics here about voting. Some who clearly profess to be faithful, practicing Catholics disagree with you and others about it. So I see no consensus among Catholics on this. It actually can appear to me at times that in a way those who most lean toward Republican or conservative politics and their general policies on a whole host of issues in the first place are the ones who agree mostly with you.

In this thread alone for example I see Catholics such as Rence in post #34 responded to you. And Zenith 15 who is pro life in post #15 spoke of agreeing with me and mentioned speaking to his pastor and reading the bishops’ Faithful Citizenship. And I’ve been shown on another thread, if I’m not mistaken also in Faithful Citizenship, where Catholics are not to use opposition to intrinsic evil as reason to be indifferent to other issues. And that faithful Catholics can vote for a pro choice candidate such as Obama as long as their intent for doing so is not to support abortion. That a Catholic may find other serious moral reasons for voting for him. And the bishops list many other serious moral issues.

God’s blessings and peace always to all of us here.

 

[CMatt25]

I agree with CMatt also, but as Meltzer said, be prepared for the onslaught.

I would like to add that though I am pro life, I have discussed my choice extensively with my pastor and have read the USCCB Faithful Citizenship bulletin, and my personal feeling is that voting for Romney and Ryan and all they stand for would be a serious enough grave evil to sway my vote despite Obama’s pro choice stance. That’s my feeling and my opinion, having read, thought and studied–please don’t attack it and I won’t attack yours.

Hi Zenith, well so far I’ve made it thru pg 9 or 10 and so far it hasn’t been as bad as usual. I was totally prepared for the :hammering: and was going to look for a hardhat before reading through. But actually very tame to my surprise. Maybe they took heed of yours and Meltzer’s posts. Thank you. God bless and peace be with you.

 

[JMJSHJ]

No sincere Catholic can vote for Obama. How often does Obama have to put restrictions on us to privately practice our faith before we realize how bad he is? Affordable health care is nice and needed but to be indifferent to abortion at the same time makes your credibility nil to sincere Catholics.

 

[Jeffrey]

:clapping:

I will vote for Romney for all of the reasons that Matt25 won’t vote for him.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I will vote for Romney for all of the reasons that Matt25 won’t vote for him.

A standoff, then. You two will cancel each other’s vote. LOL!

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

How often does Obama have to put restrictions on us to privately practice our faith before we realize how bad he is?

Neither he nor anyone else has restricted the private practice of our faith.

 

[Dawnia]

I want to vote for Romney, but having never voted for anyone who has actually won, I might vote for Obama instead to keep my loosing streak going.

I have far more confidence that Romney will accomplish what he sets out to do. Being a business man he can work with businesses to find workable solutions for increasing jobs and not killing businesses.

He also has a record of working with Dems. Someone willing to work with the other party as opposed to just going around them (legal or not) is sorely needed. A bird can’t fly without both wings working together.

What sealed it for me was the video at the RNC about the rangehood lightbulb which he replaced with a regular lighbulb and to keep everyone from getting blinded used duct tape & aluminum foil as a cover. If he’s that big of a tighta** at home, then he’ll be that way on the job. And unfortunately, that is exactly what we need in the Whitehouse to get this country back in the black. It may take some short term sacrifices, but in the long term this country will be way better off.

 

[_Abyssinia]

So I guess using this rationale we can’t vote for Romney either because of his blasphemy and heretical beliefs. I’m with the others saying they will set this one out.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting evil!

Cardinal Dolan says

“There may be reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney as president of the United States,” Dolan said during an appearance on CBS’s Face the Nation. “That he’s a Mormon cannot be one of them.”

Dolan, who is archbishop of the New York diocese, later added: “I don’t think Catholics would have any problem voting for a Mormon at all.”

Dolan told host Bob Schieffer that he brought up Romney’s religion a couple of months ago in a speech to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League when he was asked how the Jewish and Catholic communities could cooperate better.
He said he told the audience that “we Catholics and we Jews have felt the sting of the other side. And now, one of the ways we can cooperate is to see that religious prejudice, religious bigotry doesn’t enter the campaign.” Dolan said the remarks drew a standing ovation.

Bishop Gracida says in reference to the 2004 election but these guidelines can be applied to any election

Those Catholic voters who love moral absolutes would have no choice but to vote for candidate, but those Catholics who recognize that in the real world it is sometimes necessary to choose the lesser of two evils in order to prevent greater harm—in this case harm to innocent unborn children would vote for candidate

 

[benjammin]

Romney and Ryan will gut programs designed to help the poor. They don’t care about the poor at all. They want to make sure that the rich get theirs and maybe it will trickle down…Spoiler: it won’t trickle down.

And I find it hilarious that some Catholics are more interested in gay marriage than they are about helping the poor. THAT is shameful in my opinion. Then again Jesus spoke constantly about gay marriage and I don’t recall him ever saying anything about helping the poor.

Oh please, most americans who are considered poor aren’t even really poor. If someone has cable, are they poor? if someone is able to support their family on a small income, are they poor? My mother is a teacher and my dad has been dead since I was 15 and all he ever did was farm and work at a local plastics plant. Not exactly rich and barely middle class. I know people who make even less than my family and get by. Yes we should help those who don’t have jobs or aren’t able to provide for their families. But Poor is a relative term. Also, you must not know many catholics. I know many who want and do help the poor. We run so many hospitals, we run many charities. We practically invented charity. Sure like any other faith there are individuals who don’t care about poor people, but you can find that even among atheists ( like Ayn Rand).

That being said, I agree that wealth won’t trickle down. But maybe we should be like the rich and save our money.

 

[irishpatrick]

And I find it hilarious that some Catholics are more interested in gay marriage than they are about helping the poor. THAT is shameful in my opinion. Then again Jesus spoke constantly about gay marriage and I don’t recall him ever saying anything about helping the poor.

Question: Is Jesus God?

 

[irishpatrick]

my kids are being taught to test all premises for validity even mine. Believe what can be proven unless they can absolutely trust the source. ad fontem fallacies abound in interpersonal relations, there is a reason why they are the most common of all logical fallacies. Generally, people are unreliable.

Trust no one without absolute proofs–interesting method, yet very sad imo.

I feel differently. I feel a great many people are reliable and trustworthy. Not all people are, but most are.

 

[CMatt25]

A standoff, then. You two will cancel each other’s vote. LOL!

Well Jeanne and I are both in swing states though mine has more electoral votes.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

You’re going to get a lot more Romney supporters because the vast majority on this forum are political conservatives.

But I’m voting for Obama: Wow there are so many reasons it’s not even close for me. Here are several but not an exhaustive list.

If we don’t change the House of Representaives, I want a check and balance to the Tea Party and much of what today’s Republican Party stands for.

Obama finally got something done on healthcare. The sick with pre existing conditions before Obamacare could be denied health care coverage. And too many people in the richest nation on earth have gone without adequate healthcare because they do not have employer health care coverage or do not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. This has always been a disgrace to me when other industrialized countries have been able to provide their citizens with universal healthcare and the richest on nation has failed miserably at doing so. Obamacare is not perfect. I’d have preferred single payer or a public option. But is better than the status quo.

I totally reject the Paul Ryan budget which was supported by nearly every Republican. I want Paul Ryan nowhere near the White House. Like Sister Simone of the Catholic faith and the other nuns on the bus, I will not sit back and do nothing to try to stop such severe cuts to programs affecting the poor. I completely reject a philosophy that it is moral to cut food stamps, to cut healthcare and programs like Headstart. While the Republicans increase defense spending and refuse to even come to the table if it means asking the wealthiest among us to pay a little more in the form of a tax rate increase. I will not stand aside while the Republicans try to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and the middle class without asking more sacrifice from the rich. I also oppose the Medicare plan Ryan had in his budget.

Obama inherited the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Look up how many jobs per month we were losing before he took office. We’ve been gaining jobs for many months under Obama. No one claims we are where we need to be but the economy is turning around compared to where it was and I’m willing to give it more time.

The auto industry is alive.

The Iraq war is over. And Obama has a plan in place to bring troops home from Afghanistan. While Romney did not even mention Afghanistan in his convention speech. The expense of these 2 wars has been tremendous. And I fear the same neo cons who advised George W Bush advise Romney.

I’m glad because of President Obama children of immigrants, young people who know our country as their home and who pledge alliegance to the same flag I do, today are not living in fear of deportation.

Osama Bin Laden was found under the direction of this Commander in Chief.

There’s more but that’s quite a number of my reasons.

Finally, someone explains why they are voting for Obama. Couldn’t understand why anyone would before. Thanks for your reasoning (despite the fact that everyone should vote Romney/Ryan! ) .

 

[CMatt25]

Neither he nor anyone else has restricted the private practice of our faith.

As far as I know you can still do many things practicing Catholics do in private to practice and adhere to their faith. You can even gather with other members of the public and still attend Mass, receive the Eucharist in your churches. And pray the rosary both in your churches and homes.

 

[CMatt25]

Finally, someone explains why they are voting for Obama. Couldn’t understand why anyone would before. Thanks for your reasoning (despite the fact that everyone should vote Romney/Ryan! ) .

Well that was the question and all I did was answer it.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Romney and Ryan will gut programs designed to help the poor. They don’t care about the poor at all. They want to make sure that the rich get theirs and maybe it will trickle down…Spoiler: it won’t trickle down.

And I find it hilarious that some Catholics are more interested in gay marriage than they are about helping the poor. THAT is shameful in my opinion. Then again Jesus spoke constantly about gay marriage and I don’t recall him ever saying anything about helping the poor.

Kind of judgmental don’t you think? Saying they don’t care about the poor is a big jump from saying in your prudential judgment their policies won’t help the poor.

Maybe Catholics are concerned about gay marriage because it harms the family. A strong family helps the poor since much of poverty is from not having an intact family. Gay marriage and the poor are interconnected. It’s like how some people see a divide from social justice (i.e helping the poor) and abortion; they are all a part of social justice.