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johnnyjones
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I agree.
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Rich_Olszewski
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I see you and I differ.
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Alan55
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Sorry, I didn’t read back over the past several pages. I think that Romney is a decent and intelligent man, and his charitable giving is admirable. There’s ample evidence of all these things, which I readily acknowledge. The issue for me is his economic policies, including his tax policies, which I believe would end up continuing Republican policies that have transferred wealth to the top 1% income bracket over the past few decades. There’s lots of evidence that reducing taxes does not result in the kind of economic growth and job creation that Romney (like Bush I and Bush II) has promised and that serves to increase the deficit.
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Ridgerunner
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Ah! Two good “rites of passage” missed. Oh well, we can’t have them all. But while being the “Guy who walks out with the singer” is a massive ego-feeder for a young man, and while Southern Belles of a certain class and ancestry are TRAINED to feed young mens’ egos, one does recognize that there is an artificiality to all of that, just as there is with the Gatsby world.
I eventually got good sense and married a Yankee who put herself through nursing school by her own labor. Certain realities are better for some people than for others. I’ll admit that my wife closely resembled Sophia Loren and still does. I never did figure that out, because she’s 100% Alsatian; the German-speaking ones. Roman settlements along the Rhine, maybe? Settlement of partially Turkic Avars in Alsace by Charlemagne maybe? There has to be a historical explanation. I really should have her do one of those DNA tests that tell you those ancient origins. The grandkids might be interested to know.
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Jeffrey
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mary_bobo
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As old as I am, I find it hard to think that so many of our fellow citizens are so gullible, nay, dumb. I like to think better of people than that.
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CMatt25
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Yet there are Catholics on this forum who have posted or told me they have determined voting for Obama is in line with Catholic teaching. I understand not everyone voting in this thread’s poll is Catholic but I have to assume some are and it has been running 16 - 18% for Obama. There’s another thread with a Pew poll showing only 51% of weekly Mass goers support Romney. 42% Obama which is much more than this thread’s poll. And the rest I guess undecided or with a 3rd party or not voting. So obviously according to Pew
the majority of practicing Catholics are now with the Republicans. Which is a reason why I have often said I find the Catholic Church moving more Republican. But only 51%. Not a large majority.
So is it left to the individual to determine their proportionate reasons?
Also to my dear practicing Catholic friends who have expressed support for Obama. You know I am totally with you on voting in this election. But how do you respond when the “non negotiables” are tossed at you by your fellow Catholics?
I’m trying desperately to understand the 21st century practicing Catholic’s voting psyche.
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Jeanne_S
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Go to you tube,type in Samual L Jackson,Campaign for Obama.If that foul,vile video isn’t enough to make you cringe,you are seriously in denial
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Rockie01
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Why do people insist on entering non-sense on this site? If you are Catholic or on a Catholic website, then you should not be surprised at the very fact that Obama does not fit the bill as an option. He is pro abortion, pro gay marriage, and a true christian cannot/should not vote for him. Healthcare? Really? If you buy those lies, you are a sell-out. I agree with Abyssinia:
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Dawnia
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Oh come on…a conspiracy is way more fun.
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epan
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Just listen to him. It is not a stretch. I base my opinions on what he says.
I have met many dodo birds who were very successful in business, and in the military. Two of my friends lost their hands to .50 calibre fire, due to an incompetent idiot of a colonel. This man also tried to call a danger close air strike which would have seriously endangered us. His XO refused the order. Our Gunny refused the order. He tried to call the strike himself, but was unable to get the order right. I thought that the XO was going to try to relieve him. Instead Gn Mattis himself flew in and relieved him of his command in the middle of combat. But guess what? He now has two stars. He could run for president, and he probably would win compared to the two candidates that are running now. He would be a general and a war hero.
So far, Mr Romney has shown that a rich kid can make more money. Whoop whoop. GW Bush the master of worldwide and domestic disaster is rich too. The 99 percent which includes everyone commenting on this forum confuse intelligence with hanging on to the family wealth. Not the same.
Every presidential candidate would have you believe that he grew up in a log cabin and invented himself as a patriot. Mitt would have us believe that he eschewed his family wealth and chose to beg on the streets until he could manage to scrape his first nickel in savings to make his first billion. It is all PR that his supporters love to swallow.
On paper I am probably middle class. Sue me and you get nothing, even with judgement against me. I can file bankruptcy with zero consequence, except that my creditors are screwed. But the next day, I can buy a house or a car, or whatever I want. But none of it would be in my name. So, I could truthfully run for president and say that I am poor. That is the American system.
To get my vote, Mitt needs to open his mouth and say something intelligent for a change. He needs to show that he understand history and diplomacy. He needs to show that he actually has read the newspaper today. He needs to show that he understands that Republican fiscal and taxation policy have lead to disaster. He needs to show that he understands that diplomacy is an alternative to sabre rattling. He needs to show that he has a rudimentary understanding of economics. He needs to release his tax returns to show that he is not using loopholes or questionable methods to avoid paying his fair share in taxes. He needs to show that he can tell the difference between when it is appropriate to criticize a sitting president who is dealing with complex matters which he does not understand, and when he should shut his mouth and support the sitting president.
It is appalling, that he would open his mouth in ignorance to criticize Mr Obama doing his job in this complex world over issues he does not understand. He could not, because he is not in the intel loop. So far, he is acting like Jane Fonda, in terms of his patriotism. NO. Mitt’s personal greed is not more important than the welfare of our country. He would have us believe by his actions that it is. I rankle at the lack of his sense of propriety as citizen, and at his sense of entitlement just because he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
I could go on. But he has a long list of failures, just as a candidate.
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SuperLuigi
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What this argument boils down to is the Just War Criteria.
War is permissible in certain circumstances, and WWII was a rare fit.
Not too many people are called to martyrs, it seems.
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SuperLuigi
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A good start would be to think about your vote.
Ask:
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Why am I, Matt, voting for Obama when he is telling my Church what to do, and openly supports abortion and for now, so-called “gay marriage”. *
If it is to impress other people or to feel and look good, those are selfish motives and God can see right through it.
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Personanongrata
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REALITY CHECK**** A woman can still get an abortion in both states. Defunding PP does not stop abortion. And defunding PP ONLY affects poor women. The rich can still secure abortion any time they want one.
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Holly3278
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We might not be capable of that in and of ourselves but all things are possible with God.
When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
(Matthew 19:25-26 RSV-CE)
Take a look at the chapter for greater context.
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Luigi_Daniele
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REALITY CHECK.
- It is much better than doing nothing. Who cares what the bank accounts of the families of the saved babies contain?
- It is much, much, much better than the Democrat Party Platform of abortion at any stage of pregnancy for any reason
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BroomWagon
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REALITY CHECK*** African American women are 5 Times more likely to get an abortion than a white woman. This means though African Americans are 13% of the population, 1 out of every 3 abortions involves an African American.
REALITY CHECK*** Planned Parenthood by far is the biggest abortion provider in the USA and many would say is run as a for-profit enterprise as far as abortion is concerned.
- Undercover investigations show Planned Parenthood recommend 90+% of all women are advised to get an abortion.
- Fact: 83% of Planned Parenthood clinics are in MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS!
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Ridgerunner
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While I understand you are firm in your position, you still appear to be asking for a sincere answer. So here’s mine, even though I’m not sure there is any such thing as a unitary “Catholic voting psyche” in this country.
I don’t really believe this Pew result. Might be right, but I have sincere doubts.
While Obama did get something like 52% or 54% of the “Catholic vote” in 2008, that was skewed by Hispanics. Among white voters, Obama was something like 46%. Pew asks a lot of me to ask me to believe there has been a shift of only 3 or 4%, given that Obama’s track record on abortion and homosexual “marriage” are widely known. Hispanics may have abortions, but their culture isn’t favorable toward it, and Hispanic culture (at least among Mexican-Americans which are most of the Hispanics I know) abhors homosexuality. That’s particularly true among Mexican-American males. Hispanics vary a lot. Mexicans are, by and large, extremely entrepreneurial in instinct and far less inclined to be tax-friendly toward the government than most whites. Someday I believe the majority of them will belong to the right wing of the Republican party, once they get enough money in their wallets. They’re very big on sharing with family, but not much with anyone else, and certainly not with the government. Most Mexican-Americans I know think the government is a gaggle of saps. They’ll take what it offers for now, but disdain it otherwise. While many Hispanics currently have something to gain from government largesse, not all do, and I expect at least some shift among at least Mexican-Americans this time around. We’ll see.
The Catholics who have come to firmly identify Catholicism with an ideological political liberalism they strongly favor will probably stay with Obama and the Democrats. Probably their numbers are no greater than that of Americans generally; perhaps 25-30%.
Catholics have abortions about as much as anyone else, and some of them, particularly parents and boyfriends of the girl involved, have a psychological stake in insisting to themselves that “well it’s too bad it has to be, but it’s not all that big a moral issue”
Some women who have had abortions will change their views, but I do not expect their involved “facilitators” to do so. Too much guilt with that, and this country is not at all inclined to accept guilt for anything.
Many, many, many Catholics vote Democrat because all of their ancestors were Democrats, their ethnic group origins were always Democrat and/or their neighborhood is solidly Democrat. I do expect some shift in this group, though I don’t know how much. For whatever reason, among the third-generation “ethnic” group members I know, the Irish are the most intractable in this regard. I’m mostly Irish and was a Democrat operative myself for years and years, and I think I understand why Irish are the most stubbornly Democratic. You drank it with your mother’s milk, in a way others didn’t. You identified Republicans with the Masons and the nativists and “no Irish need apply” and even the Black and Tans your grandmother told you about. But at a point, I just couldn’t stand indirectly supporting abortion anymore. I didn’t become a Repub. But I vote almost exclusively for them because their opponents are almost always abortion supporters, and I can’t bring myself to support it with them. I’m not sure how many of such people will finally have all they want of it. But some will. Not to make too much of ethnicism because nearly all European “ethnics” are third generation at least. But some were just never part of the 'ethnic struggle" that identified with the Democrat party in the same way the Irish were. We’ll see how it turns out.
And, you were expecting this, of course, there is no “proportionate reason” to support abortion in this election. There is no authoritative person in the Church, e.g., a bishop who says there is, and many, including many bishops, who say there isn’t.
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Personanongrata
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BroomWagon
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Where is the outrage for 33% of all abortions being performed against 13% of the population? That is.
Sure, if whites are 66% or whatever of the US population, that is an outrage too but you seemed to be arguing for choice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood
Everyone knows this.
So in other words, the government in funding planned parenthood targets minority people, we agree on something.
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