Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

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Carlan said:
Well, what do you think? Do you believe all Republican minded Catholics contribute to 10-% of their bottom line in support of those less fortunate? or even 5 %.?
I notice there were no comments about all the generous giving to personal charity to help the needs of the less fortunate in our country, Or are you of the mind that," by God I pulled myself up by my boot straps, let the rest you bums do the same", You know , the 47%!. Where is the compassion in the the far right GOP position. Show me RLG! Peace, Carlan
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I have no idea what people give, but your question has assumptions built in. I would assume that those of us who believe in charity give charitably. Why would I assume anything else? Should I do the same thing and ask if pro-bloated-bureaucratic-government supporters pay the government 10% of their income on top of their normal tax rate, since that is the form of “charity” they believe in? Oh wait…they don’t believe in taxing their own money…just “the rich.”

I’m not play your game.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Before you accuse me of stereotyping, marginalizing and dismissing others, perhaps you should re-read the political threads on this site and see how anyone who dares to disagree with the majority opinion is described.

I have stated my opinion. I have not asked that anyone else agree, although I do admit to being surprised by the defensiveness of the responses.
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That’s a nice “other people do it” defense. I don’t usually let my kids get away with that, but feel free. You are welcome to be as stereotyping, marginalizing and dismissive as you like. 👍
 
Carlan said:
Well, what do you think? Do you believe all Republican minded Catholics contribute to 10-% of their bottom line in support of those less fortunate? or even 5 %.?
I notice there were no comments about all the generous giving to personal charity to help the needs of the less fortunate in our country, Or are you of the mind that," by God I pulled myself up by my boot straps, let the rest you bums do the same", You know , the 47%!. Where is the compassion in the the far right GOP position. Show me RLG! Peace, Carlan
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I do not know specifically of republican catholics but Chronicle of Philanthropy did a survey of tax data and found red states donate moreto charity than blue states

Professor at Syracuse University, Arthur Brooks wrote a book called ‘Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism’ in which the data showed
  • Although liberal families’ incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
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– Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.
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– Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.
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– Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.
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– In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.
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– People who reject the idea that “government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality” give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.
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Brooks demonstrates a correlation between charitable behavior and “the values that lie beneath” liberal and conservative labels. Two influences on charitable behavior are religion and attitudes about the proper role of government.
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Carlan said:
Do you believe all Republican minded Catholics contribute to 10-% of their bottom line in support of those less fortunate? or even 5 %.?
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Why is it your business, or your place, to even wonder so skeptically and negatively about that? Do you also wonder the same about “Democrat-minded Catholics?”

I don’t claim to have facts about the giving habits of registered Republicans, as a group. I do know a lot about the giving habits of some registered Democrats who can afford to give. Proportionally speaking (anecdotally only, although I believe there has been some research to back this up, if not this very year), givers to the less fortunate are lopsidedly Jewish (among those Democrats who are religiously affiliated).

I’m quite sure that wealthy Democrats ***(like wealthy Republicans) ***number among the generous givers to charitable causes. Among those a rung down on the wealth ladder, I think no one on this thread has private information (not speculation) about whether Democrats or Republicans in the upper-middle-class (non super-wealthy) segment give more. To speculate is rather uncharitable – as a reminder to those beating the “charity” drum ad nauseam.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Why is it your business, or your place, to even wonder so skeptically and negatively about that? Do you also wonder the same about “Democrat-minded Catholics?”

I don’t claim to have facts about the giving habits of registered Republicans, as a group. I do know a lot about the giving habits of some registered Democrats who can afford to give. Proportionally speaking (anecdotally only, although I believe there has been some research to back this up, if not this very year), givers to the less fortunate are lopsidedly Jewish (among those Democrats who are religiously affiliated).

I’m quite sure that wealthy Democrats ***(like wealthy Republicans) ***number among the generous givers to charitable causes. Among those a rung down on the wealth ladder, I think no one on this thread has private information (not speculation) about whether Democrats or Republicans in the upper-middle-class (non super-wealthy) segment give more. To speculate is rather uncharitable – as a reminder to those beating the “charity” drum ad nauseam.
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This is typical behavior. I’ve been previously asked about the amount of time I spend on CAF, considering I have five kids, followed up with asking if I work. The uncharitable thoughts of some posters no longer surprise me. They are just lashing out, rather than trying to defend their support for one of the worst presidents in our history.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Before you accuse me of stereotyping, marginalizing and dismissing others, perhaps you should re-read the political threads on this site and see how anyone who dares to disagree with the majority opinion is described.
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I accuse Stephen Colbert, as you paraphrased him, of that. If you agree with his stereotyping of your fellow men and women, it would be up to you to discern whether you support his unfounded judgmentalism (unfounded because he did not validate that opinion with facts, but merely surmised and condemned).

I was addressing your post, not all
Seeker1961 said:
the political threads on this site.
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To defend a position based on generalizations about the tone of some others is not a defense but an excuse, i.m.o.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I accuse Stephen Colbert, as you paraphrased him, of that. If you agree with his stereotyping of your fellow men and women, it would be up to you to discern whether you support his unfounded judgmentalism (unfounded because he did not validate that opinion with facts, but merely surmised and condemned).

I was addressing your post, not all

To defend a position based on generalizations about the tone of some others is not a defense but an excuse, i.m.o.
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I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted and once again, with feeling…it is AN OPINION. Feel free to disagree and move on with your day. Why you feel the need to get defensive is beyond me.
 
Seeker1961 said:
I am aware that it is more comfortable for me to be around with people who believe as I do. I understand my own tendency to feel positive about opinions that agree with the ones I have already formed. I’m here, so it’s obvious that I don’t spend my entire life in a bubble, but I’m not arrogant enough to believe that I’m totally objective.

However, I did commit the unpardonable sin of not using the word “many”…I have been duly corrected.
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👍
 
rlg94086 said:
Of course you were thinking that. Why wouldn’t you?
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Many times here I’ve had a Catholic Republican or someone who votes Republican think I and others believe when we vote for a government role that it relieves us of any individual charity. I haven’t exactly seen a mob of Catholic Republicans come running to our defense or saying our personal charity is no one’s business. :rolleyes:
 
Al_Moritz said:
Precisely. The tax vs. charity argument is another questionable argument. I believe that for a large part it is supported unthinkingly by conservative Christians to justify any corrupt, corporatist, inhuman and unjust stance that the Republican party stands for, just because it is the “pro-life party”. Talk about contortionist mental gymnastics.

I support the subsidiarity principle of the Catholic Church. Yet too often it seems degraded into, and misused as, cheap political argument.
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Amen brother
 
CMatt25 said:
Many times here I’ve had a Catholic Republican or someone who votes Republican think I and others believe when we vote for a government role that it relieves us of any individual charity. I haven’t exactly seen a mob of Catholic Republicans come running to our defense or saying our personal charity is no one’s business. :rolleyes:
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Yep. That’s because you’ve used the bulk of your time on CAF defending bloated, bureaucratic government over charitable giving and accusing conservatives of not caring for the poor. 🤷

Now, that said, the posters shouldn’t assume that you don’t give charitably. I certainly don’t assume that about Christians. Does everyone give 5-10%? Of course not. Does everyone tell the truth? Of course not. Assuming the people you are discussing charity/taxation with don’t give charitably is like assuming they are lying.
 
Carlan said:
To get over the debacle of fighting two wars on credit,The lost emplyment of the Bush years will likely take at least the next twelve years for recovery.** I hope Obama is able to continue on with his policies for another four years followed up by a Hillary Clinton with another eight. **Unemployment has had a marked improvement in the past two years and it is still moving forward in spite of what you want to believe. Peace, Carlan
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Let’s see, Carlan - 12 more years of Democrats = 15,600,000 abortions. That is roughly equivalent to the population of the Netherlands. And you justify that how?

Ishii
 
Al_Moritz said:
Precisely. The tax vs. charity argument is another questionable argument. I believe that for a large part it is supported unthinkingly by conservative Christians to justify any corrupt, corporatist, inhuman and unjust stance that the Republican party stands for, just because it is the “pro-life party”. Talk about contortionist mental gymnastics.

I support the subsidiarity principle of the Catholic Church. Yet too often it seems degraded into, and misused as, cheap political argument.
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Oh, Class Warffare, well, if Obama is such a friend of the working man why doesn’t he stand up to his Union buddies and say jobs should be available from Boeing in South Carolina?

blog.heritage.org/2011/10/31/pelosi-south-carolina-boeing-plant-should-unionize-or-shut-down/

Calling someone “Corporatist” etc. may sound good but perhaps you are the one using contortionist mental gymnastics!

All of this is just tribal, people justify the Democrat party which has turned way way left but please spare us the degrading of others because your own position is untenable.

Obama is a big Union buddy who in a lot of cases just ride on the backs of Taxpayers and hurt the economy.

Let alone, the failure of Government motors shows Obama is as Corporatist as anyone.
 
ishii said:
Let’s see, Carlan - 12 more years of Democrats = 15,600,000 abortions. That is roughly equivalent to the population of the Netherlands. And you justify that how?

Ishii
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Hi Ishii, instead of just asking the same question, maybe you need to read the proportionate reasons of those Catholics voting for Obama. Sure you might not agree nor they with you. But even Burke, often quoted by Catholic Republicans on CAF, said while it is difficult for him personally to imagine the proportionate reason, “What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life?”

Burke: “That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience.”

Clearly Ishii, for both Catholics voting for Romney and Catholics voting for Obama, their consciences have answered. Peace.

lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/sep/04090703
 
CMatt25 said:
Hi Ishii, instead of just asking the same question, maybe you need to read the proportionate reasons of those Catholics voting for Obama. Sure you might not agree nor they with you. But even Burke, often quoted by Catholic Republicans on CAF, said while it is difficult for him personally to imagine the proportionate reason, “What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life?”

Burke: “That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/sep/04090703
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I already asked that question. You agreed that even eliminating poverty in the US is not a proportionate reason to allow the killing of millions of innocent humans. Remember?

That said, what proportionate reason do you think there is for supporting the right of people to kill innocent humans?
 
ishii said:
Let’s see, Carlan - 12 more years of Democrats = 15,600,000 abortions. That is roughly equivalent to the population of the Netherlands. And you justify that how?

Ishii
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We should be praying for the mother and father lining up out side the abortion mill waiting to destroy their innocent babe, and Doctor and nurses who perform the unspeakable murders.As well as politicians who promote bad law ,both democrat and GOP, God is always waiting beside them convicting them with his actual grace, while they walk in with their minds closed to Him
.We thank him for all those who do repent finally and seek reconciliation,.
Talk from all of us is so cheap, better to spend time praying in front of the mills and on your knees in the presence of the Holy Sacrament!
Peace, Carlan
 
rlg94086 said:
I already asked that question. You agreed that even eliminating poverty in the US is not a proportionate reason to allow the killing of millions of innocent humans. Remember?

That said, what proportionate reason do you think there is for supporting the right of people to kill innocent humans?
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I agreed your question held no weight. Because there will always be at least one poor person on earth and thus poverty will never be totally eliminated. Therefore I would not support the killing of millions of Jewish American adults as the alternative. I also agreed abortion will never be totally eliminated on this earth regardless of who the POTUS is, regardless of Roe, regardless of what one state would then do vs another. Al actually explained it better to you than I though. Peace.
 
 
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