Obama won Catholic vote, regular churchgoers chose Romney [CC]

[7_Sorrows]

Should all Catholics vote for Democrats because they say they’ll take care of the poor? Will that make God happy?

who says Republicans will NOT take care of the poor? i think republicans are getting a bad rap. the republicans are not against helping the poor - they just don’t want the system abused is how i see it.

 

[Tigg]

A woman can be the most progressive most bra-burning zealot ever, but an abortion will change her life forever. And probably drive her into psychological counseling.

Yes, thank God…for the majority, killing, even without having to look into the eyes or see the personhood, is not an easy thing to do. What is most heartbreaking is the healing of guilt and regret and those women who went thru the psychological process of giving a name to their dead babies and then tearfully passing them along to Jesus.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Should all Catholics vote for Democrats because they say they’ll take care of the poor? Will that make God happy?

The Democrats only pay lip service to the poor. If they were really concerned about the poor, they would have negotiated a budget agreement to ensure that the social welfare programs that the claim so much about would continue to remain.

 

[wavejim]

The abortions don’t stop in the USA. They go to all the world through the United Nations, heavily funded by the American Government. Abortions are happening in Latin America, in Africa, in Asia, promoted by UN agencies.

Where I live poverty is rampant, yet few would think of aborting, besides here abortion is a crime punished by law. A poor has a tomorrow… and aborted baby’s life is terminated.

Here we have 70% of our population living with less than 3 dollars a day, yet young couples get married and become parents. Think about Jesus and Mary: how much did Joseph earn a day? What were their belongings? Did Jesus go to school? Did He have health insurance, a dentist, a doctor? Did He ask King Herod to care for the poor, or did He ask us to do it?

Why in the name of God, when planet Earth has reached its highest technological development, man has fallen so low in his moral values? My ancestors lived in colonial USA and never ever expected George Washington to hand them food or housing. This unhealthy philosophy was born almost 100 years ago with the apparition of communism in Russia. The Virgin of Fatima (paraphrasing) said that Russia would pour out her woes (communism, death) on the world and now it has permeated into the American Society.

Living in a Third World country and having experienced Russia’s woes, Marxism (call it socialism, communism, etc.), and having seen Cuba, Chile, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Uganda and others fall under the spell of communism, I was sure the USA had no need to trip over the same stone. But the saying goes that fools extend their hand to the snake to see if it really bites. Animals can’t learn experience from other animals because they can’t communicate, but man can learn experience from another man, and we tell you, the snake bites! Believe us, don’t be fools, don’t extend your hand to the snake!

I really don’t understand how Americans of good will can’t see that liberal politicians that sell you social programs (they will continue to create more and more programs, it’s never ending), are really buying your precious freedom and keeping poor from getting out of poverty. My offer is, if Cuba is just 90 miles away… why don’t socialist imitate Cubans who want to live in the USA and build rafts and swim the other way, to Cuba, to the socialists paradise of the Americas? Go there and experience that paradise before bringing its lies to the USA. Go, it’s just 90 miles away from Key West. Have a nice trip.

What you said. Should the Church continue to promote the “social justice” programs at the expense of loosing its religious liberty? The poor need to see the shining light of hope from the Church and not the federal government.

 

[Lapey]

The individual conscience can doubt any man, including Obama. What seems to be going on is some want to restrict the doubting of one candidate, or party.

But you only seem to doubt one and acuse others of only doubting Obama. I doubt both, just Obama more. Waaayyyy more.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But you only seem to doubt one and acuse others of only doubting Obama. I doubt both, just Obama more. Waaayyyy more.

I doubt them both and see a status quo, no matter who would’ve won the election.

 

[Lapey]

The murder happens because of some mothers not wanting to have babies after conceiving. Church has no jurisdiction over the state or its laws but is only known to voice its dissent against particular repressive laws directed against the church. Not defining a Penal law against mothers who choose to abort their own babies does NOT amount to partaking in the wrong of abortion. How can the Church or any institution force a state to penalise mothers who abort their own babies? Church can only excommunicate a Catholic who performs abortion or aborts her own child.

You have a very twisted way of discussing these issues. You are not of the US, so you have no fight here. If you believe God is the reason for the glow in Obama’s face, then this illustrates the twisted view of reality.

Is the baby in the womb a life? Is the life human? Is human life sacred? How does this differ from laws against murder? The only difference is the human life in the womb has no one who speak for him/her. I will, and again you can speak for the selfishness of the mother, the law maker, and the voter who votes in the president who has shown that he will increase abortion by his record, not by others words.

 

[Lormar]

The Democrats only pay lip service to the poor. If they were really concerned about the poor, they would have negotiated a budget agreement to ensure that the social welfare programs that the claim so much about would continue to remain.

From a few years of personal experience, I can tell you that you are correct.

 

[Al_Moritz]

The exception is 'Intrinsic Evils"; ALWAYS and everytime a Mortal sin

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.

'THOU SHALL NOT KILL" as God’s Command is NOT a secret.

God Bless,
Pat

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

Note how the text you quote speaks of formal cooperation. Yet voting for a pro-abortion candidate can be allowed under certain circumstances in which it amounts to mere remote material cooperation:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9980046&postcount=772

 

[Lapey]

I doubt them both and see a status quo, no matter who would’ve won the election.

This is where we would have to agree to disagree. In this election there wasa clear choice, not a perfect pro-life choice with a viable chance to win, I agree. But a definite choice was there. Obama is openly and proven to be a pro-abortion on demmand leader. Romney’s stance, although not perfect, is plainly less evil than the president.

You will see the affect of our vote soon with the retiremnt of Ruth B G. Now there is no chance to replace her with a pro-life judge. At least with Romney there was that chance; sadly now there is no hope in this appointment being the one that flips the court…

 

[Lapey]

Note how the text you quote speaks of formal cooperation. Yet voting for a pro-abortion candidate can be allowed under certain circumstances in which it amounts to mere remote material cooperation:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9980046&postcount=772

Doesn’t fit if one obstinately objects to conforming to Church doctrine; our decisions have consequences, simple as that.

 

[JackyB]

The abortions don’t stop in the USA. They go to all the world through the United Nations, heavily funded by the American Government. Abortions are happening in Latin America, in Africa, in Asia, promoted by UN agencies.

Where I live poverty is rampant, yet few would think of aborting, besides here abortion is a crime punished by law. A poor has a tomorrow… and aborted baby’s life is terminated.

Here we have 70% of our population living with less than 3 dollars a day, yet young couples get married and become parents. Think about Jesus and Mary: how much did Joseph earn a day? What were their belongings? Did Jesus go to school? Did He have health insurance, a dentist, a doctor? Did He ask King Herod to care for the poor, or did He ask us to do it?

Why in the name of God, when planet Earth has reached its highest technological development, man has fallen so low in his moral values? My ancestors lived in colonial USA and never ever expected George Washington to hand them food or housing. This unhealthy philosophy was born almost 100 years ago with the apparition of communism in Russia. The Virgin of Fatima (paraphrasing) said that Russia would pour out her woes (communism, death) on the world and now it has permeated into the American Society.

Living in a Third World country and having experienced Russia’s woes, Marxism (call it socialism, communism, etc.), and having seen Cuba, Chile, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Uganda and others fall under the spell of communism, I was sure the USA had no need to trip over the same stone. But the saying goes that fools extend their hand to the snake to see if it really bites. Animals can’t learn experience from other animals because they can’t communicate, but man can learn experience from another man, and we tell you, the snake bites! Believe us, don’t be fools, don’t extend your hand to the snake!

I really don’t understand how Americans of good will can’t see that liberal politicians that sell you social programs (they will continue to create more and more programs, it’s never ending), are really buying your precious freedom and keeping poor from getting out of poverty. My offer is, if Cuba is just 90 miles away… why don’t socialist imitate Cubans who want to live in the USA and build rafts and swim the other way, to Cuba, to the socialists paradise of the Americas? Go there and experience that paradise before bringing its lies to the USA. Go, it’s just 90 miles away from Key West. Have a nice trip.

Good post but unless you have lived in a third world country you cannot grasp just how well the liberals have indoctrinated people into believing that without them and their social policies life is not worth living, should you happen to be one of the lucky ones born that is. I was deeply saddened seeing how many Caholics voted for Obama.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Good post but unless you have lived in a third world country you cannot grasp just how well the liberals have indoctrinated people into believing that without them and their social policies life is not worth living, should you happen to be one of the lucky ones born that is. I was deeply saddened seeing how many Caholics voted for Obama.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

This is where we would have to agree to disagree. In this election there wasa clear choice, not a perfect pro-life choice with a viable chance to win, I agree. But a definite choice was there. Obama is openly and proven to be a pro-abortion on demmand leader. Romney’s stance, although not perfect, is plainly less evil than the president.

You will see the affect of our vote soon with the retiremnt of Ruth B G. Now there is no chance to replace her with a pro-life judge. At least with Romney there was that chance; sadly now there is no hope in this appointment being the one that flips the court…

Does God judge us on a curve?

As for justices, we saw a large majority appointed by republicans while Bush served his 8 years, 2 of which was with a republican controlled house, and senate. The count then was 7 appointed by republicans and 2 appointed by democrats.

Again, either way appears to be more of the status quo.

 

[BroomWagon]

Good post but unless you have lived in a third world country you cannot grasp just how well the liberals have indoctrinated people into believing that without them and their social policies life is not worth living, should you happen to be one of the lucky ones born that is. I was deeply saddened seeing how many Caholics voted for Obama.

This is a good point, though the flow has slowed down, picture coming to America from El Salvador. Sure, with all the government assistance, you’d be voting for the Democrats. You may not have even had running water where you grew up.

 

[John1956]

Banning abortion will make people revert back to extremely unsafe abortions.

Have you noticed that abortion is most extremely unsafe for the unborn human being, even in the modern abortion chamber?

 

[Holly3278]

Unfortunately there are a lot of Catholics out there who are not practicing Catholics. This is one more reason why the New Evangelization is needed so much.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have 15 questions for Obama voters. They are not intended to be post mortem for either side; I simply want to know why so many supported Obama because I frankly do not understand your point of view.

1.President Obama spent about $1.3 Trillion each year in deficit, adding about $5 Trillion to the national debt during his term. He offered no leadership to reduce spending and ignored the recommendations of his own Simpson-Bowles commission. Is this level of deficit spending and Obama’s indifference to it okay with you?
2.Clearly, the president lied when he said everyone/anyone could keep their former health coverage under ObamaCare. The increased requirements for coverage require all who buy insurance to alter their coverage and the existence of a ‘rationing panel’ for Medicare assure that health coverage will change for seniors as well. Is this slight-of-hand by President Obama okay with you?
3.At last count, ObamaCare has about 15 new taxes in it, all timed to begin after the 2012 election. Is that okay with you?
4.Likewise, the president lied about the attack on our Benghazi consulate by spreading the story that a spontaneous mob was involved when the earliest reports said otherwise. The Administration’s story was so consistent that it had to be the product of the president’s own decision to obfuscate. Was his misleading of the American people okay with you?
5.There had been a similar incidence of White House cover-up earlier, when the gun-running project known as Fast and Furious was under investigation. President Obama prevented Congress from obtaining the facts surrounding this horrendously misguided activity by claiming executive privilege after Atty General Holder had exhausted his attempts to hide the truth. Was this cover-up okay with you?
6.Conversely, the Administration readily leaked classified details of the Bin Laden raid, including the name of our operative in Pakistan who is now doing a 30 year jail term for helping us. Seal Team operational methods were also released, all in an effort to create favorable publicity for the Administration’s single foreign policy achievement by making a film about the event. Future special operations of this type are thus put in jeopardy. Is this okay with you?
7.Notwithstanding clear and repeated warnings from several government agencies that both Social Security and Medicare are in dire financial straits, President Obama made no attempt to restructure either program to preserve it. Was this avoidance of a major fiscal issue okay with you?
8.The Obama Administration refused to enforce existing laws regarding immigration and attempted to stop the state of Arizona from dealing with its significant illegal immigration problem that included the murder of a rancher by illegal immigrants… Was the Administration’s action okay with you?
9.President Obama advocates even higher taxes for the wealthy even though the resulting revenue is miniscule. Such tax policy rewards those who take from the public treasury and penalizes those who work hard and earn more. Is that okay with you?
10.Faced with Lockheed-Martin’s need to deliver 60 day layoff notices under the Warren Act just prior to the election, the Obama Administration directed L-M not to do so and promised that the government would cover any cost of failing to comply with the law. This to remove negative news just before the election. Was this violation of the law alright with you?
11.In his initial trip abroad as president, Obama bowed to several foreign heads of state and issued apologies for America ’s behavior? Was this alright with you? What did Americans have to apologize for?
12.In his now-famous aside, President Obama told Russian President Medvedev that he’d (Obama) “have more flexibility after the election.” This apparently referred to the reduction of nuclear weapons the Administration is pursuing with Russia . But regardless of the issue, is it okay for our president to conspire with another nation for something that would be perceived negatively at election time?
13.The Obama Administration sought to grant waivers to the Welfare program’s work requirement passed during the Clinton Administration in spite of the fact that the enacting legislation did not empower the granting of waivers. Do you approve of this flaunting of the law?
14.The restructuring of GM engineered by the Administration ignored the interests of GM shareholders who would normally have first claim on any settlement and granted a sizable share of GM stock to the UAW, which normally would have no standing at all in such a matter. This was an obvious reward to a strong political contributor. Was this okay with you?
15.Secretary of State Hilleary Clinton endorsed the International Arms Control treaty in August 2011. As I understand it, this treaty makes US citizens subject to international law and supersedes the Second Amendment rights Americans now enjoy. Is this subjugation of US law to international law acceptable to you?

I’ve tried hard to stick to facts and believe I’ve done so. I thank you in advance for your response.

good questions!! let’s see if you get any answers!

 

[JackyB]

This is a good point, though the flow has slowed down, picture coming to America from El Salvador. Sure, with all the government assistance, you’d be voting for the Democrats. You may not have even had running water where you grew up.

Governments should be providing running water, and fortunately I did just not always hot though. However, I have always worked for my money and believe me some positions were most distasteful but it put food on the table. I believe in assistance to help one get back on your feet not a lifestyle as I believe for many it has become.

 

[tskrobacz]

Should all Catholics vote for Democrats because they say they’ll take care of the poor? Will that make God happy?

It is not our job to make God “happy”…God is love and God is good and God is delighted with his creation. Our job is to bring love to the world, to all people regardless of race, religion, gender, etc. Indeed there are good, God-loving democrats and republicans. Neither party and no belief system has a stronghold on our loving God (although that is precisely what most of the worlds religions teach).

We are not waiting for Jesus to return to earth on a cloud of glory. God is waiting (patiently) for us (all) to return ourselves as the glory of God.