Obama won Catholic vote, regular churchgoers chose Romney [CC]

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Pitcharan said:
It is up them who have the mandate to legislate. If you have suggestions, talk to your senator.

Laws of yesteryears may not hold good now. We change with times. I am not aware of any democracy where abortion within a certain period is a criminal offence today.
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There are several countries in Central/South America and the Caribbean where abortion remains illegal. That is also true for other parts of the Third World. Problem is: it doesn’t work very well, because for one thing, women who want to abort have several modern means available to them which are difficult to control via legislation, for another, the culture in the medical profession (education, training, patient-centered philosophy of care) tends to support those women in their decision.

So I am encouraged by that article I saw mentioned some pages back in this thread, of the pro-life “cultural change” strategy. After all, isn’t cultural change part of what accompanied the spread of Christianity? Unlike some, I am very optimistic that we have a good message which can attract people in large numbers - what we need is a modern marketing plan and a comprehensive approach.
 
SeekingHisMercy said:
Again, I will point out that my remarks have nothing to do with fundamentalism or the Fundamentalist movement. I would challenge you to pick up the Scriptures and the Catechism and show me where I’ve erred. I will absolutely submit to the authority and teaching of the Church and will be happy to apologize where any of my remarks have gone against the Church.

The fullness of what God has revealed about Truth resides in the teaching of the Catholic Church and anything outside of that teaching which shows the beauty and truth of God will not contradict that teaching.

I have responded to your previous posts regarding President Obama & abortion and the Church’s stance against abortion, as well as the other points you’ve made. We are called to give a reason for the hope in Christ that we have as Catholics.

I would again challenge you to support your arguments with something from Scripture, Church teaching, or the early fathers of the Church. If you can’t find anything in those, I would ask you to give serious thought and consideration to examining your beliefs with the mind of the Church and conforming in the areas where those views are not in line with the Church.
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I can’t help but commend the spirit of this post and your way with words and your courtesy, as they say my hat is off to you. I strive to follow this example of kindness and clarity.
 
seekerz said:
There are several countries in Central/South America and the Caribbean where abortion remains illegal. That is also true for other parts of the Third World. Problem is: it doesn’t work very well, because for one thing, women who want to abort have several modern means available to them which are difficult to control via legislation, for another, the culture in the medical profession (education, training, patient-centered philosophy of care) tends to support those women in their decision.

So I am encouraged by that article I saw mentioned some pages back in this thread, of the pro-life “cultural change” strategy. After all, isn’t cultural change part of what accompanied the spread of Christianity? Unlike some, I am very optimistic that we have a good message which can attract people in large numbers - what we need is a modern marketing plan and a comprehensive approach.
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Cultural change = conversion of hearts and minds. 👍
 
seekerz said:
So I am encouraged by that article I saw mentioned some pages back in this thread, of the pro-life “cultural change” strategy. After all, isn’t cultural change part of what accompanied the spread of Christianity? Unlike some, I am very optimistic that we have a good message which can attract people in large numbers - what we need is a modern marketing plan and a comprehensive approach.
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I will not oppose collective wisdom that decriminalizes ‘abortion’ but I am too glad to welcome and even propagate a strategy that dissuades women from aborting their babies. I would love to dedicate much energy for the cause and will try and access the article you saw. Could you give more details please?
 
BroomWagon said:
I can’t help but commend the spirit of this post and your way with words and your courtesy, as they say my hat is off to you. I strive to follow this example of kindness and clarity.
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Response of a true Christian spirit kindled by another equally true. 👍👍👍

I confess my failure to kindle such a spirit in any of you and apologise for it .
 
Pitcharan said:
Response of a true Christian spirit kindled by another equally true. 👍👍👍

I confess my failure to kindle such a spirit in any of you and apologise for it .
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I think most of us have had quite a week. I have much to account for and am really touched by your humility. Hang in there and keep on truckin. You’re in my prayers and if you wouldn’t mind sending one up for me, I’d be grateful. Thanks.
 
SeekingHisMercy said:
I think most of us have had quite a week. I have much to account for and am really touched by your humility. Hang in there and keep on truckin. You’re in my prayers and if you wouldn’t mind sending one up for me, I’d be grateful. Thanks.
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Your prayer request is most edifying and I gladly respond with grateful joy and love. Praise the Lord oh my soul. all my inmost being bless His Holy Name!!!
 
Pitcharan said:
I will not oppose collective wisdom that decriminalizes ‘abortion’ but I am too glad to welcome and even propagate a strategy that dissuades women from aborting their babies. I would love to dedicate much energy for the cause and will try and access the article you saw. Could you give more details please?
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Here is the article provided by Abyssinia in this post.
 
SeekingHisMercy said:
Again, I will point out that my remarks have nothing to do with fundamentalism or the Fundamentalist movement. I would challenge you to pick up the Scriptures and the Catechism and show me where I’ve erred. I will absolutely submit to the authority and teaching of the Church and will be happy to apologize where any of my remarks have gone against the Church.

The fullness of what God has revealed about Truth resides in the teaching of the Catholic Church and anything outside of that teaching which shows the beauty and truth of God will not contradict that teaching.

I have responded to your previous posts regarding President Obama & abortion and the Church’s stance against abortion, as well as the other points you’ve made. We are called to give a reason for the hope in Christ that we have as Catholics.

I would again challenge you to support your arguments with something from Scripture, Church teaching, or the early fathers of the Church. If you can’t find anything in those, I would ask you to give serious thought and consideration to examining your beliefs with the mind of the Church and conforming in the areas where those views are not in line with the Church.
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We are the Church (the mystical body of Christ), there is no other. I respect your need to rely on the authority for the institutional Church for your own faith formation. Remember, when 2 or more are gathered in his name, we have Church (Matt). 🙂
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Cultural change = conversion of hearts and minds. 👍
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You make an exceptionally good point. We, as Catholics, must change hearts and minds first and foremost. If we succeed, many will decline abortion despite it’s legal status.
 
DLG123 said:
Is giving away free phones and increasing the welfare and food stamp roles this important to you? That is creating a permanent under class that will have a constant erroding work ethic and diminished skill sets which will make it harder and harder to get jobs. In other words they will become slaves to the government handouts and in particular their democratic masters who are more than willing to bankrupt our country to give it to them. I am no replublican apologist as they have been the problem as well. But their is a difference in hitting a brick wall at 40 mph and 100 mph one you can survive the other… Not so muc. This debt is going to crush our children and their children. The higher taxes WILL errode the amount of money coming into the Churches, your coffers will dry up and eventually become unable to help those and who need our help.

DLG
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That’s rubbish. I know there are those that abuse the system, however, not all of us that need assistance are lazy. I have a very strong work eithic, unfortunately, I’m 25 years old and sick. On top of that, for the last 4 years of my illness the doctors can’t find a specific diagnosis to label me as, so I can’t even get disablity anymore. Yet, I deal with weakness, fatigue, dehydration on a daily basis. My gull bladder works at 4%, I’ve had pancreatitis multiple times, and acute kidney failure. I’m now allergic to just about everything most people eat, when I wasn’t allergic to anything before. … I went back to school to get a better job while trying to regain my health. I can barely handle school, although I make good grades, but I can only go part time because of what little energy I have, and Romney is saying that if I can’t afford to pay for my education, I’m not going. Well, that would leave me dependent on my parents for a lot longer. THAT is why I voted for Obama. I need Obamacare, and I need my grant money for groceries, since my diet is different from the rest of my family, they can’t afford two grocery bills, nor can they afford to send my to school. …And when I became too sick to work, BOTH of my jobs I had at the time left me on the payroll, unfortunately that was 2 years ago, and both of those jobs are 3 hours away from where I live with my parents. I have done the best I could do, I am very responsible, and very conservative in my view. I understand not supporting abortion, but if the poor are not educated, and there is already a high number of unemployed, and we get our assistance taken away from us, where do you think this country is going to go? -DOWN! …I bet abortions will skyrocket if Romney got his way with governmental assistance being cut because not only would abortions still be legal in this democratic nation, but the poor would not be able to feed their children if they weren’t getting assistance. Just look back in history to see how the poor really lived and how wide spread the middle class way, almost non existant and nowhere near comfortable as what our country is used to. …Crime rate would certainly rise, and this country would be seeing a lot more havoc than it is now.
 
NessFrancis said:
I know there are those that abuse the system, however, not all of us that need assistance are lazy.
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The idea that people voted Obama just to get things is as untrue as it is commonly held. It’s what I will coin the “Megyn Kelly theory” (bless her heart): things people say to make themselves feel better when their ideology does not gel with reality.
 
NessFrancis said:
That’s rubbish. I know there are those that abuse the system, however, not all of us that need assistance are lazy. I have a very strong work eithic, unfortunately, I’m 25 years old and sick. On top of that, for the last 4 years of my illness the doctors can’t find a specific diagnosis to label me as, so I can’t even get disablity anymore. Yet, I deal with weakness, fatigue, dehydration on a daily basis. My gull bladder works at 4%, I’ve had pancreatitis multiple times, and acute kidney failure. I’m now allergic to just about everything most people eat, when I wasn’t allergic to anything before. … I went back to school to get a better job while trying to regain my health. I can barely handle school, although I make good grades, but I can only go part time because of what little energy I have, and Romney is saying that if I can’t afford to pay for my education, I’m not going. Well, that would leave me dependent on my parents for a lot longer. THAT is why I voted for Obama. I need Obamacare, and I need my grant money for groceries, since my diet is different from the rest of my family, they can’t afford two grocery bills, nor can they afford to send my to school. …And when I became too sick to work, BOTH of my jobs I had at the time left me on the payroll, unfortunately that was 2 years ago, and both of those jobs are 3 hours away from where I live with my parents. I have done the best I could do, I am very responsible, and very conservative in my view. I understand not supporting abortion, but if the poor are not educated, and there is already a high number of unemployed, and we get our assistance taken away from us, where do you think this country is going to go? -DOWN! …I bet abortions will skyrocket if Romney got his way with governmental assistance being cut because not only would abortions still be legal in this democratic nation, but the poor would not be able to feed their children if they weren’t getting assistance. Just look back in history to see how the poor really lived and how wide spread the middle class way, almost non existant and nowhere near comfortable as what our country is used to. …Crime rate would certainly rise, and this country would be seeing a lot more havoc than it is now.
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You have a reason for food stamps and you want to actually work. There are those who fraud the system that don’t want to work. There;s a difference. What about buying Health Insurance? Unless you are way below the poverty line, I am pretty sure the Individual Mandate could pertain to you and mostly anyone else. I’ll pray for you.
 
I am way below the poverty line. I have no income, only grant money, which goes to groceries and medical bills. I have debt up the wazoo that I haven’t paid in 4 years.
 
Received this in an e-mail today (with no link) and wanted to pass it along…very good thoughts - be encouraged!
Regardless of whether you are rejoicing or weeping over the election results, here are 10 THOUGHTS which I hope will bring some hope and perspective.
  1. **The just shall still live by faith. **The political situation of
    Jesus’s day was probably far worse than we have it today, and yet it
    didn’t keep Jesus from fulfilling God’s calling for His life. He
    came to love and set people free. The fields are still white unto
    harvest.(John 4:35). May we pray, as Jesus taught, that God would
    send more laborers into His field. (Matthew 9:37,38)
  2. God is still on His throne and God is the one who sovereignly
    appoints and deposes rulers.     (Daniel 2:21) God has His reasons, and
    causes all things to work for the good of those who love Him (Romans
    8:28). Even if Satan does intend something for evil, God still
    intends it for good (Genesis 50:20). Throughout history, many godly
    men and women went through hard times and yet fulfilled God’s
    calling for their lives (Joseph, Daniel, Jeremiah, etc.)
  3. Our citizenship is in Heaven. (Philippians 3:20) Our whole life on
    earth is but a split second compared to eternity. Our future is
    secure.
  4. We are to pray for our rulers and pay them honor and obedience as
    best we can, but if ever the time comes, we must obey God rather
    than men.     (Acts 4:18-20)
  5. **As a hospice chaplain I often see this, that the worst things in
    life physically often turn out to be the best spiritually. **If this
    world continues to get darker, as I think the Bible clearly says it
    will (Matthew 24), then the light of Christ in us will shine even
    brighter by way of contrast. We just keep on loving and serving
    others in the name of Jesus. May our hearts not grow cold. (Matthew
    24:12)
  6. Don’t let the things of this world rob you of your joy in Christ.
    Remember, our future is bright! Our names are written in Heaven!
    This earth is passing away. A million years from now, it won’t
    matter a whole lot whether it was a Republican or Democrat who got
    elected! Jesus will returning riding a white horse, not an elephant
    or a donkey.
  7. **Read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation, chapters 2 &
    3. **There are some strong warnings to believers to be overcomers, not
    in some political sense, but in faith, purity, perseverance, etc.
    Especially note Revelation 3:10 where it talks about the trials
    coming upon the whole world to “test those on the earth.” May we be
    counted worthy to escape this coming "test."
  8. Here in America, we have become very materialistic, yet we are told
    not to love this world, that to love the world is hatred toward God
    and friendship with the world makes us an enemy of God.     (I John
    2:15, James 4:4). Those are sobering words but true. Are our sorrows
    (or joys) over the election based on how it may affect us
    financially? Or, is our focus on advancing God’s Kingdom? Is our
    security and faith in the Lord or in the government? In hard times,
    people are more receptive to hearing the good news of the gospel.
  9. From a worldly point of view, we do live in scary times. The whole
    world could easily plunge into economic and/or political collapse,
    and WWIII could easily occur at any time. Therefore, Paul says we
    are to “set” our hearts and minds on “things above,” NOT on the
    things of this world.     (Colossians 3:1,2).
  10. Lastly, God loves you and wishes to rejoice over you with singing.
    Those words, found in Zephaniah 3:17, were written to a people who
    were living in hard times, and yet God saw them, loved them and
    wanted to shout for joy over them. As we see how much He loves us,
    may we love Him in return. Our greatest sorrow in Heaven will not be
    because of who won, or didn’t win, some political election. Our
    greatest sorrow in Heaven, I believe, will be when we realize how
    much He loved us and how little we loved Him in return. No election
    can give or take that away from us. It is a choice we make day by
    day, to walk in the light of His love.
May you walk in the joy of the Lord today. Our King still reigns!
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seekerz said:
The idea that people voted Obama just to get things is as untrue as it is commonly held. It’s what I will coin the “Megyn Kelly theory” (bless her heart): things people say to make themselves feel better when their ideology does not gel with reality.
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I find your comment a little off the mark since Obama himself, in a Chicago speech from his community organizing days, stated he saw the poor as a majority coalition which could give him political gain.

dailycaller.com/2012/09/24/full-audio-of-1998-redistribution-speech-obama-saw-welfare-recipients-as-majority-coalition/
 
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