Obama's day: National Prayer Breakfast

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Who is Obama to lecture us on getting on our high horses?

He has been on his high horse since before he was elected in 2008.

Why is he comparing what ISIS is doing in the 21st century to the Crusades which happenened 800 or 900 years ago? I guess he only has 2 years to go so he will continue to lecture us on how bad we are because we all know he is smarter than the rest of us so we should be thankful that he can put us in our place. :rolleyes:
 
I am not 100% sure President Obama is making a moral equivalence but the article still has some interesting things to say.
President Obama, at the National Prayer Breakfast this morning, said:
Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.
This is banal.

The problem with all such high-horse declarations by Obama is his continual omission of historical context and, in this case, his conflation of the frequent with the rare. The Crusades began in 1095, almost a millennium ago; the Inquisition in 1478, now over 500 years past. When the president says “people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” he should remember that all religions at the time committed terrible deeds that shock the modern sense of morality — given the savage wars between Christendom and Islam, and the religious purifications and civil discord common to all the religious factional strife that played out, violently, in accord with the ethos of the times.

Slavery was outlawed in the U.S. in 1865. Jim Crow ended officially a half-century ago. Indentured servitude, however, continues, almost exclusively among some Islamic groups in the Middle East and Africa. The caste system and ethnic and religious tribalism that institutionalized discrimination and second-class status, quite akin to Jim Crow, persist in places in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. I doubt today whether a Jew of any nationality would be allowed to immigrate and buy real estate in too many corners of the Islamic Middle East. Outside of the West, women and homosexuals are often treated no differently than in the Seventh Century.

In fact, Christian countries were the first to legally end the age-old human sin of the slave trade, and the first to outlaw slavery’s continuance. The president, is fond of historical sloppiness and moral equivalence (cf. the Cairo Speech). But what is the point of citing sins of 1,000, 500, 150, or 50 years ago, without acknowledging 1) that such pathologies still continue today outside the West, especially in the world of Islam, and 2) that Christianity had a unique role in ending these wrongs?

So the question for the president is, why does such medieval violence persist to a much greater degree among so many Islamic extremists in the present world than among most zealots of other religions? (This is an empirical statement. Cf., for instance, the nature of recent global terror attacks in resources such as the Global Terrorism Database). And why search the distant past for examples of moral equivalence, unless the present does not offer suitable data?

Did Churchill point to the excesses of Oliver Cromwell, or did Daladier to the French Revolution, to remind their contemporaries that National Socialism in Germany was not doing anything differently in the 1930s than had their own countries in the distant past? Those of the 1930s who sought to make such facile comparisons between their own past and Germany’s present were written off as appeasers.

Areas of Central and Latin America are as poor as the Middle East, but Christian liberation theologists, unlike the Islamic State, are not beheading and burning prisoners alive to advance their redistributionist cause. Chinese imperialists and colonialists have absorbed Tibet, but the Dalai Lama is not sending suicide bombers into China. The children of East Prussians expelled from 1945-47 are not suiting up with suicide vests to attack Poles. Impoverished Hindu extremists, angry at centuries of British colonialism, do not hijack planes and ram them into high-rises in British cities. Jews are not blowing up cartoonists and satirists in Paris and Germany who deny or caricature the Holocaust.

No one has easy answers to the dilemma of contemporary violent Islamism; for brief interludes in the recent past, secular ideologies were more likely than radical Islam to be the expressed popular driving forces in the violent Middle East (e.g., fascism [1930s], Communism [1940s], Baathism and Pan-Arabism [1950s], which produced the Grand Mufti, Nasser, the Assads, Arafat, Saddam, and Qaddafi). The president and his advisers should be investigating why radical Islam is currently terrorizing the globe, rather than denying it entirely, hiding it by euphemisms, or excusing it by citing morally equivalent examples from the past.

nationalreview.com/corner/397992/still-more-president-obamas-moral-equivalence-victor-davis-hanson
 
What context? In the 400 year run of the inquisition there were aprox 4,000 people killed-all of whom received a trial and none who were executed by the Church. the Crusades were a valid reaction against Muslim invasion. There is absolutely no comparison and no moral equivalence between them and Islamic terrorism. Why cant he bring himself to criticize them without falling back on the “everybody did it” canard? What possible relevance can the events of 500 to a thousand years ago have to burning people alive in cages, cutting off people heads and crucifying children in 2015?
Well, the history behind the Crusades and Inquisition don’t support your assessment.

The Crusades called for by Pope Urban II, had more to do with trying to unify the Byzantines with Rome. In fact, some of the propaganda he used to motivate the first Crusade was based on false information. The Crusaders did in fact commit attrocities, but so did the Muslims.

The Inquisition, especially the Spanish Inquisition probably accounted for about 2500 people being killed, according to today’s apologist. But those are the recorded cases which the Church has and were opened to historians by St Pope John Paul II back in the 1990’s when he opened the Vatican archives up.

But evil isn’t measured in the arithmetic of body count.

There were evils committed in the Inquisition by those who had the power to enforce their will.

Heck, even St Teresa of Avila was called before the Spanish Inquisition and she feared it.

But the point President Obama was making had to do with the fact that throughout history, humans have used their religion as a basis for committing atrocities.

It doesn’t blur the atrocities we see being committed by ISIS or Al Qaeda. But it provides context in human terms.

Listen to the words the President Obama spoke rather than putting your political ideology into them.

Jim
 
Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.
I believe the intention of these words is to soften the physical and spiritual armor of Christians.

He has plans.

Be vigilant.
Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power.
Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil.
For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.
Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground.
So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate
and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.
In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all [the] flaming arrows of the evil one.
And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Ephesians 6:10-17
 
Well, the history behind the Crusades and Inquisition don’t support your assessment.

The Crusades called for by Pope Urban II, had more to do with trying to unify the Byzantines with Rome. In fact, some of the propaganda he used to motivate the first Crusade was based on false information. The Crusaders did in fact commit attrocities, but so did the Muslims.

The Inquisition, especially the Spanish Inquisition probably accounted for about 2500 people being killed, according to today’s apologist. But those are the recorded cases which the Church has and were opened to historians by St Pope John Paul II back in the 1990’s when he opened the Vatican archives up.

But evil isn’t measured in the arithmetic of body count.

There were evils committed in the Inquisition by those who had the power to enforce their will.

Heck, even St Teresa of Avila was called before the Spanish Inquisition and she feared it.

But the point President Obama was making had to do with the fact that throughout history, humans have used their religion as a basis for committing atrocities.

It doesn’t blur the atrocities we see being committed by ISIS or Al Qaeda. But it provides context in human terms.

Listen to the words the President Obama spoke rather than putting your political ideology into them.

Jim
I did listen-he made a moral equivalence that is false. Your take, like his, on the crusades and the inquisition is born not of history but centuries of anti-catholic rewriting of History.

Again what possible reason could he have to bring up these up other than try to make excuses for ISIS-in effect “Christians(especially Catholics) were just as bad.”
 
I did listen-he made a moral equivalence that is false. Your take, like his, on the crusades and the inquisition is born not of history but centuries of anti-catholic rewriting of History.

Again what possible reason could he have to bring up these up other than try to make excuses for ISIS-in effect “Christians(especially Catholics) were just as bad.”
He only made the moral equivalence in that people who commit atrocities in the name of God, are wrong.

Sorry this upsets you. :rolleyes:

Jim
 
I haven’t watched or read O’s speech from this morning.However,I have to ask…when is he going to address the obvious fact that ISIS are Muslim terrorists killing in the name of Allah!Rhetorical questionBTY:cool:
NEVER! This small, bitter man attended the prayer breakfast merely to trash Christianity and declare a moral equivalency between killers of “terrorist” (read Muslim) stripes and followers of Christ. What a wanton, worthless creep! Is it possible that America could have dredged up a more contemptible man to send to the White House? No. :mad:
 
Just seen on Fox, Obama says Christians killed in the name of God. Cites Crusades. :eek:
He is right, and we need another one.
What he doesn’t seem to understand - like all too many liberals, is just war theory.
 
And you believe what he said was not accurate ?

Jim
Not necessary. Not appropriate. Odd. Bringing up sins of THAT many years ago as part of some equivalency that, what (?) … excuses ISIS? Stirs up class warfare and old trespasses at a Prayer Breakfast?

St. Francis complaining about the excesses of some of the Crusaders, when it was going on, was one thing. Barack Obama’s effete scolding comes off as more self-serving than sincere.

With the world coming apart at the seams and him in charge … the Crusades makes it to the top of his in basket just in time to shame the patrons of a prayer breakfast? He’s just 700 years behind the times. On his watch as defender of the free world Christians are the ones being persecuted in Iraq, Syria, and in Africa … and his silence is deafening. BUT …

We “get it” Barack. Catholic Church - bad. America - bad. You - good. :rolleyes:

And this is the kind of leadership sure to make the world better real soon. :banghead:

On the bright side, picturing Obama at a Prayer Breakfast may help teach schoolchildren more easily add “non-sequitur” to their vocabularies.

Maybe his anti-Catholic misbehavior should have been expected. When he spoke at Catholic Georgetown U. in 2012 he had the White House staff request that symbols referring to the Holy Name of Jesus be covered up for his speech.

cnsnews.com/news/article/georgetown-says-it-covered-over-name-jesus-comply-white-house-request-0

Georgetown Says It Covered Over Name Of Jesus
To Comply With White House Request
May 7, 2012 - 5:18 PM
(CNSNews.com) - Georgetown University says it covered over the monogram “IHS”–symbolizing the name of Jesus Christ—because it was inscribed on a pediment on the stage where President Obama spoke at the university on Tuesday and the White House had asked Georgetown to cover up all signs and symbols there.
http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0904r.jpghttp://www.traditio.com/comment/com0904s.jpg

BEFOREAFTER (No IHS, no Cross)
 
The President’s comments were simply a political speech. That they were made at a time of prayer is something that he should be ashamed of, if he is a Christian.

The President’s words have had the effect of blurring the atrocities committed by ISIS and al Qa’eda in the minds of Middle Eastern Mohammedans. Whether or not that was the intent, only he can say. It doesn’t matter what his intent was, just the effect of his words. And his words very clearly drew parallels between the Crusades and the activities of ISIS and Al-Qa’eda. These words speak VERY loudly to Mohammedans everywhere, since the end of the first World War. Perhaps his goal was, as you said, to provide context in human terms. If so, he missed the mark. He incited commentary among his opponents here (which increases support from his base), and among the general population in the Middle East. I can see the headlines now. His words today, in sound byte format, scored him political points. The President is, or should be, capable of predicting what will be made into a sound byte. I think that was his actual goal. The phrase “high horse” is used to elicit a strong reaction.

While evil isn’t solely measured by body count, body count is certainly a measure of evil. (Six million Jews ring any bells?) Body count is a perfectly legitimate measure of evil for some purposes, for example, when looking at unprovoked or unjust aggression.

Do you mean the Pope Urban II called for the Crusaders principally to unify Byzantium with Rome under one rule, or do you mean that the Crusaders did that on their own, without permission from Pope Urban. The first time I read it, I thought you were saying that the reason for that particular Crusade was to unify the two. Upon reading it a few more times, it seems like you chose your words to state the later, but imply the former. Propaganda has a negative connotation. Atrocities, negative word. All about the crusades.
humans have used their religion as a basis for committing atrocities
True, as far as it goes. But you imply that the crusades were atrocities, and the inquisition was an atrocity. You, and the President, liken them both to what is going on now. And it is wrong to make that correlation. And here is why.

Any atrocities committed during the Crusades and the Inquisitions were done IN SPITE OF CHRIST’S TEACHING. The atrocities committed by ISIS and Al-Qaeda are in keeping with Islam. The President knows these things, or should know them, since he is the President and claims to be a Christian.
 
He was presenting context with regards to those who commit acts of violence in the name of their religion.

Before you get on your high-horse, take a look back at history.

Jim
Okay, Jim, I read the whole transcript, and the high horse comments still don’t make a lick of sense to me. Hopefully you can help me piece it all together. I’m trying to understand where this lesson in humility angle is coming from. You don’t just give a lesson in humility unless you think people need one. So who needs one?

He talks about people “not being so full of yourself and so confident that you are right and that God speaks only to us, and doesn’t speak to others, that God only cares about us and doesn’t care about others.” If holding that belief is a widespread problem, I must be living in a different universe. The idea that God cares about and speaks to everyone is unquestionably basic to every flavor of Christianity, everyone from the the most progressive theologies to the literal fundamentalists will tell you this.

Please help, it’s really not making sense. At least, not in a good way.
 
Okay, Jim, I read the whole transcript, and the high horse comments still don’t make a lick of sense to me. Hopefully you can help me piece it all together. I’m trying to understand where this lesson in humility angle is coming from. You don’t just give a lesson in humility unless you think people need one. So who needs one?

He talks about people “not being so full of yourself and so confident that you are right and that God speaks only to us, and doesn’t speak to others, that God only cares about us and doesn’t care about others.” If holding that belief is a widespread problem, I must be living in a different universe. The idea that God cares about and speaks to everyone is unquestionably basic to every flavor of Christianity, everyone from the the most progressive theologies to the literal fundamentalists will tell you this.

Please help, it’s really not making sense. At least, not in a good way.
Perhaps he was implicating the U.K. House of Commons for deciding that the human embryo is a fine sand box for the neighbor kids to play in?

Does anyone notice that conceiving children to dissect them for body parts (in the “Holy” name of the God, “Science”) is a modern atrocity on par with the ISIS atrocities?

You have noticed? So, sign the petition:
corethics.org/index.php/2015/02/05/sign-petition/
 
What Obama said sounds like something many Liberals parrot and what one might hear in Reverend Wright’s church.
 
Barack Hussein Obama enjoys getting under people’s skin and creating controversy. He knows just what to say in order to do this.

It was a political speech at a prayer breakfast which just shows it was all about Obama as he usually makes everything.
 
I’d like to share the following article. I think it paints a more realistic picture of the Crusades than is presented in most circles today. I have to say, too, that this is pretty much what I learned about the Crusades and what led up to them when I was in grade school in the early '60s.

Four Myths About the Crusades

firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1483
  • Patty
 
I hear silence about the Siege of Maarat, no-one has the history wrong about the Crusades. Frankly I think the moral equivalence is much closer than the delusional idea you would get on this thread of what factually happened.

You want to minimize the claims of widespread cannibalism displayed by the Crusaders?

We will just have to disagree on that point and you can be allowed the skittle lane thinking.
 
I’d like to share the following article. I think it paints a more realistic picture of the Crusades than is presented in most circles today. I have to say, too, that this is pretty much what I learned about the Crusades and what led up to them when I was in grade school in the early '60s.

Four Myths About the Crusades

firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1483
  • Patty
Myth 3 seems to be true and not a myth in the case of the Fourth Crusade.
 
He only made the moral equivalence in that people who commit atrocities in the name of God, are wrong.

Sorry this upsets you. :rolleyes:

Jim
Me too, I don’t see the need to defend the atrocities. Further I think connecting Islamic ideology to Isis is a long way from where we were last week, Islam realizes they created a monster and its coming back to kill their own teachers and masters. It took them a long time to admit this too.
 
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