Absolutely not. The difference between you and I is that the nonexistence of free will doesn’t concern me in the slightest. Which brings us back around to the point: Since free will is illusory, God really doesn’t have an excuse for a lackluster universe.
So did you have the free will to write the above post, or was it a deterministic result of the basic laws of physics?
I would say it’s the latter, though there may be some uncertainty due to quantum effects.
So it appears that you believe that you have no effect on what happens in your life. Your choices are meaningless, because they aren’t really your choices. I guess that’s where you were coming from originally.
Well said.
The Catechism teaches that God made His universe “in statu viae”, in a state of journeying to perfection. It’s a process, of the divine Potter molding His creation, not without it’s cooperation, into the finished product He has in mind, as we come, over time, to agree and align ourselves with His flawless will. Our justice would be complete as we freely come to fulfill the greatest commandments: to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. I like a quote from St Basil:
You are at a disadvantage to understand where Christians are coming from. We know that the human will is weakened by original sin. You don’t have this belief, but have you noticed that sometimes you do what you really don’t want to do? Then there are times when you want to do then you don’t do. This shows a weakness in our wills effected by our lack of moral strength, and the influence of our uncontrolable passions. Sometimes under the influence of this weakness we actually punish ourselves, not God but then in our ignorance we blame Him. You portray God, and perhaps we do too, as a dominating God, not a compassionate understanding God If we do we do by accident, but I think we have portrayed Him as a loving God. No matter of argument is capable of giving you the faith, and we know it too, although in our desire to help you understand, we try Holiness is a gift from God, it is His Holy Spirit at work in us, we don’t make ourselves holy. Co-operating with the grace of God means to go against our self-will, our self-love, our pride, and our ignorance, in order to prove our love and desire for God, to be found worthy of Him and His love. We grow in holiness by doing His Will, we strive as Christians to unite our wills with His, to become one with Him, and that means a lot of dying to our selves, a lot of self-sacrifice. Thats not always easy, and we rely on Him to sustain us with His faith, hope, and love. His redemptive grace, Amazing Grace. When you receive it you will find answers to your questions, and understand what others have been trying to tell you. Until that time you may remain an atheist and agnostic, not knowing and hating God.
I don’t consider myself an atheist or an agnostic, though I have tendencies to think that some of their arguments are logical.
I would, especially if those conditions could lead to eternal damnation.
None of the conditions lead to eternal damnation. It is our choices, and only our choices, the lead to damnation. God has guaranteed that sufficient graces are available to all can make the choices necessary to get to heaven
I believe you may be missing one or more messages in the story of Adam and Eve. Do you think any of us would do substantially differently? Our free will makes us susceptible to the temptation to think we are smarter than God, and decide on our own what is good and evil.
Since God is perfect and makes no mistakes, there can be no starting over.
It is pretty clear to me that most who question God do so because they didn’t, and don’t, get things their way.
You are playing semantics. “Choices” vs. “Conditions”. The conditions lead to the choices. They are inseparable.
Our will is always free to go against what the conditions might suggest. We are not automatons. Our choices are not predetermined. It is not semantics. Choice and condition have clearly different meanings. Conditions influence choices. It is only weakness of will that allows conditions to determine choices.
Where does Genesis say they were naïve? They had clear directions as to what was acceptable and what was not.
On what evidence do you presume this? Where is it stated the most are being damned?
Our choices are not predetermined - to us…BUT GOD KNOWS WHAT OUR CHOICES WILL BE BEFORE WE DO! He already knows our life, and our fate!
The basic message of Adam/Eve is that they freely chose to trust in something God created (the fruit and/or Satan) rather than Himself. They knew God intimately in the garden. They walked with God. They had knowledge and intellect, and abilities far beyond ours. Nonetheless, they were tempted to be like God, but without God involved.
Say, for example, you have an extremely wealthy grandfather. He’s got billions and billions. And he wants all of his grandchildren to share in it. You think, that’s terrific, eventually I will inherit a lot.
From the Catechism:
And I would say it’s the grandfather’s mistake that caused this. If he wanted his grandchildren to have the money, he could have left such a provision in his will. Indeed, he probably should have known his son well enough to realize that he’d waste the money to begin with.
I liked the way you describe this and to be honest, it does make better sense to me now.
No thanks required. But I’m delighted that somebody other than myself actually understands what I wrote. That isn’t always the case
