"Obedience"

  • Thread starter Thread starter guiltyofdoubt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
But do we have “Free Will” to be conceived? NO. Of course not…
But, by definition, a creature must first be created for it to have a Will.

To have ‘free will’ prior to conception to ask that for a creature to exist prior to its existence, so it can choose to exist. That is a logical contradiction.

So why bring it up at all, what point are you trying to make with that statement?
 
From the Catechism:

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
“Can” is not “will”.

I see this trotted out too much and too soon too often. It’s used too freely and does more harm than good. It’s primary purpose was to address catechists and catechumens entering the Church but who died prior to their incorporation into the Church.

There is a lot of foundation which must be laid before this paragraph should even be considered mentioning because it can be too easily misconstrued as a “get out of jail free card” and an excuse to “ignore” the Gospel for whatever it is they want to believe.
 
“Can” is not “will”.

I see this trotted out too much and too soon too often. It’s used too freely and does more harm than good. It’s primary purpose was to address catechists and catechumens entering the Church but who died prior to their incorporation into the Church.

There is a lot of foundation which must be laid before this paragraph should even be considered mentioning because it can be too easily misconstrued as a “get out of jail free card” and an excuse to “ignore” the Gospel for whatever it is they want to believe.
I too try to clarify this point. Sometimes people (inadvertently) make it sem easier to attain Heaven if one is not Catholic than if one is, when the reverse is true.
 
And I would say it’s the grandfather’s mistake that caused this. If he wanted his grandchildren to have the money, he could have left such a provision in his will. Indeed, he probably should have known his son well enough to realize that he’d waste the money to begin with.
The father could have lost all the money in a way that was not his fault, too. What makes the grandchildren any better than anyone else? What have they done to deserve their family’s wealth? What is “unfair” about being in the same situation as most everyone else in one’s society?

And consider this scenario: the grandfather makes a fortune, which he leaves to his son on the condition that his son get a college degree in business, so he can properly manage the money or the company. The son refuses to do so.

Is it unjust for the grandfather to give the money to charity or a third cousin twice removed instead?
 
Oh…I’ll finish.

I compare it to having Multiple Personality Disorder.

There are questions and thoughts I pose on this board that I don’t in real life…mainly out of embarrassment.

But the answers I get from you hardline Catholics reflect indoctrination very well. They don’t answer my questions, or even make me feel like I will ever find in MY HEART the answers you all apparently have in your hearts.

To me, its akin to this: If I ask a 5 year old that TRULY BELIEVES in Santa, and all that comes with him, what would happen at Christmas if the child wad bad (misbehaved), then the child would say…AND FULLY BELIEVE…that they would not get gifts from Santa.

Eventually, that child will grow up and question Santa, and from there start doubting.

The difference of course, is that with Religion, the reverse can come to happen. My brain is working on the logic…and indeed the fairness…of it all more and more as I get older.

Part of me wants to TRULY believe, especially as fate brings me closer to death with every passing day, yet certain sin remains attractive…overwhelmingly so. I get that devout Catholics will then advise I say the Hail Mary, or another prayer, or whatever.

The FACT is that God made sex feel good, and I have yet to feel negatively about it, EXCEPT in light of the teachings of Christianity.

Other religions do not necessarily make sexuality such a taboo. Human pleasure is part of life. We all experience life in different ways and have different things that bring us pleasure. But Catholicism (Christianity) teaches there is ONE way…be a robot for God. Be Obedient. Do what He commands. Or you will surely pay FOREVER.

It rings of blackmail. And maybe that’s just the way it is. Maybe that’s truly the way God is, and how He wants it…since as scripture say, our ways are not His ways. I was raised with a much more benevolent ideal of God than what I have garnered from my foray into Catholicism in the last 8 months.

It saddens me that I should feel guilty now, when I never did before, because of what I’ve been taught at RCIA, and in the Church. I guess that’s the way the Church wants it. They tend to say “guilt is what tells you that you are sinning and what you are doing is wrong, and against God”. Well, that guilt didn’t exist BEFORE the Church made me feel guilty.

I am not one to ever say “I know it all”. I am open to possibilities of all sorts. However, that also means I DOUBT possibilities of all sorts, as I don’t know what is truly right. I know what many of you have FAITH in what is right…but I also know that 80% of the planet (roughly) thinks a different way. I guess I keep hoping that I will somehow suddenly get the Faith that you have, and maybe it won’t happen until I finish RCIA. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite for saying “I Believe”, when I have doubts. All I know is that I entered into joining the Catholic Church for an entirely different reason…and was hoping it would clarify some things for me, but in fact I feel clouded in my thoughts than ever.
Sex was created by God with all of it’s pleasures. It is blessed by God when employed in it’s use in marriage. then it is used in the expression of a physical and spiritual love the wife and husband have for each other. The very purpose of this union is an expression of that love in the form of a child. It is a holy union of family. What happened to humanity is that the pleasures were not a means to a an end, ultimate plan of God, but became an end in its self, just for pleasure. This desire for pleasure in itself is contrary to our nature, because our nature is primarily a rational one, we are intelligent creatures, part spirit and part animal, not angels, not animals, but having the properties of both, rationality and animality. That is what a human is by nature and God’s design. When we give into our feelings apart from this rational control we are acting contrary to ourselves, and consequently acting against Gods’ will for our well-being. We become disobedient to Gods’ will for us, and so follows human tragedy, we act irrationally. Without the supernatural help from God, we self-destruct. I see it all the time in broken marriages, in sex crimes, i n murder. A lot crimes of passion, and insanity. When we go against God’s design for us and our well being we self-destruct, even suicide. Human nature is crippled, handicapped by sin (going against God’s will) It is ignorant of the truth especially regarding its spiritual condition, and final destiny, Jesus Christ came to redeem us from the ignorance, and weakness the power our feelings have over our minds, He came to redeem us of our self-love, our self-will and replace it with His love for all of humanity, His creation and to bring us to our final destiny, Himself for all eternity in love and complete happiness. We are in a battle, a spiritual one, against the world, the flesh, and the devil who is very real. Even some religious ignore his existence. Without Jesus,Saviour, God we are lost forever. There is no other Saviour of humanity, we realize this when we receive His saving grace, a gift freely given and paid for by Jesus, sent by our Father, Creator. No one is forced to do the Will of God which is for our own good, not His, He doesn’t need us. We are proud people,and we need help to humble ourselves, and when we are humble we are predisposed to come to Christ and ask His forgiveness and His Spirit, the Spirit of Amazing Grace, then life really begins, otherwise we are regarded as the “walking dead” I admire your honesty, God be with you.
 
I too try to clarify this point. Sometimes people (inadvertently) make it sem easier to attain Heaven if one is not Catholic than if one is, when the reverse is true.
You’d think that the first hint if how that can’t be true follows from Jesus’s own words: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees, you cannot enter the Kingdom of God,” & “be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top