Obeying Allah first then Muhammed!

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Sister Amy:
No need to be so defensive, though.
I have a personal principle on how I should conduct myself in this Forum and thanks to you I’ve just broke it by saying the thing I don’t like to do.
 
Jakasaki: Our friend will probably dispute the Hadith saying that it doesn’t square with the Quran. There’s 1001 ways Muslims can digress and get out of this type of discussion.
 
I’ve not come across any discussion in a text about her religion (and I looked, a while back). She was from the Quraysh but it’s extremely unlikely she was practicing any kind of idolatry after marrying Muhammad (he hated it, even from his childhood, and never participated in it himself.) But there’s no evidence at all that she was Christian or anything else.

Whereas Waraqah was Christian, as you mentioned. But he died soon after, which makes it pretty impossible that he was any kind of source for Muhammad. Because he was dead, and Muhammad couldn’t read.

And as I’ve mentioned before, nobody can provide any sort of proof at all that Muhammad ever studied from a source, that anyone was teaching him, or he was reading anything about Judaism or Christianity. In 23 years with all his family and friends and followers witnessing revelation, none of them EVER saw him refer to any kind of source.

So the claim that Christians rely on here is unfounded and at best, speculative.
It is but a worthwhile speculation nevertheless considering what’s in the Quran that contradicts the Bible. Mohammad could only possibly get his information from his wife, the cousin Waraqa and during his intensive travel around the region while in his service for Khadija. It was a mixture of hearsays and which he incorporated into the Quran thus explaining the errors and the inconsistency.

You would hear lots of discussion during the caravan trips, while on the hashish and black coffee. Mohammad certainly was not very educated but he was smart. He had no problem remembering what he heard and he had a constant adviser in Khadija who was conveniently a bedroom partner. Having travelled extensively according to the standard of his time would expose him more to knowledge that his countrymen might not have. Think about a well travelled tourist of our modern day and how much fairytale he would bring back.
 
Why is anyone being diverted into this conversation about where Muhammad may or may not have gotten his information? This is not relevant to anything. His message is false and insane, and that’s all that matters.

So Muhammad was an illiterate who knew nothing about other religions, even though they were all around him in Arabia and the other places he traveled. And this is evidence that his message is from God, somehow. Ridiculous. Islam is so stupid it takes Muhammad’s own stupidity as the height of virtue. I am willing to agree that Muhammad may have had some advanced knowledge about the world…after all, his religion seems straight out of “1984”. Evil is divine, barbarity is the height of civilization, bondage is freedom, etc.
 
Jakasaki: Our friend will probably dispute the Hadith saying that it doesn’t square with the Quran. There’s 1001 ways Muslims can digress and get out of this type of discussion.
The hadith says pretty much the same thing I did, and backs up what I was saying, showing how FightingFat was incorrect in his assertions about the matter.
 
It is but a worthwhile speculation nevertheless considering what’s in the Quran that contradicts the Bible. Mohammad could only possibly get his information from his wife, the cousin Waraqa and during his intensive travel around the region while in his service for Khadija. It was a mixture of hearsays and which he incorporated into the Quran thus explaining the errors and the inconsistency.

You would hear lots of discussion during the caravan trips, while on the hashish and black coffee. Mohammad certainly was not very educated but he was smart. He had no problem remembering what he heard and he had a constant adviser in Khadija who was conveniently a bedroom partner. Having travelled extensively according to the standard of his time would expose him more to knowledge that his countrymen might not have. Think about a well travelled tourist of our modern day and how much fairytale he would bring back.
So all you have in your defense is more speculation? Really?

Speaking of fairy tales…

A few things I feel obliged to point out are factually inaccurate:

(1) No evidence Khadeejah was Christian or knew anything about it

(2) Muhammad wasn’t known to have “traveled extensively,” either. The best that can be said is he went on some caravans towards the region of Sham.

(3) Waraqa died soon after the beginning of the revelation to Muhammad. The revelation continued for 23 more years.

(4) Khadeejah died some 12 years or so after the prophethood. But yet revelation continued for 10-11 years more after that, until Muhammad’s death.

(5) Most of the passages which comment about Christianity, Christians, Judaism, or Jews, came in the Madani period, after Khadeejah had died.

So let me ask again, if Muhammad was using a source, then how come NOBODY noticed it? Waraqa couldn’t be a source since Muhammad doesn’t seem to have had any contact with him aside from the mentioned occasion, and Khadeejah isn’t known to have known hardly anything at all about the Bible or other religions.

Where did the revelation come from?
 
Why is anyone being diverted into this conversation about where Muhammad may or may not have gotten his information? This is not relevant to anything. His message is false and insane, and that’s all that matters.

So Muhammad was an illiterate who knew nothing about other religions, even though they were all around him in Arabia and the other places he traveled. And this is evidence that his message is from God, somehow. Ridiculous. Islam is so stupid it takes Muhammad’s own stupidity as the height of virtue. I am willing to agree that Muhammad may have had some advanced knowledge about the world…after all, his religion seems straight out of “1984”. Evil is divine, barbarity is the height of civilization, bondage is freedom, etc.
Frankly, you should know better.
 
Frankly, you’re the one who converted to this religion, so I’m not surprised you don’t see it. It’s hard to keep questioning after you’ve thrown your lot in with a particular group. In that, I can definitely relate.
 
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