My intention was not to ask a “loaded” question, but only to establish a premise that would allow legitimate debate to continue. Your admission that a Pope or Bishop may make imprudent decisions nullifies a good many of the responses to my original questions.
SJP, I’m currently reading a book called
Mere Catholicism by Ian Ker. (Emmaus Road)
I’ve just finished the chapter on Infallibility. According to Dr. Ker, yes, popes and bishops can make incorrect decisions, but NOT when it comes to faith and morals. They are guaranteed infallibility by the Holy Spirit when it comes to transmitting the Deposit of Faith to the Church.
But when it comes to practice, of course they can makes errors in judgement.
My question is, why does it matter? These are not issues of faith and morals.
Jesus has NOT guaranteed a perfect “liturgy” because it is not an issue of faith and morals, is it? It can’t be, because the liturgy has changed through the ages.
Dr. Ker also discusses the fact that the Catholic Church is not outside of history, but is part of history and therefore changes its practices with history. He gives the example of a person who does not change their style of dress over the years. Of course, we don’t need to follow the indecent whims of fashion, but it is commendable to try to stay current in dress. A person who walks around wearing the fashions of fifty years ago is considered eccentric.
In the same way, the Catholic Church has changed its practices through the centuries to be appropriate for the times. But this is not the same as changing dogma.
As I have pointed out earlier (on topic, BTW), the various Catholic documents can be used to prove that pretty much anything goes in a Mass as long as the competent territorial authority (bishop) approves.
This, in my opinion, is why there is so much conflict here–people who are not called by the Lord to do so use “the books” to prove their points. They are doing the same thing that we used to do as evangelical Protestants–use the Bible to prove our points–and as we all know, the Protestant church is divided into many hundreds of factions called denominations, and even with denominations, there are factions and more factions.
And this is NOT the way it should be. This is not what the Lord Jesus prayed for His Church in John 17. We should be one.
The Lord has appointed leaders of the Church, and it is THEIR job to keep our Mass what it should be according to God. If they mess up and start propagating an error in the liturgy, the Holy Spirit working in them and others (perhaps us) will eventually bring things back to the way they should be.
We should not fret and debate and cause factions and divisions. We should pray that our bishops will be led by the Spirit.
Certainly we can help out by bringing to the attention of the priests something that we think, according to our limited understanding of the liturgical documents, is consistently incorrect in our local liturgy. And then we need to step back and trust that the priest, the man called by God to the vocation, will correct it. If he does not, then that is between God and him. We should not fret over it. We have done what we can. We should pray instead that we will have perfect reverence for the Lord in our own hearts and that nothing will distract us from Him.
And I think we need to be very careful not to call difference in practice which are acceptable to the Church “errors.” E.g., Marty Haugen music is not an “error” in the liturgy. E.g., using a guitar in Mass is not an “error.” (I demonstrated that from the Vat II documents above.)
It is one thing to bring to the attention of Father a true “error” in the Liturgy (either OF or EF). From what people have posted in various threads on this Board, that seems appropriate for Catholic lay people.
But it is another thing to bring to Father’s attention our personal preferences. For us to say, “Please eliminate the music of the St. Louis Jesuits” from our Mass" is NOT bringing an error to Father’s attention. It is whining about not getting our own way. It is insulting to Father as he and the bishop have made the decision that the music of the St. Louis Jesuits is appropriate for Mass. We as laity have no right to run the Mass. That is Father’s calling.
And I think that THIS is what many of us who are wrongfully labelled “Modernists” are concerned about.
Also, we are concerned about “complaining” in a public forum. Yes, by all means, quietly bring to Father’s attention a possible “error” that has been introduced into the Liturgy.
But bringing these issues to a public forum and going on for many pages about it–how does this glorify God and our Church? It only serves to emphasize that priests are flawed, that our Church is not perfect, and for many people who read these Forums, these things cast doubts into their minds as to whether the Catholic Church is truly the Church of Christ.
We should not give people a reason to turn away from the Catholic Church and keep searching for the True Church.
I think that if we have a question about whether a thing is an error or not, we should privately and discreetly ask others in our immediate circle of Catholic friends and acquaintances who we know to be steadfast and reliable and faithful Catholics. THAT is what the Bible says to do when there is conflict. Together with these people, we should prayerfully consult “the books” and THEN, only after we are convinced that there is an error in the Liturgy, we should go together to Father and ask humbly and respectfully for the error that we perceive is happening to be corrected. And we should be prepared for Father, who is more knowledgeable in these matters than us, to correct us and show us that there is no error at all.
I hope that the words above are wise, not foolish. I am a recent convert and know little.
