OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[why_me]

Not to be a party pooper but more catholics have abortions than mormons. And I am not referring to the fact that there are more catholics in the world than mormons. But catholics are more likely to seek abortions than mormons.

The mormon church does not encourage anyone to have an abortion. It is against abortion and the lds know it. As rebecca would know, the lds in Salt Lake have a wondeful adoption agency for any mormon who does not want to raise their baby. All mormons know that in utah there is this agency available for those that either give their baby up for adoption or for those who wish to adopt. Now that is beautiful.

 

[FCEGM]

You do realize, do you not, that the position of the LDS church in this matter is one of prayerful thought. . .

Yes, I do realize that the LDS position of “prayerful thought” allows for the option of murder. All the prayer and hand-wringing in the world can’t hide that.

Abortion for frivolous issues is a grave sin.

It is also a grave sin when important issues are in the picture.

 

[why_me]

Did I miss something. How did this discussion go from discussing the Trinity to discussing Abortion anyway? On a personal level, it saddens me that a religion that supposedly values family could, in any way, justify abortion. There are even stories of children who were born as a result of abortion and became valuable members of society.

It became a topic because a catholic wanted to sow contention by bringing it up.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I personally don’t think that it is, but I have never been such a victim–have you? I absolutely will not judge the person whom you have so casually judged. I have not been in their shoes, nor have my children nor anyone I know personally.

If you think that understanding God has defined what is right and what is wrong is judging, then I suggest you become an atheist.

God created this world and the plan of salvation knowing full well that humankind were capable of horrible acts. God wants us to love others including the unborn, but He does not force us to do so nor does He force absolutely innocent victims of criminal acts to feel guilty for the crime committed against them. Period. His perfect plan is for every single one of His spirit children.

How is NOT killing an unborn being made to feel guilty for a crime?

Every child who dies goes to the celestial kingdom–heaven–without question. IF the unborn in the first trimester had the spirit within their body, then I would suppose that that child has gone to the celestial kingdom. If the spirit had not yet entered into that body, then God’s plan for His spirit child has not been interrupted at all, BECAUSE HE DID NOT SANCTION THE CONCEPTION OF THAT UNBORN CHILD. HE DID NOT SANCTION THE COMMITTING OF THE CRIME.

God does not sanction any crime. He does not sanction the conception of children conceived outside of marriage. If your church believes it is ok to kill to relieve the suffering of crime, then why is it against euthanasia? Surely, people are suffering and living in horrendous pain because of crimes that have been committed against them. Why don’t we kill them in order to put them out of their misery?

You still did not answer my question?

Is it ok to take a life in order to not suffer?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not to be a party pooper but more catholics have abortions than mormons. And I am not referring to the fact that there are more catholics in the world than mormons. But catholics are more likely to seek abortions than mormons.

The mormon church does not encourage anyone to have an abortion. It is against abortion and the lds know it. As rebecca would know, the lds in Salt Lake have a wondeful adoption agency for any mormon who does not want to raise their baby. All mormons know that in utah there is this agency available for those that either give their baby up for adoption or for those who wish to adopt. Now that is beautiful.

This does not make the LDS church stance on abortion right.

 

[why_me]

Hi Why Me

In the first place, you’re right that I got the date of Faustina’s death wrong. But I still find it far more of a accurate spiritual text than The Book of Mormon. And yes, I do believe she actually did see the visions she clamed in her diary. Also, she went through a whole array of psycological tests, and she passed every one. Also, there may have been people who doubted her in her lifetime, but they came to believe in her after her death, much like St. Therese.

In the second place, my intent with having a copy of the Book of Mormon is similar to that of Fr. Mitch Paqua. He supposedly, in fact, has a copy of the Book of Mormon with several notes inside that discount many of the claims made about it. I would truely like to take a look at his copy for myself.

The Diary is a beautiful book but it is just a little sad because someone so young had such a deep and sad inner life built upon reflections. But outside the diary she was cheerful and goodnatured. Strange…

I have a small handmade statue of saint faustina holding the portrait in her arms. It was made in latin america.

The book of mormon is a book that is not so easily dismissed. Many have tried to prove it wrong or a fraud but all have failed to do so. And this has go one from the very beginning of its publication.

 

[why_me]

This does not make the LDS church stance on abortion right.

The lds church takes a position. It is against abortion and encourages no one to have one. What more is there to say? But facts are facts, catholics are more likely to seek abortions. The lds know their church’s stance and choose the right. Catholics know their church’s stance and quite often choose the wrong. Such is a fact.

 

[Stephen168]

Not to be a party pooper but more catholics have abortions than mormons. And I am not referring to the fact that there are more catholics in the world than mormons. But catholics are more likely to seek abortions than mormons.

You don’t know that; and you’ve already shown yourself to be a liar, so I’ll consider the source.

The mormon church does not encourage anyone to have an abortion. It is against abortion and the lds know it.

President Gordon B. Hinckley in 1998 publicly announced the current position of the LDS Church on Abortion; “While we denounce it, we make allowance in such circumstances as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have serious defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But such instances are rare, and there is only a negligible probability of their occurring. In these circumstances those who face the question are asked to consult with their local ecclesiastical leaders and to pray in great earnestness, receiving a confirmation through prayer before proceeding.” (Exact quote from The Ensign Nov.1998 pg.71 see also The First Presidencies General Handbook of Instructions pages 10-4 & 11-4)

 

[RebeccaJ]

The lds church takes a position. It is against abortion and encourages no one to have one. What more is there to say? But facts are facts, catholics are more likely to seek abortions. The lds know that church’s stance and choose the right. Catholics know their church’s stance and quite often choose the wrong. Such is a fact.

Which proves what whyme? That God wants the unborn killed?

People can choose to go against the teachings of their church. If you want to go down that path, I assure you, mormons are not any more holier than anyone else.

 

[why_me]

You don’t know that; and you’ve already shown yourself to be a liar, so I’ll consider the source.

President Gordon B. Hinckley in 1998 publicly announced the current position of the LDS Church on Abortion; “While we denounce it, we make allowance in such circumstances as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have serious defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But such instances are rare, and there is only a negligible probability of their occurring. In these circumstances those who face the question are asked to consult with their local ecclesiastical leaders and to pray in great earnestness, receiving a confirmation through prayer before proceeding.” (Exact quote from The Ensign Nov.1998 pg.71 see also The First Presidencies General Handbook of Instructions pages 10-4 & 11-4)

My quotation tops your quotation:

Abortion
The official statement from the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) regarding abortion is as follows: "In today’s society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord’s declaration, “Thou shalt not . . . kill, nor do anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services"

—See True to the Faith (2004), 4–5

lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/abortion.html

 

[why_me]

Which proves what whyme? That God wants the unborn killed?

People can choose to go against the teachings of their church. If you want to go down that path, I assure you, mormons are not any more holier than anyone else.

As you know Rebecca the mormon understanding of a preexistence is jut a little different from the catholic understanding. No spirit being will be denied a body. He or she will come to earth regardless. And so, no unborn child is denied a body. But abortion is the last resort under guidance of the local church leaders and prayer in those cases where it can occur.

 

[RebeccaJ]

As you know Rebecca the mormon understanding of a preexistence is jut a little different from the catholic understanding. No spirit being will be denied a body. He or she will come to earth regardless. And so, no unborn child is denied a body. But abortion is the last resort under guidance of the local church leaders and prayer in those cases where it can occur.

It is inconsistent whyme. The lds church says in one breath that life is sacred and cannot be ended. Then faces another direction and says that, ok, nevermind, life is not sacred and GOD WILL TELL YOU THAT IT IS OK TO KILL.

It’s nonsense, regardless of what it is based on.

 

[why_me]

You don’t know that; and you’ve already shown yourself to be a liar, so I’ll consider the source.

Abortion

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=63c139b439c98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____

 

[Stephen168]

My quotation tops your quotation:

Abortion
The official statement from the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) regarding abortion is as follows: "In today’s society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord’s declaration, “Thou shalt not . . . kill, nor do anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services"

—See True to the Faith (2004), 4–5

lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/abortion.html

You quotation matches my quotation: The Mormon Church teaches abortion is OK.

newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/public-issues/abortion

 

[Stephen168]

But abortion is the last resort under guidance of the local church leaders and prayer in those cases where it can occur.

and then Satan gives you the OK to kill

 

[why_me]

and then Satan gives you the OK to kill

With this logic, satan has more catholic hearts than lds hearts since catholics are more likely to seek abortion.

 

[ParkerD]

If you think that understanding God has defined what is right and what is wrong is judging, then I suggest you become an atheist. IN YOUR MIND AND LOGIC, I ALREADY AM.

How is NOT killing an unborn being made to feel guilty for a crime? (Surely you have had enough psychology to understand that a victim in this kind of case will have many thoughts about why they have been the victim of such a crime. Many have guilt feelings, though unjustified. “If only I hadn’t been in that place at that time. If only I were more righteous, God would have protected me.”) You are saying they absolutely must have the baby that was conceived by the criminal act. If they don’t make that choice, then you are saying they are guilty of a crime against God. (Whojumajigger called it a term I think is deplorable to have used in this kind of case.)

God does not sanction any crime. He does not sanction the conception of children conceived outside of marriage. YES, HE DOES. HE ALLOWS FOR REPENTANCE BY THE PARENTS IN THAT CASE.

You still did not answer my question? THE ANSWER WAS AND IS NO.

Is it ok to take a life in order to not suffer?

Not by my standards, no–but I don’t force my standards onto other people.

 

[RebeccaJ]

and then Satan gives you the OK to kill

With this logic, satan has more catholic hearts than lds hearts since catholics are more likely to seek abortion.

Yes, let’s look at the logic:

• asking God who gives you permission to commit a grave sin

to

• an individual who chooses to sin AGAINST GOD

---

100% of mormons being taught that their grave sin is endorsed by God

to

0% of Catholics being taught that their grave sin is endorsed by God

---

Tell me whyme, who is speaking for God?

 

[Stephen168]

With this logic, satan has more catholic hearts than lds hearts since catholics are more likely to seek abortion.

Your Church teaches abortion is OK. Murder can be OK. Polygamy, racism , and now abortion. Things Mormons believe have come from God to their Prophet. Did Christ teach these things?

 

[FCEGM]

Yes, let’s look at the logic:

• asking God who gives you permission to commit a grave sin

to

• an individual who chooses to sin AGAINST GOD

---

100% of mormons being taught that their grave sin is endorsed by God

to

0% of Catholics being taught that their grave sin is endorsed by God

. . .

Which illustrates, Rebecca, whose God is GOD.