OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[sweetnay]

Wow! What a wonderful christian post! Very nice indeed. Luckily, mormons do not write such things about the catholic church on the mormon apologetic board and get away with it.

It’s called “righteous anger” why me-and it’s true. Why would the “holy ghost” say “yeah sure, go ahead and crush your babies head and pull off its arms and legs” REGARDLESS of the situation!! We need to be graphic to convey the horror of abortion to those who think it’s ok (like when their priesthood leader and/or “holy ghost” gives the ok).

 

[dianaiad]

The truth about Mormonism is very sick… Have you ever seen the tortured and brutalized body parts of the Children your church has ripped apart? Sickening just doesn’t quite cut it. I would use words like Horrendous, vile, barbaric, satanic, to describe the Mormon practice of receiving revelation to kill helpless children and then following through on the sacrificial tables of abortionists who day in and day out fill these tables with the blood of the innocent.
You may be a hardened killer zerinus, but to us real Christians you are nothing more than modern child sacrificers.

Huh?

 

[dianaiad]

It’s called “righteous anger” why me-and it’s true. Why would the “holy ghost” say “yeah sure, go ahead and crush your babies head and pull off its arms and legs” REGARDLESS of the situation!! We need to be graphic to convey the horror of abortion to those who think it’s ok (like when their priesthood leader and/or “holy ghost” gives the ok).

uhmn…

what in the world are you talking about here? Do I even want to know?

 

[sweetnay]

uhmn…

what in the world are you talking about here? Do I even want to know?

Dianiad, you yourself said that if your daughter was raped, and after praying about it and of course meeting w priesthood leaders,and praying, that if she couldn’t keep the baby, that the blood would be on the rapists hands. My question to you is-what kind of “holy ghost” would give you the ok to have your babies head crushed and torn limb from limb?
Seriously. I had this convo w my lds sis in law and she didn’t really answer–just “uh, well, I just have a lot of compassion for someone in that situation”. Right, because apparently we don’t. So much for inconsistent, illogical thinking. And right from you “prophets” mouth!

 

[RebeccaJ]

In a conversation I had with a mormon once, he said that aborting for the mother’s help was justified, the same as a just war. His “reasoning” was that the unborn was hostile, the very same as the person being fought in a war.

 

[LDSGuy]

In a conversation I had with a mormon once, he said that aborting for the mother’s help was justified, the same as a just war. His “reasoning” was that the unborn was hostile, the very same as the person being fought in a war.

HAHA that’s the stupidest (not you Rebecca) thing I’ve heard all day.

 

[RebeccaJ]

HAHA that’s the stupidest (not you Rebecca) thing I’ve heard all day.

He and his wife had aborted a child once, because her health was endangered. I think he took the Catholic view of abortion as a personal judgment.

 

[ParkerD]

I would really be interested to know if those writing in talking so knowingly about an absolute hard and fast rule of never, never abortion, have known the parent or child in the case of a “r” or an “i” situation, sad that the situation may have been, and have personal knowledge about how their emotional well-being has been during their lives? I am just curious. I also would wonder what the Kennedy position has been on this issue?

I also would wonder if studies are ever done within Latin America, where most abortions are illegal but there are millions of them occurring, as to the after-the-fact emotional well-being of those mothers what with most of that population being Catholic?

Thanks if someone happens to have personal knowledge in these areas and could write in about it. I would really be interested.

 

[Stephen168]

I also would wonder what the Kennedy position has been on this issue?

Why would it matter?

 

[dianaiad]

Dianiad, you yourself said that if your daughter was raped, and after praying about it and of course meeting w priesthood leaders,and praying, that if she couldn’t keep the baby, that the blood would be on the rapists hands. My question to you is-what kind of “holy ghost” would give you the ok to have your babies head crushed and torn limb from limb?

You are talking about what is known as ‘late term,’ or “partial birth” abortions. This is not acceptable to the church. Even those who might accept abortion in the early weeks do not approve of partial birth abortions. If my daughter could carry a rapist’s child long enough to require the dismemberment of the fetus to abort it, then she can carry it to term.

Seriously. I had this convo w my lds sis in law and she didn’t really answer–just “uh, well, I just have a lot of compassion for someone in that situation”. Right, because apparently we don’t. So much for inconsistent, illogical thinking. And right from you “prophets” mouth!

you don’t, if you are actually equating a partial birth abortion done in the last three months of pregnancy with a morning after pill, or an abortion done within the first week or so after a pregnancy resulting from rape is discovered. If a rape victim waits that long in order to have an abortion, it’s done for other reasons. I can’t think of any (other than the imminent and certain death of BOTH mother and baby) that would be sufficient.

For me, (and for the church) the requirements for an abortion are: very strict indeed; the life of the mother (not simply the health, but the LIFE) and, on an individual basis, the result of rape or incest…and in THOSE cases only after counseling and prayer about it.

the church does not, and it is incredibly dishonest of you to present our belief as if it does, approve of the sort of thing you are claiming. In the case of rape or incest the decision would be made almost immediately after the pregnancy were discovered. In the case of the life of the mother, if the child were big enough that a partial birth abortion would be required, then the child would be DELIVERED and all attempts to keep him or her alive would be made.

so for you to present as as wild eyed supporters of partial birth abortion and gleeful dismemberers of infants is not only incorrect, it is a particularly nasty bit of lying.

 

[ParkerD]

Why would it matter?

Have you written to them and accused them of the kind of ugliness you have accused Mormons of? Have you written to the Supreme Court justices, the senators, the presidents, the state judges, with as graphic language as has been used in the posts here, accusing them in as high and mighty finger-pointing language?

As far as I’m concerned, none of those writing such posts has any credibility whatsoever. I suppose that I am wasting my time to say so here, since they will keep on doing it. It is a tragic issue of our time, but it shouldn’t be reduced to crassness.

 

[Stephen168]

Have you written to them and accused them of the kind of ugliness you have accused Mormons of? Have you written to the Supreme Court justices, the senators, the presidents, the state judges, with as graphic language as has been used in the posts here, accusing them in as high and mighty finger-pointing language?

As far as I’m concerned, none of those writing such posts has any credibility whatsoever. I suppose that I am wasting my time to say so here, since they will keep on doing it. It is a tragic issue of our time, but it shouldn’t be reduced to crassness.

So you are saying the Mormon Church has the same moral standards as Kennedy?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Have you written to them and accused them of the kind of ugliness you have accused Mormons of? Have you written to the Supreme Court justices, the senators, the presidents, the state judges, with as graphic language as has been used in the posts here, accusing them in as high and mighty finger-pointing language?

As far as I’m concerned, none of those writing such posts has any credibility whatsoever. I suppose that I am wasting my time to say so here, since they will keep on doing it. It is a tragic issue of our time, but it shouldn’t be reduced to crassness.

ParkerD, I agree it was graphic. A lot of Catholics are very passionate about the subject of abortion. You should head on over to the morality forum, you’d see this there.

It is a touchy subject, and very personal. I personally believe the LDS church is off, on its stance for rape,incest and health. Very difficult circumstances, to be sure, which require passion.

The Catholic church teaches that morality is absolute. There are no exceptions to murder, which, is how we view abortion. LDS of course have a different view, considering your belief that a soul of an unborn can be recycled to another body. Catholics view the soul of the unborn the same as the soul of someone who has been born already. A creation of God, with equal rights to live as much as any other soul. To us, you would not kill a child that has been born already, in order to save another life. You would not kill a child for the circumstances of an adult crime that it was caught up in. We see no difference for the unborn.

Taking a “morning after pill” kills a human life the same as partial birth abortion or infancticide.

Certainly, there are many Catholics who choose to not follow this church teaching. This includes Catholic politicians. And yes, there are Catholics who have written very graphic letters, and those who stand outside of abortion clinics and picket and/or pray the rosary.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Have you written to them and accused them of the kind of ugliness you have accused Mormons of? Have you written to the Supreme Court justices, the senators, the presidents, the state judges, with as graphic language as has been used in the posts here, accusing them in as high and mighty finger-pointing language?

As far as I’m concerned, none of those writing such posts has any credibility whatsoever. I suppose that I am wasting my time to say so here, since they will keep on doing it. It is a tragic issue of our time, but it shouldn’t be reduced to crassness.

As a matter of fact I have let my feeling on the murder of the most innocent of life be know to the elected and selected members of our government. And I do not care how the pregnancy came to be there is never a justifiable reason to murder the unborn child, be it on the day of conception or anytime up till birth or after. It is a unacceptable solution to the problem. under any circumstances. As for those in Government that are members of the Church and have taken a position opposite that of the Church and God they will one day answer for that.

For the sake of argument just over 2% less than 2.5% of all pre birth murder of babies in the use are due to rape and or incest. So this argument for keeping it legal as it stands does not wash. And I still say you don’t kill the child in those cases.

We may not stop them by making them illegal but then we can place those doctor in trail for murder that do perform them.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I would really be interested to know if those writing in talking so knowingly about an absolute hard and fast rule of never, never abortion, have known the parent or child in the case of a “r” or an “i” situation, sad that the situation may have been, and have personal knowledge about how their emotional well-being has been during their lives? I am just curious. I also would wonder what the Kennedy position has been on this issue?

ParkerD, there are studies and numerous women who have had abortions who tell of their own experiences. It is not uncommon for an abortion to have lasting psychological effects. Regret and grief are not unusual.

I also would wonder if studies are ever done within Latin America, where most abortions are illegal but there are millions of them occurring, as to the after-the-fact emotional well-being of those mothers what with most of that population being Catholic?

To determine, what, exactly? If people have feelings over their decision, positive or negative? I am not sure what you are getting at here.

 

[FCEGM]

ParkerD, there are studies and numerous women who have had abortions who tell of their own experiences. It is not uncommon for an abortion to have lasting psychological effects. Regret and grief are not unusual.

Right, Rebecca. Project Rachel addresses this:

hopeafterabortion.com/hope.cfm?sel=A31Q

 

[FCEGM]

I would really be interested to know if those writing in talking so knowingly about an absolute hard and fast rule of never, never abortion, have known the parent or child in the case of a “r” or an “i” situation, sad that the situation may have been, and have personal knowledge about how their emotional well-being has been during their lives? I am just curious.

I knew a woman who was raped by a stranger; her devout Catholic Faith helped her choose life for her child who was adopted as a newborn by a loving family. In the case of a child born from a rape, a dear friend of mine is such a one. Her mother raised her herself. My friend - a devout Catholic, also - is now grandmother. Such instances demonstrate that the Faith truly lived allows one to accept the grace to choose the gift of life when circumstances are the most difficult.

 

[dianaiad]

So you are saying the Mormon Church has the same moral standards as Kennedy?

Well, no. I would hope very much that it does not. However, Kennedy IS Catholic.

 

[ParkerD]

I knew a woman who was raped by a stranger; her devout Catholic Faith helped her choose life for her child who was adopted as a newborn by a loving family. In the case of a child born from a rape, a dear friend of mine is such a one. Her mother raised her herself. My friend - a devout Catholic, also - is now grandmother. Such instances demonstrate that the Faith truly lived allows one to accept the grace to choose the gift of life when circumstances are the most difficult.

FCEGM,
Thank you for writing this post. That is a wonderful story to have shared, and I appreciate knowing of such an example of faith. I have had no personal examples in my life of anyone who had to make such a decision, so I really do appreciate hearing about a personal example. Thank you! I am very grateful for all of the work Catholics do to support the idea of adoption rather than abortion.

 

[dianaiad]

I knew a woman who was raped by a stranger; her devout Catholic Faith helped her choose life for her child who was adopted as a newborn by a loving family. In the case of a child born from a rape, a dear friend of mine is such a one. Her mother raised her herself. My friend - a devout Catholic, also - is now grandmother. Such instances demonstrate that the Faith truly lived allows one to accept the grace to choose the gift of life when circumstances are the most difficult.

You do realize, do you not, that the position of the LDS church in this matter is one of prayerful thought: rape is not an automatic reason for abortion, but a reason for humble prayer and study, and a judgment according to the individual case. So is that of the health/life of the mother a matter of calm, prayerful study.

Abortion IS the taking of a human life. We are quite aware of that. However, you present things a little bit ‘off…’ when y’all equate the taking of the life of a child in order to save that of the parent with abortion.

For one thing, it’s not like that. Here’s a situation that is more akin to the real issue: one that I actually read about. Two people were trapped in the rubble of a fallen building. One of them is actually holding up the beam that is allowing the other to breathe. The rescuers show up and discover that the only one that CAN be saved is the one holding the beam; the other cannot be saved at all. the one holding the beam will soon tire or die, and when that happens, the other will be crushed. The other cannot live either way; he cannot be reached, and cannot be freed. The only choice is to save the one and allow the other to die, or to lose both.

So the choice is made, and one life is spared. Is that person guilty of murder because he did not die with the other?

In the case of abortion because of imminent danger to the mother, that’s the situation; if the mother dies, so does the baby. If the pregnancy is not aborted, the mother will die. Either way, the baby will die. This happens rarely, but it does happen.

If it is far enough along in the pregnancy so that the baby has the slimmest chance of surviving outside of the womb, then of course all efforts should be made to save the child–but a child still in the womb of a dead mother is…also dead.

These choices, tragic as they are, are made often enough that it is a real issue. Abortion for frivolous issues is a grave sin. Abortion in an issue such as the above? A grave tragedy that will haunt everyone who has to deal with it, just as the death of any child would.