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ProVobis
Guest
He must know Latin very well in order to be adlibbing “under his breath.” The servers should be able to pick up on if he skips anything.
Ok, so, I have decided to attend mass next Sunday...need more advice
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jmcrae
Guest
He might also be speaking complete nonsense, if he doesn’t know Latin very well. There are people who think that the terms “abra-cadabra” and “hocus-pocus” come from people listening to priests who didn’t know enough Latin to say the Mass correctly.
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dominicandinah
Guest
And this young lady was probably homeschooled by a mother who is familiar with Classical education and Latin! (And I’m saying that in a good way…what an example for other practicing Catholics!)
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I_Believe
Guest
Right, it was suppressed. The exceptions made do not trump the fact.
The SP notes the TLM was never abrogated. The word suppressed wasn’t used, but if you reread it as I just did, you will see that in anticipation of continued suppression and possible reluctance by clergy, the matter is addressed.
The Novus Ordo Missae wasn’t presented as an option. And to ensure it’s acceptance, there was no other alternative. The TLM had to be suppressed. It couldn’t be abrogated.
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paperwight
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I_Believe
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paperwight
Guest
The pro multis debate is totally irrelevant in this thread.
What exactly is the huge difference between ‘and with thy spirit’ versus ‘and also with you’?
You say ‘can lead to ignorance of Doctrine’. What Doctrine?
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Lainey63
Guest
Well congratulations to everyone who is bickering in here. You just set a fine example of christian charity. If I was the one who made up my mind to go to mass and asked for some advice and came back & read this I would say forget it. What was I thinking? This young person came for some support and gentle guidance. Don’t exstinguish the fire that God has lit in this person’s soul. Whether you realize or not that is exactly what is being done. The only thing that is being accomplished right now is that you are adding confusion-let God do His work…In God’s time & God’s way. Whether one has more affection for the TLM or the NO is irrevelant…both are available to us and are in accordance with Rome. And if you do not recognize Pope Benedict as the Holy Father of the Catholic church, then quite simply you are not catholic.
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Aramis
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Reciting the creed is fine… if you believe what it says.
Follow the missalette instructions, including the instructions for visitors that are often on the inside cover.
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Ockham
Guest
Agreed.
Conflicted, what you are witnessing is the debate among Catholics regarding the two forms of the Mass. Given that you posted in the “Traditional” forum it is to be expected “traditional” Catholics suggest attending the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM). The post-Vatican II Mass, the Novus Ordo (NO) a.k.a. Pauline or Ordinary Form is a licit Mass but suseptible to liturgical abuse in the form of creativity (clown, cookie, gay, etc) themes. If done correctly, the NO Mass can be very reverent and many people prefer it. It would have been nice if those people realized you had posted in the “Traditional” forum and exercised restraint from instigating any TLM vs NO Mass debates. Pick which Mass you want to attend, go to it and let us know your impressions. May God Bless you.
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MIZER
Guest
excellent point!He was saying that neither of these is appropriate to send anyone to.
When I was Protestant, my friend who was trying to convert me was wanting to prove to me the superiority of the TLM over the OF, because I had been telling her about the music and reverence at my Protestant church, and contrasting it with the guitars and folk music at the OF Mass that I happened to be attending at the time.
So she took me to my very first TLM, and while we were there the priest’s cell phone went off in the middle of the words of the Consecration, and he answered it.
She was absolutely furious with him - I think she would have strangled him right then and there, if she could have.
I poured salt into her wound by mentioning that cell phones were not permitted in my Protestant church at all - they were to be left at home or in one’s car outside. I suggested in all wide-eyed innocence that perhaps they should implement such a rule at her TLM church.
What I learned from that experience was that abuses and lack of reverence are not “features” of the OF; they are “features” of the human race, and the TLM is not always quite the remedy that it is advertised to be. (Things were also not always rosy at my Protestant church either - one time, somebody got the bright idea to use non-standard foods for Holy Communion, which caused something of an uproar at Session - another time, the Communion cloth was not properly ironed, and people could see the creases in it from all the way at the back of the Church. That one took a few weeks to die down, too.)
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MIZER
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Thank you so much for posting this. What a great tool. I don’t know how many non-catholics have said to me, “other than the readings, I just don’t see the Mass in the Bible.” This is beautiful. I will use it. If you didn’t catch this go back and read post #15 and go to the link. All our catholic kids and non-catholic family members should have a copy of this.
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Cat
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Did I say this? No, you did. Please do not put words into my posts. Thank you.
An OF Mass is not a clown, rock, polka, teen, gay, feminist, illicit, etc. Mass.
And from what I understand, polka Masses are an ethnic tradition and are considered reverent and orthodox.
The Life Teen Mass held at our parish is completely reverent, orthodox, abuse-free, and done according to the rubrics.
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Freshman88
Guest
I would hesitate to call the polka mass an “ethnic tradition”, unless 40 some years qualifies for tradition and mid-western American-Polaks constitute an indepedenet ethnicity.
The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of Poles have never heard of a polka-mass.
It would be better to label this phenomenon under the heading of failed liturgical experiments by the spirit of vatican II.
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Ockham
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The four marks of the Church are: one, holy, catholic, apostolic. The pre-Vatican II Mass shared these marks, the post doesn’t.
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paperwight
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But the Church being ‘one’ doesn’t mean it has to be ‘all the same’ ;as has been pointed out many times, there are different rites under the umbrella of the Catholic Church.
Perhaps the analogy of marriage can be used. Husband and wife are one, but they are not identical. Their oneness comes from having a common purpose.
The different rites and forms of Mass have a common purpose of worshipping God. They do not need to be identical to achieve this.
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I_Believe
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See post #25
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I_Believe
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Correct
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Ockham
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Before Vatican II the Roman rite Mass was the same everywhere in the world, thus it shared the mark “one”.
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MIZER
Guest
AMEN and thank you. I didn’t have time to address this myself but when I read through thread this morning I was ashamed of my fellow Catholics for using it in this manner. In true Obama fashion, allow me to apologize to the OP on behalf of the Church and the members of this thread for the bickering. I know they are sorry so please forgive them for this display.
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