Ok to go to Greek Orthodox

[jasonjessica09]

I’m a traditional catholic, but I might move to a city that has not eastern catholic church nor a tridentine latin mass. I’ve beceom rather skeptical of the Novus Ordo Mass in the last 2 years. I’m 32 and spent the first 30 years of my life thinking the Novus Ordo was the only thing that existed.

Well now that I know what I know, I want to continue to celebrate the resurected Lord on Sunday in a reverent way. There is a greek orthodox church in this town. Would not discourage me from going here?

 

[mardukm]

I’m a traditional catholic, but I might move to a city that has not eastern catholic church nor a tridentine latin mass. I’ve beceom rather skeptical of the Novus Ordo Mass in the last 2 years. I’m 32 and spent the first 30 years of my life thinking the Novus Ordo was the only thing that existed.

Well now that I know what I know, I want to continue to celebrate the resurected Lord on Sunday in a reverent way. There is a greek orthodox church in this town. Would not discourage me from going here?

If you believe that the Novus Ordo has the Real Presence, you should not be going to any other Church outside your own.

I’m not going to get into issues of “obligation” which I’m sure others will bring up. I would rather appeal to your sense of humility before your bishop. Further, remember that true reverence is not measured by how well others are being reverent at Mass, but by how you conduct yourself at Mass.

As a Latin, also think about offering up your experience in attending a Mass that does not have the form you prefer for the sake of reparation.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[theistgal]

I’m a traditional catholic, but I might move to a city that has not eastern catholic church nor a tridentine latin mass. I’ve beceom rather skeptical of the Novus Ordo Mass in the last 2 years. I’m 32 and spent the first 30 years of my life thinking the Novus Ordo was the only thing that existed.

Well now that I know what I know, I want to continue to celebrate the resurected Lord on Sunday in a reverent way. There is a greek orthodox church in this town. Would not discourage me from going here?

Perhaps you could attend the Saturday evening Vigil Mass at the Roman Catholic church to fulfill your obligation, then go to the Orthodox church on Sunday (remember you may NOT receive communion there!).

Or you could attend the Orthodox Vespers Saturday evening and the RC Mass on Sunday.

Either way that will give you a bit of perspective.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Well now that I know what I know, I want to continue to celebrate the resurected Lord on Sunday in a reverent way.

It’s good to know what you know, but you should also know this and add it to what you know already: the ordinary form of the mass is reverent, appropriate, sacramental, and wonderful!

Also (and more directly answering your question) i believe it is required if you don’t have any other Catholic masses available in your area.

 

[ciero]

Perhaps you could attend the Saturday evening Vigil Mass at the Roman Catholic church to fulfill your obligation, then go to the Orthodox church on Sunday ***(remember you may NOT receive communion there!).

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Or you could attend the Orthodox Vespers Saturday evening and the RC Mass on Sunday.

Either way that will give you a bit of perspective.

Not always the case…I know of a number of Orthodox priests here in CA who give the sacraments to RCs. Greek, OCA and even ROCOR. So discuss this with the Orthodox priest…there is no problem from the Catholic side about receiving communion from the Orthodox.

 

[steve_b]

I’m a traditional catholic, but I might move to a city that has not eastern catholic church nor a tridentine latin mass. I’ve beceom rather skeptical of the Novus Ordo Mass in the last 2 years. I’m 32 and spent the first 30 years of my life thinking the Novus Ordo was the only thing that existed.

Well now that I know what I know, I want to continue to celebrate the resurected Lord on Sunday in a reverent way. There is a greek orthodox church in this town. Would not discourage me from going here?

I’ve said this many times on these forums. The Catholic Church has many rites. 98% of the CC is the Latin/Roman rite. The remaining rites make up the other 2%. All rites are fully Catholic, and equal in dignity, no rite is superior or inferior in dignity to the other.

You appear to be limiting your requirement for reverent worship to only Eastern Catholic liturgy, or tridentine liturgy. If only the Novus Ordo is available where you are, you’d go to the orthodox instead. That’s like saying 98% of the world’s Catholics who use the Novus Ordo, in your judgement, are inferior in dignity and reverence in celebrating the Lord’s life death and resurrection in the Eucharist on Sunday.

I hope that’s not what you meant to say.

 

[dcointin]

As an Orthodox Christian, and former Protestant, I have serious problems with the OF mass as I’ve witnessed it. I live in St. Louis, and have attended it at four different parishes. Each parish I chose because it was old, urban, and architecturally traditional, so these are not new suburban parishes. One was the cathedral, and it was done very well, one was also done well though not as elaborately, and two were done poorly. From the conversations with Catholics I’ve had, these are all significantly more traditional than most area parishes. I could see myself attending regularly at the first two, but not the second. It wasn’t that I saw anything crazy like liturgical dance, laymen preaching, etc., it’s overall feel was just very Protestant. The priest faces the people the entire service, the responsorial psalm is led by a layman in the lecturn, the hymns were modern and focused on the people, communion was distributed by lay eucharistic ministers, etc. These aren’t what most Catholics would call liturgical abuses, but for the Orthodox who are used to a service much closer to the EF mass, these are difficult to come to grips with. I’ve attended several EF services in a beautiful historic parish here, and if and if an Eastern Rite parish were unavailable, this is definitely the direction I would go.

 

[jasonjessica09]

I’ve said this many times on these forums. The Catholic Church has many rites. 98% of the CC is the Latin/Roman rite. The remaining rites make up the other 2%. All rites are fully Catholic, and equal in dignity, no rite is superior or inferior in dignity to the other.

You appear to be limiting your requirement for reverent worship to only Eastern Catholic liturgy, or tridentine liturgy. If only the Novus Ordo is available where you are, you’d go to the orthodox instead. That’s like saying 98% of the world’s Catholics who use the Novus Ordo, in your judgement, are inferior in dignity and reverence in celebrating the Lord’s life death and resurrection in the Eucharist on Sunday.

I hope that’s not what you meant to say.

Its not what I mean at all. The Eucharist is truely present with the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus equally as he is in the other rites, but in the the Liturgy of St John Chrystondom and the Extroridary Form you can sense a greater reverence for his presence.

The Greek Orthodox church also uses the Liturgy of St. John Chrystondom, just like the Eastern Catholics use. If it is the same liturgy and if the Catholic Church recognizes the sacraments in the Orthodox church including the Eucharist. Then what is wrong with going to an Orthodox Liturgy? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

 

[Corki]

Its not what I mean at all. The Eucharist is truely present with the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus equally as he is in the other rites, but in the the Liturgy of St John Chrystondom and the Extroridary Form you can sense a greater reverence for his presence.

The Greek Orthodox church also uses the Liturgy of St. John Chrystondom, just like the Eastern Catholics use. If it is the same liturgy and if the Catholic Church recognizes the sacraments in the Orthodox church including the Eucharist. Then what is wrong with going to an Orthodox Liturgy? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

There is nothing wrong with attending the Orthodox Liturgy as long as you still fulfill your Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass. The logistics are up to you.

 

[malphono]

Corki;8264705:

Then what is wrong with going to an Orthodox Liturgy?

There is nothing wrong with attending the Orthodox Liturgy as long as you still fulfill your Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass. The logistics are up to you.

Whether an Orthodox DL fulfills the “obligation” is, I think, an unsettled question. This issue has been discussed in numerous threads (the search function might be helpful in finding them), and what I will say is that there is no definitive answer. There are those who insist, based on the CIC, that it does not, but there are others who, based on the CIC, say that it does. The canons, as with most laws, can be read either “to the letter” or “to the spirit” of the law, but in this case, even in reading it “to the letter” I think it is still quite possible to interpret it in the positive.

Maybe it might help to consider here the SSPX: does Mass at an SSPX chapel “count” toward fulfillment of the “obligation” or does one still have to go to a “regular Catholic” church?

 

[Corki]

Whether an Orthodox DL fulfills the “obligation” is, I think, an unsettled question. This issue has been discussed in numerous threads (the search function might be helpful in finding them), and what I will say is that there is no definitive answer. There are those who insist, based on the CIC, that it does not, but there are others who, based on the CIC, say that it does. The canons, as with most laws, can be read either “to the letter” or “to the spirit” of the law, but in this case, even in reading it “to the letter” I think it is still quite possible to interpret it in the positive.

Maybe it might help to consider here the SSPX: does Mass at an SSPX chapel “count” toward fulfillment of the “obligation” or does one still have to go to a “regular Catholic” church?

You kind of messed up the quote.

Canons 1247 and 1248 seem pretty clear that the obligaiton is met when one attends a Catholic Mass.

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

The Orthodox are not Catholic so attending an Orthodox liturgy does not meet the requirements to attend a Catholic Mass.

The SSPX are still Catholic so technically the Mass would meet the obligation. The problem with those Masses is that the priests don’t have faculties to say Mass and are doing so disobediently. Attending such a Mass is participating in disobedience but not an issue of not meeting the Sunday obligaion.

 

[malphono]

You kind of messed up the quote.

That I did. Sometimes my old eyes play tricks on me, especially when cutting-and-pasting.

Canons 1247 and 1248 seem pretty clear that the obligaiton is met when one attends a Catholic Mass.

The Orthodox are not Catholic so attending an Orthodox liturgy does not meet the requirements to attend a Catholic Mass.

And those are exactly the canons I meant. My position that the matter is unresolved remains.

The SSPX are still Catholic so technically the Mass would meet the obligation. The problem with those Masses is that the priests don’t have faculties to say Mass and are doing so disobediently. Attending such a Mass is participating in disobedience but not an issue of not meeting the Sunday obligaion.

At this point, the status of the SSPX is still “irregular” which is little different than the status of the Orthodox vis-a-vis Rome. The question is rhetorical: if, according to Roman law, one can fulfill the “obligation” with the SSPX, why not with the Orthodox?

 

[Saint_Anonymous]

Maybe it might help to consider here the SSPX: does Mass at an SSPX chapel “count” toward fulfillment of the “obligation” or does one still have to go to a “regular Catholic” church?

I was under the impression if you could not find a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church in communion with Rome, then your attendance at a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church that is not in communion with Rome (provided it has valid holy orders) would fulfill your Sunday obligation.

[SIGN]Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holydays of obligation, the faithful are obliged to assist at Mass. They are also to abstain from such work or business that would inhibit the worship to be given to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s Day, or the due relaxation of mind and body.

Can. 1248 1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.

2 If it is impossible to assist at a eucharistic celebration, either because no sacred minister is available or for some other grave reason, the faithful are strongly recommended to take part in a liturgy of the Word, if there be such in the parish church or some other sacred place, which is celebrated in accordance with the provisions laid down by the diocesan Bishop; or to spend an appropriate time in prayer, whether personally or as a family or, as occasion presents, in a group of families. [/SIGN]

 

[Corki]

And those are exactly the canons I meant. My position that the matter is unresolved remains.

At this point, the status of the SSPX is still “irregular” which is little different than the status of the Orthodox vis-a-vis Rome. The question is rhetorical: if, according to Roman law, one can fulfill the “obligation” with the SSPX, why not with the Orthodox?

I don’t mean to be argumentative but what canons seem to point to the affirmative with regard to fulfilling Sunday obligation by attending an Orthodox liturgy?

The key word, as far as I can tell is “Catholic” (capital C). The SSPX are irregular but Catholic, the Orthodox are not Catholic. Thus the distinction. The Masses/Divine Liturgies are valid in both but the obligation for a lay person is to attend a Catholic Mass.

 

[malphono]

I was under the impression if you could not find a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church in communion with Rome, then your attendance at a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church that is not in communion with Rome (provided it has valid holy orders) would fulfill your Sunday obligation.

The standard interpretation of Canon 1248 #2 is that if there is not a “Catholic” church available (within what they usually call a “reasonable distance” – whatever that means), the “obligation” itself is abrogated. That’s fine and I don’t disagree with it in principle, but it really doesn’t relate to the question in the OP.

 

[malphono]

I was under the impression if you could not find a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church in communion with Rome, then your attendance at a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church that is not in communion with Rome (provided it has valid holy orders) would fulfill your Sunday obligation.

The standard interpretation of Canon 1248 #2 is that if there is not a “Catholic” church available (within what they usually call a “reasonable distance” – whatever that means), the “obligation” itself is abrogated. That’s fine and I don’t disagree with it in principle, but it really doesn’t seem to relate to the question in the OP.

 

[Corki]

I was under the impression if you could not find a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church in communion with Rome, then your attendance at a Mass or DL done by a Catholic Church that is not in communion with Rome (provided it has valid holy orders) would fulfill your Sunday obligation.

My understanding is that if you could not find a Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy to attend that you did not have an obligation. You could certainly attend an Orthodox liturgy but it would be as part of remembering the Lord’s Day, not as part of the obligation to attend Mass.

 

[malphono]

I don’t mean to be argumentative but what canons seem to point to the affirmative with regard to fulfilling Sunday obligation by attending an Orthodox liturgy?

The key word, as far as I can tell is “Catholic” (capital C). The SSPX are irregular but Catholic, the Orthodox are not Catholic. Thus the distinction. The Masses/Divine Liturgies are valid in both but the obligation for a lay person is to attend a Catholic Mass.

I don’t mean to engage in an argument either, and lest I begin to repeat myself, I’ll just letting the matter rest.

 

[Saint_Anonymous]

My understanding is that if you could not find a Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy to attend that you did not have an obligation. You could certainly attend an Orthodox liturgy but it would be as part of remembering the Lord’s Day, not as part of the obligation to attend Mass.

Gotcha! I found that Fr.Z holds the same stance and position. Looks like the reason for why the Church apporves the SSPX and not the Orthodox is because the Church has not yet deemed whether or not the SSPX are in schism.

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/05/quaeritur-are-orthodox-masses-valid/

 

[PennyinCanada]

Its not what I mean at all. The Eucharist is truely present with the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus equally as he is in the other rites, but in the the Liturgy of St John Chrystondom and the Extroridary Form you can sense a greater reverence for his presence.

The Greek Orthodox church also uses the Liturgy of St. John Chrystondom, just like the Eastern Catholics use. If it is the same liturgy and if the Catholic Church recognizes the sacraments in the Orthodox church including the Eucharist. Then what is wrong with going to an Orthodox Liturgy? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

I agree with you, especially myself being Eastern Rite. As far as I’m concerned, you are offering the infinite merit of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on the altar to God the Father for our sins and the sins of the world, in a prayerful and focused way. I don’t think someone should fault you for that.

I think if the shoe were on the other foot, if someone used to the NO had only an Eastern Rite DL to go to, they would feel like everything was very foreign, hard to get used to, and wouldn’t care to have to be there every Sunday.