On Day One of Synod 2015, conservatives strike first

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Here is the message of Our Lady of Akita, Church has approved it.

In our Lady’s message, she urged people to pray Rosary for the Pope, the bishops and priests.

The message well reflects what is currently going on.
youtube.com/watch?v=0OTxTIbUWfA

If we sincerely want to be holy, we will not argue what is mortal sin and what is not. People who truly want to be holy will conscientiously avoid anything displeases the Lord. They won’t ignore the Church’s teaching and the Catechism. They won’t argue that a mortal sin is not mortal. They won’t find excuse for the behavior of a murder, a rapist, or a person in adultery and call a mortal sin not mortal. It is true mercy to help those in mortal sin to repent so they won’t lose their eternity. It is true malice to sugar coat people’s mortal sin and let them get into eternal damnation.
 
PTL said:
Here is the message of Our Lady of Akita, Church has approved it.

In our Lady’s message, she urged people to pray Rosary for the Pope, the bishops and priests.

The message well reflects what is currently going on.
youtube.com/watch?v=0OTxTIbUWfA

If we sincerely want to be holy, we will not argue what is mortal sin and what is not. People who truly want to be holy will conscientiously avoid anything displeases the Lord. They won’t ignore the Church’s teaching and the Catechism. They won’t argue that a mortal sin is not mortal. They won’t find excuse for the behavior of a murder, a rapist, or a person in adultery and call a mortal sin not mortal. It is true mercy to help those in mortal sin to repent so they won’t lose their eternity. It is true malice to sugar coat people’s mortal sin and let them get into eternal damnation.
Click to expand...
Who here is trying to sugar coat mortal sin?
 
sarah_j said:
No doubt !
I haven’t seen the comments you cited by Cardinal Kasper. But if he is
questioning the notion of intrinsic evil, it should come as no surprise that
his comment has proven controversial.

Do you know where his remarks questioning intrinsic evil can be found?
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It was some months ago that I read the article and will try to find it. But realize I said only that I believed (from memory) that it was Cardinal Kasper that was was mentioned in the article, so maybe not. To be sure, I did not cite comments from Cardinal Kasper.

As I understood it, whoever mentioned it was making a theological point and it was not to say any particular act was not evil or sinful but only questioned the concept that such an act could be ‘intrinsically’ evil. I suppose it could concern how one defines the word, but I thought it was perhaps the difference between ‘intrinsically disordered’ and ‘intrinsically evil’. It is perhaps a suble point and does not negate the concept of sin in the world.
 
PTL said:
Here is the message of Our Lady of Akita, Church has approved it.

In our Lady’s message, she urged people to pray Rosary for the Pope, the bishops and priests.

The message well reflects what is currently going on.
youtube.com/watch?v=0OTxTIbUWfA

If we sincerely want to be holy, we will not argue what is mortal sin and what is not. People who truly want to be holy will conscientiously avoid anything displeases the Lord. They won’t ignore the Church’s teaching and the Catechism. They won’t argue that a mortal sin is not mortal. They won’t find excuse for the behavior of a murder, a rapist, or a person in adultery and call a mortal sin not mortal. It is true mercy to help those in mortal sin to repent so they won’t lose their eternity. It is true malice to sugar coat people’s mortal sin and let them get into eternal damnation.
Click to expand...
Just to note that Church has not approved the apparitions from the youtube link…

"On April 1990, the Apostolic Nuncio in Japan, Bishop William Aquin Carew in an interview with the Catholic magazine 30 DAYS, noted of Cardinal Ratzinger that: “His Eminence did not give any judgment on the reliability or credibility of the ‘messages of the Virgin’.”
 
ProVobis said:
IMO the better term is “rationalizing,” and it seems many Catholics are quite good at it. .
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Good at what? Rationalizing that mortal sin is being sugar coated so they can continue to dig in thier heals and not have to grow in age and wisdom and understanding of God and His Truths?
 
simple_soul said:
Good at what? Rationalizing that mortal sin is being sugar coated so they can continue to dig in thier heals and not have to grow in age and wisdom and understanding of God and His Truths?
Click to expand...
Good at splitting hairs over what is mortal sin and what is not.
Good at rationalizing that no one but the sinner himself can define sin in regards
to himself.
Muddying the waters so that no one is quite sure what the Catholic Church
teaches in regards to certain sins.

I’ve been a Catholic my whole life and even at times when my lifestyle was
far from what the Church would approve, I at least knew **where the Church
stood. ** The Church needs to be clear in its teachings as it always has been
in the past. Blurring the lines does no one’s immortal souls any good, although
it might make them feel good in the moment.

All this talk about doctrine vs pastoral practices and developing new understandings
of doctrine borders on heresy. IMO. There are some who seek the destruction of the Church.
What better way of destroying the Church than through an appeal for
“mercy for sinners”
as a rationale for weakening the truths that the CHurch has taught for centuries.
 
sarah_j said:
Good at splitting hairs over what is mortal sin and what is not.
Good at rationalizing that no one but the sinner himself can define sin in regards
to himself.
Muddying the waters so that no one is quite sure what the Catholic Church
teaches in regards to certain sins.

I’ve been a Catholic my whole life and even at times when my lifestyle was
far from what the Church would approve, I at least knew **where the Church
stood. ** The Church needs to be clear in its teachings as it always has been
in the past. Blurring the lines does no one’s immortal souls any good, although
it might make them feel good in the moment.

All this talk about doctrine vs pastoral practices and developing new understandings
of doctrine borders on heresy. IMO. There are some who seek the destruction of the Church.
What better way of destroying the Church than through an appeal for
“mercy for sinners”
as a rationale for weakening the truths that the CHurch has taught for centuries.
Click to expand...
"All this talk about doctrine vs pastoral practices and developing new understandings
of doctrine borders on heresy. IMO. There are some who seek the destruction of the Church. "

But it is Pope Francis who has asked that for this examination and it is a process of applying Church teaching to the situations that are present in the culture it lives in and ministers to, that is a normal and necessary part of the Living Church.

It is not destruction of the Church to seek emulate the mercy of God. In fact the parable of the Unmerciful servant {Matt18:21-25} is very clear about our need to have the gratitude for the mercy already shown us so that we can in return offer it to others.
 
LongingSoul said:
"All this talk about doctrine vs pastoral practices and developing new understandings
of doctrine borders on heresy. IMO. There are some who seek the destruction of the Church. "

But it is Pope Francis who has asked that for this examination and it is a process of applying Church teaching to the situations that are present in the culture it lives in and ministers to, that is a normal and necessary part of the Living Church.

It is not destruction of the Church to seek emulate the mercy of God. In fact the parable of the Unmerciful servant {Matt18:21-25} is very clear about our need to have the gratitude for the mercy already shown us so that we can in return offer it to others.
Click to expand...
Yes ,but in all fairness neither Communion nor Confession were on the table when the Pope asked.
He referred to being godparents ,readers and after admitting their mistake , were prepared to change it and could admitt to the child that they had made a mistake ,would do sth about it and would accompany him in his faith journey.
He said that corrupt people could be godparents because " they " were married in the church". And do not read here please that he does.not give importance to church .marriage. …
He is a son of the Church.
As far as Kasper he said one of the Chapters of his book was a jewel. Then came Burke s book.
Then panic buttons were pressed plus the usual stampede of opportunists who could not care less about the church and we know the rest of the story.
His interviews and homilies have been published.
 
LongingSoul said:
It is not destruction of the Church to seek emulate the mercy of God. In fact the parable of the Unmerciful servant {Matt18:21-25} is very clear about our need to have the gratitude for the mercy already shown us so that we can in return offer it to others.
Click to expand...
It would destroy the Church to offer mercy in place of the truth of God.
It’s the duty of the Church to encourage sinners to change their ways.
Code: 
I think this scripture verse is very apt as it applies to the discussion
of people who are divorced/remarried and for folks in gay relationships.
Jesus never said it would be easy to follow him.>

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Matt.10: 37-39
 
sarah_j said:
It would destroy the Church to offer mercy in place of the truth of God.
It’s the duty of the Church to encourage sinners to change their ways.
Code: 
I think this scripture verse is very apt as it applies to the discussion
of people who are divorced/remarried and for folks in gay relationships.
Jesus never said it would be easy to follow him.>

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Matt.10: 37-39
Click to expand...
Mercy can never replace the Truth because God, who is Truth, is Mercy.
 
sarah_j said:
Good at splitting hairs over what is mortal sin and what is not.
Click to expand...
As someone pointed out earlier, this is a difference between Heaven and Hell, not a hair. It is very important. The Church’s teaching on mortal sin and the elements involved are doctrinal issues and important in this discussion.
 
sarah_j said:
Good at splitting hairs over what is mortal sin and what is not.
Good at rationalizing that no one but the sinner himself can define sin in regards
to himself.
Muddying the waters so that no one is quite sure what the Catholic Church
teaches in regards to certain sins.

I’ve been a Catholic my whole life and even at times when my lifestyle was
far from what the Church would approve, I at least knew **where the Church
stood. ** The Church needs to be clear in its teachings as it always has been
in the past. Blurring the lines does no one’s immortal souls any good, although
it might make them feel good in the moment.

All this talk about doctrine vs pastoral practices and developing new understandings
of doctrine borders on heresy. IMO. There are some who seek the destruction of the Church.
What better way of destroying the Church than through an appeal for
“mercy for sinners”
as a rationale for weakening the truths that the CHurch has taught for centuries.
Click to expand...
Oh how the rationalization seems to keep going. I’ll give you credit for being honast enough to admite it is your opinion.
 
graciew said:
Yes ,but in all fairness neither Communion nor Confession were on the table when the Pope asked.
He referred to being godparents ,readers and after admitting their mistake , were prepared to change it and could admitt to the child that they had made a mistake ,would do sth about it and would accompany him in his faith journey.
He said that corrupt people could be godparents because " they " were married in the church". And do not read here please that he does.not give importance to church .marriage. …
He is a son of the Church.
As far as Kasper he said one of the Chapters of his book was a jewel. Then came Burke s book.
Then panic buttons were pressed plus the usual stampede of opportunists who could not care less about the church and we know the rest of the story.
Code: 
     His interviews and homilies have been published.
Click to expand...
But the plain reality is that Pope Francis specifically wanted the testimony of those who addressed the conundrum of divorced/remarried and permanent exclusion from the Eucharist. From the wishes of the Pope, it isn’t unrealistic to presume he wants to move forward from the current position to something that reflects Gods will more fully. It is not a desire to destroy the Church that motivates the people that are presenting their ideas.

There’s an intense belief among some that these man are trying to destroy the Church while*** I*** am trying to save it. No one person has the full scope of truth. We can only come to that by listening and being humble about our own limits. To call these peoples ideas as ‘bordering on heresy’ is a sign of a very negative force against truth in my opinion. I would question where that comes from.
 
LongingSoul said:
But the plain reality is that Pope Francis specifically wanted the testimony of those who addressed the conundrum of divorced/remarried and permanent exclusion from the Eucharist. From the wishes of the Pope, **it isn’t unrealistic to presume he wants to move forward from the current position to something that reflects Gods will more fully. ** It is not a desire to destroy the Church that motivates the people that are presenting their ideas.

There’s an intense belief among some that these man are trying to destroy the Church while*** I*** am trying to save it. No one person has the full scope of truth. We can only come to that by listening and being humble about our own limits. To call these peoples ideas as ‘bordering on heresy’ is a sign of a very negative force against truth in my opinion. I would question where that comes from.
Click to expand...
To the bolded – that sounds very much like accusing the Church of not doing God’s will with the current practice. :mad: A different approach might be presented by the Synod fathers as a new approach, not because there was something faulty with the traditional one.
 
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