ON TAPE: MINNEAPOLIS Priest Blasts Vatican Cardinal and Archbishop over Homosexuality During Homily

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ON TAPE: U.S. Priest Blasts Vatican Cardinal and Archbishop over Homosexuality During Homily

MINNEAPOLIS, November 26, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In the diocese of Saint Paul-Minneapolis, Fr. Leo Tibesar has been controversial for years when it comes to homosexuality and the Church’s teaching. Last year LifeSiteNews.com reported that the website of Dignity USA, the most prominent US lobby organization fighting Catholic teaching on human sexuality “from within” the Church, featured Fr. Tibesar as a member of the organization’s National Leadership Team.

Now an audio recording of a homily which Fr. Tibesar gave on Saturday October 27 which took aim at an Archbishop, a Vatican Cardinal, and a prominent Evangelical preacher has been posted online. The Archdiocesan spokesman had only recently heard of the incident and could not provide comment when contacted by LifeSiteNews.com

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“The smoke of Satan has found its way into the Church through the fissures.” – Pope Paul VI.
 
Now just watch as priests like these come out of the woodwork between now and when Archbishop John C. Nienstedt is officially installed as St. Paul-Minneapolis’s ordinary next year.

We may have a large scale rebellion on our hands, and I fully expect the Rainbow Sashers, Dignity, CPCSM and all their supporters to show up en mass at Nienstedt’s installation Mass next year, that is if they don’t succeed in pressuring Archbishop Harry Flynn from stepping down. I seem to recall a similar situation happening in Dallas a few years back, when Bishop Charles Grahmann refused to step down for his appointed Coadjutor, but I have heard that Flynn and Nienstedt are on better personal terms than what was the case in Dallas.
 
Actually there is great deal of validity to whats been said here.

Read on: speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=3942

St. Paul and Minneapolis has had, and is having serious problems when comes to following Catholic Church teaching on human sexuality. But don’t take my word for it, research this situation for yourself.
 
As it appears nobody else here seems to care about the rampant diversions from Church teaching on the part of many members of the clergy (and not just this Tibesar fellow) in the Twin Cities area, I won’t bother anyone with this subject in these forums any further.

Although I am firmly aware that no one here is up to becoming Archbishop, nor a chancery insider or Vatican official, it would of been nice to see some (name removed by moderator)ut or feedback. Or the very least offer up a prayer for the situation. Which I am doing now.

*Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. *
*Amen :signofcross: *
 
Catholic29 said:
As it appears nobody else here seems to care about the rampant diversions from Church teaching on the part of many members of the clergy (and not just this Tibesar fellow) in the Twin Cities area, I won’t bother anyone with this subject in these forums any further.
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I think many here do care whether they provide (name removed by moderator)ut or not. I submitted a note of displeasure with Fr. Leo on their parish website… for whatever good that’ll do.
 
Catholic29 said:
As it appears nobody else here seems to care about the rampant diversions from Church teaching on the part of many members of the clergy (and not just this Tibesar fellow) in the Twin Cities area, I won’t bother anyone with this subject in these forums any further.

Although I am firmly aware that no one here is up to becoming Archbishop, nor a chancery insider or Vatican official, it would of been nice to see some (name removed by moderator)ut or feedback. Or the very least offer up a prayer for the situation. Which I am doing now.

*Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. *
*Amen :signofcross: *
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Of course people care!!! Personally I get hyper crazed over these heretics. There is no doubt that my blood pressure is soaring after reading some of these threads. I think the problem I have at times is just what can one actually DO to counter attack. Of course we must pray. Jesus told us to pray without ceasing. I am not in that Diocese, but if I were, I would be be sitting in the Bishop’s Office and would not leave until having a word with him. I would be getting petitions going, and believe you me, I would be MOVING ON IT!!! I would also be organizing Public Rosaries to combat these heretics. After that we leave the rest up to The Lord. We must do what we can. We are the Soldiers of Christ. But after we’ve done all we can, we leave the rest to Him in prayer and confidence.

St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!!!
 
This is the same parish (and presumably priest) who wishes to “bless” homosexual couples in a ceremony similar to a wedding. This priest is in dire need of both discipline from his local Ordinary, and our prayers. I don’t know how someone can go through the formation process and allow himself to be ordained (promising fealty to his bishop and the pope) if he has these disagreements. If he cannot keep his vow of obidience he should probably turn in his collar.

I will be praying for him, his bishop and his congregation.
 
I think what this priest did was a good thing.
"The other were Rainbow parents of GLBT people at the Cathedral on Pentecost who stood off on the side and prayed, “Oh God be merciful to us for failing to attend our own Churches more often; they say they love God then turn their backs on us in hate directly contrary to 1 John 4 - whoever loves God must also love the neighbor.”
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This is the apparent crux of his homily. It speaks of compassion. In the average Catholic’s life, application of their faith is much broader than what is interpreted in Rome. Loving thy neighbor is taken seriously and not refused based on other’s opinions. Same-gender preference Catholic are Catholics too but in the end they are just regular members of the parish just like everyone else.
 
New Ulm,

The rainbow sash folks are not there to “humbly stand off and pray” They show up at high profile Masses to use the Mass to make a political and social statement against the Church and the teachings she has recieved from the Christ, her Lord. This is an act of pride, not humility. This is an insult to the Mass, the Church, and Christ Himself. And far from saying “have mercy on me, a sinner” they are insisting that the Church declare that their behavior is not sinful.

I also doubt that the Bishop and Cardinal in question pray with the pride and arrogance expressed by this priest. It is possible that they do, but Fr. Tibesar has no evidence that they do, other than that they do. His statements could be considered slander and libel, against someone to whom he has taken a VOW OF OBEDIENCE. It appears to me that Fr. Tibesar is pridefully suggesting that his wisdome and judgement of these issues supercedes that of the Church, including the Bishops that God has placed in authority over him. This is not far from what Luther, Calvin, and Henry did a few hundred years ago.

Fr. Tibesar needs to be sent on retreat to re-evaluate his heretical views and the people of this parish need to be given a good priest who is faithful to the teachings of the Church. Both Fr. Tibesar and his flock need our prayers. If after being given time for reflection and education, the priest remains persistent in his erronious views, his bishop needs to remove him from public ministry. I pray that this will not be necessary.
 
It’s almost like a replay from when Lucifer rebelled against God ansd was driven out of Heaven by St. Michael the Archangel.

Come to think of it; if the parishioners got together and prayed to St. Michael BEFORE the Mass there might be some notable transformations in that parish.
 
With apologies to TS Elliot, “Will no one rid us of these idiot priests.”

This only goes on because our weak kneed sisters aka your diocesan bishops let it go on. Excommunicate them I say, but I won’t hold my breath. As one who has one leg in the Pre Vatican II Church and the other in the Post Vatican II Church it has just been a continual down hill slide for the past 45 years or so.

Yes, I know, “Pray for our priests.” But just how much can the laity put up with? Please Bishops get some intestinal fortitude and rid Holy Mother Church of these Malcontents in a clerical collar.

AJ :mad:
 
brockmac said:
New Ulm,

The rainbow sash folks are not there to “humbly stand off and pray” They show up at high profile Masses to use the Mass to make a political and social statement against the Church and the teachings she has recieved from the Christ, her Lord. This is an act of pride, not humility. This is an insult to the Mass, the Church, and Christ Himself. And far from saying “have mercy on me, a sinner” they are insisting that the Church declare that their behavior is not sinful.

I also doubt that the Bishop and Cardinal in question pray with the pride and arrogance expressed by this priest. It is possible that they do, but Fr. Tibesar has no evidence that they do, other than that they do. His statements could be considered slander and libel, against someone to whom he has taken a VOW OF OBEDIENCE. It appears to me that Fr. Tibesar is pridefully suggesting that his wisdome and judgement of these issues supercedes that of the Church, including the Bishops that God has placed in authority over him. This is not far from what Luther, Calvin, and Henry did a few hundred years ago.

Fr. Tibesar needs to be sent on retreat to re-evaluate his heretical views and the people of this parish need to be given a good priest who is faithful to the teachings of the Church. Both Fr. Tibesar and his flock need our prayers. If after being given time for reflection and education, the priest remains persistent in his erronious views, his bishop needs to remove him from public ministry. I pray that this will not be necessary.
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As I view the Rainbow Shash movement, it is not so much a matter of pride as it is a cry for compassion to see them as people and no a lesser one which is brought about by much of the rethoric over this “issue”.

It is not viewed as “sinful” by many Catholics or clergy. It is not seen as a character defining matter, even by the Rainbow Shashers.

What does being “Obident” really mean in the Church? Is it totally turning your mind off? Is it obident to the Church hierarchy or to the Trinity through spiritual connections?

This priest is taking a bold stand against a growing tide of viewing others as lesser based on this sole matter. This is bringing up comparisons to lepers of Jesus’ day. Reaching to to those who are seen as lesser is showing obidence, but not always to a human authority but a higher, spiritual authority.
 
Ulm, that is rather an ad hominem against those who believe the Church teaches rightly isn’t it? The only “thinking” people just happen to agree with you while those who disagree “follow blindly.” But you never consider the possibility of their error, never consider that you follow liberalism blindly.

Whether or not some individuals think homosexualiy may be all right does not make it so. Obedience to the Church certainly does not mean defiance to it. Conscience must be properly formed to be correct.

For this priest to be right, the entire Church and the Bible must be in error. That is a rather ludicrous claim to say the least.
 
I cannot shake the feeling that we are being hoodwinked by all the preposterous twisting of Truth regarding deviational behaviour.

It is too detatched from the nature of man intended by God. I really don’t believe those that rail against the Church on this matter are serious.

That priest should be given a sabbatical for an undertermined length of time. This could be a test (time away) for coming to his senses; gain spiritual insight of his error; and possibly return as a priest totally in service to God and His Church.

He must not continue to go on in public with his obstinate challenge of the Faith and morals ans set by the Church. This is a form of schism.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
What does being “Obident” really mean in the Church? Is it totally turning your mind off? Is it obident to the Church hierarchy or to the Trinity through spiritual connections?

This priest is taking a bold stand against a growing tide of viewing others as lesser based on this sole matter. This is bringing up comparisons to lepers of Jesus’ day. Reaching to to those who are seen as lesser is showing obidence, but not always to a human authority but a higher, spiritual authority.
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Obedient according to my dictionary is “dutifully complying with the commands, orders, or instructions of one in authority.” I think that definition fits being obedient in the Church or anywhere else.

Jesus promised “all authority in heaven and earth” to his apostles and his Church. It is a false dichotomy to pretend one is being obedient to a “higher spiritual authority” while disobeying the Church.

Of course, many Christians do just that… they’re called Protestants.
 
If I were to go into a public forum and publicly insult and libel my boss, how long do you think I would remain in the employ of that boss? If I went around publishing articles and stories that suggested that the organization I work for was closed minded and buried in the 18th century, how long would they keep me around?

If Fr. Tibesar truely holds the views he expressed, then he is not in communion with the Catholic faith (He does not share the faith professed by the Church). As such he should not be speaking on behalf of the Church, which is the impression people receive when he speaks, by virtue of his title and office. In fact if he is this out of sync with the teachings of Holy Mother the Church, I’m not sure he should be celebrating the Mass.

Once again, pray for Fr. Tibesar and the flock that has been entrusted to him. Pray also for his bishop, that he (the Bishop) may be given the grace to effectively shepherd this priest back into full union of faith with the Catholic Church.
 
Your analogy is apt, Brock. I think that perhaps we should go even further and address it in terms of our fight to save the souls of this world. We are called the Church Militant for a reason. There is a war going on for souls. Tibesar seems to have become a traitor and is now working for the enemy’s purposes. His actions are a form of spiritual treason.
 
Lucifer challenged “obedience” and that led to the fall along with his minions. It was about PRIDE…and that is what I am seeing here.

ALL Pride is FALSE.
 
Originally Posted by NewUlm1976_2000
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As I view the Rainbow Shash movement, it is not so much a matter of pride as it is a cry for compassion to see them as people and no a lesser one which is brought about by much of the rethoric over this “issue”.
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It is not viewed as “sinful” by many Catholics or clergy.
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New Ulm,

I think there is a huge difference between compassion for sinners, and compassion that redefines sinful behavior as acceptable. For the Church to accept homosexual behavior as OK, it would probably have to first accept that the purpose of sexual relations can be something other than a unitive and procreative act within a committed man-woman marriage relationship. Once the procreative intent is removed, the door opens to reconsideration of contraception, fornication and masturbation as inherently OK. You can use your imagination to see where the Catholic marriage and the family would end up; look at the state of secular marriage and family.

It is not a question of a Vatican “dictatorial” stance, it is a question of what is the truth. We need to have compassion for sinners, but we cannot redefine the truth of what sin is.

-Tim
 
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