On the topic of gay marriage

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Rhuarc

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Now I know that this has probably been beaten like a dead horse but I still cannot for the life of me get this. Why does the Church want government sanctioned gay marriage illegal? The Sacrament of Marriage is a sacrament no? The Church is completely free to decide who can validly receive it or not. All gay marriage means for gays is certain bonuses that they can get from the government for example when you do your taxes. The Church does not have to allow gays to marry nor does it have to recognize it as a marriage.

For example the church does not recognize the holy orders of certain denominations. Well you don’t see the Church telling the government that such and such church shouldn’t ordain John Doe. As far as I am concerned all the Church needs to do is let all Catholics know once and for all that gay marriage is and never will be valid and that living a gay life style is sin and an abomination unto the Lord. What gays WHO AREN’T EVEN CATHOLIC do should be none of our concern.

I may have blew my top a little there but it makes no sense, gays aren’t telling the government to force the Church to recognize their marriage and they couldn’t even if they wanted to (1st Amendment). Gay marriage is of no threat to us. At the end of the day you can tell your brother that a sin is a sin and that the merits of which are death and hellfire, but you cannot force your brother to obey the rule of the Lord (otherwise where is the free will God gave us?).
 
I’ve just stopped caring one way or the other. Even in places where same-sex marriage is illegal they’re still performing marriages and holy unions in affirming Churches.

I say let them. Love is love. There will be weddings regardless of official recognition or not.

Now the good people of CAF will disagree with me but I stand my ground.

Bring on the critics! 👍
 
The Social Kingship of Jesus Christ.

Our Lord established His Church to save souls, and we the faithful are supposed to be “the salt of the earth.” One of the ways we do this is by enforcing the Social Kingship of Christ; that is combating abominations and corruptions where they are to be found. To do or think otherwise is Americanism; the heresy condemned by Leo XIII.

Think about it, why is the Church against abortion? As long as the faithful know that it’s a sin, and the government isn’t forcing the Church to accept it, why is it our problem? The reason is that it’s a great moral evil, one which (like sodomy) cries to Heaven for vengeance!
 
Rhuarc said:
I may have blew my top a little there but it makes no sense, gays aren’t telling the government to force the Church to recognize their marriage and they couldn’t even if they wanted to (1st Amendment). Gay marriage is of no threat to us.QUOTE]

I don’t think this is true. I think that the gay movements would absolutely love it if the government tried to force all churches to recognize their marriage and they absolutely could if they got enough people to agree with them. That’s what the whole argument is about. They want it to me illegal for anyone to not recognize them as the same as a married man and woman. Take the controversy over Catholic Charities adoption services as an example. They have been legally shut down in some states for the single reason that they will not acknowledge homosexual relationships as marriages. In Canada, the same movement proposes that Catholic schools should be forced to teach that gay marriage is acceptable and don’t think that isn’t going to be proposed here. As we can see from the health mandate battle going on, a good many people feel that the whims of their sex drives bulldoze right over freedom of religion.
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This does affect the Church.
Many Catholic adoption agencies, in places where gay marriage has been made legal, have been forced to choose between placing children in same-sex homes or shutting their doors.
Like it or not, the standard that the government chooses for marriage must be recognized by all.

Please also remember, although the Bill of Rights also makes it quite clear that the Church cannot be forced to provide contraception to its employees, the recent HHS mandate proves that the government is quite capable of ignoring the first amendment when it conflicts with one of its other values.

It is so important in matters like these to recognize that matters may be interconnected in ways we cannot see- until things go much, much farther than we anticipated.
 
Marriage is a sacrement. Set aside what the governments determine as a valid union between two persons in order to gain benefits of insurance, hospital visitations, etc. The fact of the matter is the Catholic church must stand in the word of the Lord.

Your missing the point of the church. It’s about the devaluing of the sacrement of marriage. If the governments can so easily dismiss such an important sacrament, where would they stop?

What you are battling against is the fatigue of an issue that has been fought for such a long time. Since governments rarely repeal a law, it only takes one “YES” vote and we gave it to them.

So if you’re thoughts are, just give it to them, then we’ve lost the battle. And their ideology will move onto the next topic to destroy God’s sovereignty.

DONT EVER GIVE UP! GOD Bless, and pray to Saint Michael, against the wickedness, and snares of the devil, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls

Don’t be next!
 
Why doesn’t the Church want abortion to be legalized? Because it cannot tolerate evil. Gay marriage is evil, and sodomy is a sin. The Church isn’t going to condone a situation in which 2 people live in a constant state of sin through “gay marriage”. And when people post on here, “Can’t I live with my boyfriend and be celibate with him and live in a platonic relationship?”. The answer is NO. That is an occasion of near sin.

The Church doesn’t believe in relativism and pluralism. It believes in Truth. The Church is right. It’s not “well whatever floats your boat/ whatever works for YOU”.

The Church holds the correct teaching for people with same sex attraction: bear your cross and serve the Lord. It is better to be obedient to God than to be your own master and abide in serving sin and selfishness. It’s better.

People with same sex attraction who follow the Church’s teachings have a superior lifestyle compared to those who want “gay marriage”. Serving Jesus Christ will set you free, whereas sin is a chain that will enslave you.

So… if the Church holds Truth, if it is correct, if faithful Catholics with SSA have a superior lifestyle to the “gay lifestyle”. Why would the Church allow gay marriage? Why would the Church allow any other view point if there’s is right?
 
mitex said:
I say let them. Love is love. :
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Just curious, but are these the teachings of the Episcopalian Church, or just your personal opinion?

No criticism’s, just asking for you to receive my prayers for you!
 
ssa_fellow said:
Why doesn’t the Church want abortion to be legalized? Because it cannot tolerate evil. Gay marriage is evil, and sodomy is a sin. The Church isn’t going to condone a situation in which 2 people live in a constant state of sin through “gay marriage”. And when people post on here, “Can’t I live with my boyfriend and be celibate with him and live in a platonic relationship?”. The answer is NO. That is an occasion of near sin.

The Church doesn’t believe in relativism and pluralism. It believes in Truth. The Church is right. It’s not “well whatever floats your boat/ whatever works for YOU”.

The Church holds the correct teaching for people with same sex attraction: bear your cross and serve the Lord. It is better to be obedient to God than to be your own master and abide in serving sin and selfishness. It’s better.

People with same sex attraction who follow the Church’s teachings have a superior lifestyle compared to those who want “gay marriage”. Serving Jesus Christ will set you free, whereas sin is a chain that will enslave you.

So… if the Church holds Truth, if it is correct, if faithful Catholics with SSA have a superior lifestyle to the “gay lifestyle”. Why would the Church allow gay marriage? Why would the Church allow any other view point if there’s is right?
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I know what relativism is but not pluralism. What is pluralism?
 
This is a message given to a Europe visionary by Jesus Christ, about same sex marriage.

thewarningsecondcoming.com/same-sex-marriage-a-grave-sin/

Same sex marriage a grave sin
Friday, March 16th, 2012 @ 10:20 pm

My dearly beloved daughter the pain and suffering of my poor followers who have to watch, helplessly, as new laws, contrary to My teachings, are reaching unprecedented levels in the world.

Not only do you have to witness sin children you then have to watch as sin is presented to you where you are forced to accept it as being humane.

I refer to one sin in particular, same sex marriage, which is presented as a natural right.

You are then expected to accept this abomination as it is set before My Father’s throne in a church.

It is not enough for these people to condone same sex marriage in the eyes of the law they then want to force God the Father to give them His blessing He could never do this because it is a grave sin in His eyes.

How dare these people think it is acceptable to parade this abominable act in My Father’s Churches?

Children I love every soul.

I love sinners.

I detest their sin but love the sinner.

Same sex sexual acts are not acceptable in My Father’s eyes.

Pray for these souls because I love them but cannot give them the graces they desire.

They must know, that no matter how much they try to condone same sex marriages, they are not entitled to participate in the holy sacrament of marriage.

A sacrament must come from God. The rules for receiving sacraments must stem from My Father’s teachings.

You cannot force My Father, God the most high, to give His blessing, or access to, His holy sacraments unless they are respected in the way they are meant to be.

Sin is now presented in the world as a good thing.

As I have said before the world is back to front.

Good is presented as evil and those people who try to live by the laws of God the Father are sneered at.

Evil, no matter how you dress it up, cannot be turned into an act of goodness in the eyes of My Father.

My Father will punish those who continue to flaunt their sins before Him.

Heed this warning for your sins, which are carried out when you refuse to obey God, will not and cannot be forgiven.

This is because you refuse to accept sin for what it is.

Your Saviour
Jesus Christ.
 
Ammo said:
Just curious, but are these the teachings of the Episcopalian Church, or just your personal opinion?

No criticism’s, just asking for you to receive my prayers for you!
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Yes the Church blesses same-sex unions and marriages. Its up to the priest of each parish but many do.

And its something Im quite proud of. And I assure you I am very happy and secure in my faith and beliefs. Your prayers are not needed because I dont need to change my beliefs or those of my Church’s 👍
 
Rhuarc said:
Now I know that this has probably been beaten like a dead horse but I still cannot for the life of me get this. Why does the Church want government sanctioned gay marriage illegal? The Sacrament of Marriage is a sacrament no? The Church is completely free to decide who can validly receive it or not. All gay marriage means for gays is certain bonuses that they can get from the government for example when you do your taxes. The Church does not have to allow gays to marry nor does it have to recognize it as a marriage.

For example the church does not recognize the holy orders of certain denominations. Well you don’t see the Church telling the government that such and such church shouldn’t ordain John Doe. As far as I am concerned all the Church needs to do is let all Catholics know once and for all that gay marriage is and never will be valid and that living a gay life style is sin and an abomination unto the Lord. What gays WHO AREN’T EVEN CATHOLIC do should be none of our concern.
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I have to respectfully disagree here. Since when does the church only care about it’s practicing members? The truth is that the duty of the church is to help ALL souls reach heaven (and that includes those who are not Catholic and even those who are actively engaged in a homosexual relationship). While it’s true that people have personal freedom to choose their lifestyle, wouldn’t you do everything you possibly could to save another human being if you saw that they were doing immense harm to themselves?

Governments have a right to dis-allow incestual, polygimas, and under-aged marriage because they cause great damage to society and the people involved. Catholicism recognizes same-sex unions as being intrinsically evil (and thus ALWAYS damaging to the people involved and society as a whole) so why shouldn’t the church lobby governments to group homosexual marriage in with those other 3 categories and dis-allow it?
 
MidnightSun12 said:
I have to respectfully disagree here. Since when does the church only care about it’s practicing members? The truth is that the duty of the church is to help ALL souls reach heaven (and that includes those who are not Catholic and even those who are actively engaged in a homosexual relationship). While it’s true that people have personal freedom to choose their lifestyle, wouldn’t you do everything you possibly could to save another human being if you saw that they were doing immense harm to themselves?

Governments have a right to dis-allow incestual, polygimas, and under-aged marriage because they cause great damage to society and the people involved. Catholicism recognizes same-sex unions as being intrinsically evil (and thus ALWAYS damaging to the people involved and society as a whole) so why shouldn’t the church lobby governments to group homosexual marriage in with those other 3 categories and dis-allow it?
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Same-sex marriages are already being performed regardless of whether their recognized or not 😛
 
Beaten like a dead horse is the constant use of the oximoron: "gay marriage’.

It’s a none starter for me.
 
mitex said:
I say let them. Love is love.

…

Now the good people of CAF will disagree with me but I stand my ground.

Bring on the critics! 👍
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Love is love. Really?

Love is wanting the good of other as other (Fr. Barron).

Homosexuals giving in to their tendencies and worse marrying are not doing good to themselves and the soceity at large since what they do is in opposition to the Author of Good and his venerable laws.
 
mitex said:
Yes the Church blesses same-sex unions and marriages. Its up to the priest of each parish but many do.

And its something Im quite proud of. And I assure you I am very happy and secure in my faith and beliefs. Your prayers are not needed because I dont need to change my beliefs or those of my Church’s 👍
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How does your church reconcile their teachings with the Word of the Lord?

(Romans 1)
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.

27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
 
Ammo said:
How does your church reconcile their teachings with the Word of the Lord?

(Romans 1)
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.

27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
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Because we use both modern science and relate to the teachings of Jesus. Most of the biblical warnings on homosexuality were about pederasty, prostitution, and orgies. Does the Bible speak against homosexual acts? Yes it does in regards to casual sex and promiscuity. This is one view in the Church however.

We use modern science to determine that homosexuality whatever the causes make it some kind of deviation from the norm (heterosexual). There are a variety of teachings in the Episcopal Church which make it diverse.

Some support use of therapy and “ex-gay” groups to make gays and lesbians straight or minimize their attractions (much like the Catholic Church). Some proclaim celibacy is the route. This is what our homosexual clergy are expected to adhere too.

And then others like myself take the view that the Bible had no concept of sexual orientation. Just behavior. There were no gays and lesbians in Biblical times because there was no concept of involuntary sexual impulses.

My personal belief is that most homosexual acts are sinful. The exception is a monogamous committed partnership between two homosexuals (which I admit is quite hard to find). I do think we judge to harshly on gays and lesbians and there is discrimination. And I am hesitant to call this “partnership” a marriage.

I tend to view marriage as exclusive to a man and a woman. Such couple can already contract for all their needs and rights.

So there’s no one teaching on sexuality in the Episcopal Church. Its really based on parish to parish. Those are my personal views. We value diversity and allow for a variety of views.

Please Catholics I don’t want a posting war over this.
 
mitex said:
Because we use both modern science and relate to the teachings of Jesus. Most of the biblical warnings on homosexuality were about pederasty, prostitution, and orgies. Does the Bible speak against homosexual acts? Yes it does in regards to casual sex and promiscuity. This is one view in the Church however.

We use modern science to determine that homosexuality whatever the causes make it some kind of deviation from the norm (heterosexual). There are a variety of teachings in the Episcopal Church which make it diverse.

Some support use of therapy and “ex-gay” groups to make gays and lesbians straight or minimize their attractions (much like the Catholic Church). Some proclaim celibacy is the route. This is what our homosexual clergy are expected to adhere too.

And then others like myself take the view that the Bible had no concept of sexual orientation. Just behavior. There were no gays and lesbians in Biblical times because there was no concept of involuntary sexual impulses.

My personal belief is that most homosexual acts are sinful. The exception is a monogamous committed partnership between two homosexuals (which I admit is quite hard to find). I do think we judge to harshly on gays and lesbians and there is discrimination. And I am hesitant to call this “partnership” a marriage.

I tend to view marriage as exclusive to a man and a woman. Such couple can already contract for all their needs and rights.

So there’s no one teaching on sexuality in the Episcopal Church. Its really based on parish to parish. Those are my personal views. We value diversity and allow for a variety of views.

Please Catholics I don’t want a posting war over this.
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You’ve been sold, and selling a lie. Not sure why you are in a Catholic Forum and not wanting a dispute over this topic. If you go back to your post, it’s full of “I” “we” “diverse” “my”, etc. that you exude the most fundamental problem related to the secular society. ME ME ME ME ME!

The Fullness of the Lord is the WORD of the Lord. Not yours!
 
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