Once Saved, Always Saved

[jericho777]

jericho777;7717665:

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered

.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Psalm 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.

3049 logízomai from logos (in the sense of an account or reckoning)

NASB Word Usage
consider (6), considered (2), counted (1), counting (1), credit (1), credited (9), credits (1), dwell (1), maintain (1), numbered (2), propose (1), reason (1), reckoned (2), regard (4), regarded (3), suppose (1), take into account (3), thinks (1).

Rom 4:10 How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Rom 4:23 Now it was not written that it was accounted to him for his sake alone,

Gal 3:16 Even as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness.”

James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness;” and he was called the friend of God.

That depends upon your point of view, I suppose. Catholics embrace Sacred Tradition, which is the Teaching of the Apostles. From the Apostolic point of view, “credited” means that the account has actually been posted with “credit” or a positive balance.

Calvin taught that this “credit” was not actual, but just “declared”. I don’t know of any banking institution that would pretend I had a credit balance for me when I did not. It seems quite ridiculous to me.

In God’s “accounting” system, the credit really exists.

This is a false conclusion based upon a false premise. God’s grace does not make us inhuman. It makes us what He created us to be, which is fully human, in His image and likeness. We become PARTAKERS of His grace, and are transformed by it into His character.

No, it is not. A great deal of twisting of scripture would have to be done to support your false premise and it’s false conclusion.

The verses you have written here are very good examples. The robes are washed. They are MADE white (God is not just pretending they are white). He IS our righteousness. Daily we are transformed from glory into glory.

I think a study of the meaning of baptism would help you, but that may be beyond the scope of this thread. The Apostles call baptism “the washing of regeneration” because we are born again from above by water and Spirit. The Divine Nature is planted within us, so that we are able to overcome the fallen human nature. In the East, sanctification is referred to as “Theosis” (becoming like God). Not that we become God, but that our nature is transformed into His image and likeness, as He created us to be.

So what you’re telling me is Apostolic Tradition is at odds with scripture? While credited to us does not mean it is of our own doing and is contingent upon the Father regarding the sacrifice of Christ as our righteousness. Both OT and NT confer the same thought our sins are covered by the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. We are positionally righteous not inherently so. Again I cannot speak to Calvin’s beliefs only what scripture reveals.

You are correct that “we become PARTAKERS of His grace, and are transformed by it into His character.” But we are still sinners who have been saved by His grace. It’s not our righteousness but His righteousness that that makes us whole. Again the picture in Rev 7:14 is of believers clothed with the righteousness of Christ standing before the throne. They are not standing there in their own holiness.

I didn’t have to do any twisting I have simply given you verses in context with the definition of what imputed means with its uses. You have yet to give any scriptural evidence for position.

Yes and the robes are covering the believers. They are wearing them so the Father can see Christ’s imputed righteousness. If you think you areas holy as you purport just try standing before God without your robe that has been washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Again our overcoming is the work of Christ alone. We always need His presence in our lives to accomplish His purpose. If we were transformed in the way you claim we could stand before God with no further need of Christ but that is not so.

 

[jericho777]

Not so! Are we not called to become holy as God is holy?
Peace, Carlan

You are correct and it is by Christ’s imputed righteousness and grace that we can.

 

[Carlan]

You are correct and it is by Christ’s imputed righteousness and grace that we can.

Can’t you say it Jericho, that if we sin after Baptism it is by the infusion of sanctifying grace given us by the Trinity then, that enables us with the power to repent and turn back to the Father for forgiveness. Peace, Carlan

 

[jericho777]

“And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that **I will pour out my Spirit **upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy” (Acts 2:17-18).

“And Stephen, **full of grace **and power, did great wonders and signs among the people” (Acts 6:8).

“And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and **they were all filled with the Holy Spirit **and spoke the word of God with boldness” (Acts 4:31).

“And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit **had been poured out **even on the Gentiles” (Acts 10:45).

“When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad; and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose; for he was a good man, **full of the Holy Spirit **and of faith” (Acts 11:23-24).

“And hope does not disappoint us, because **God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit **which has been given to us” (Romans 5:5).

“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but **be filled with the **Spirit” (Eph. 5:18).

“He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5-7)

Our sins are not just covered over. They are removed… The words used are “wipe out,” “blot out,” “take away,” “remove,” and “cleanse” (Ps. 51:2[50:3]; Is. 43:25; Mic. 7:18; John 1:29; Ps. 103 [102]:12). Scripture shows justification as a rebirth, as a generation of the supernatural life in a former sinner (John 3:5; Titus 3:5), as a thorough inner renewal (Eph. 4:23), and as a sanctification (1 Cor. 6:11). The soul itself becomes beautiful and holy. It is not just a pile of dung covered over.

These all wonderful verses but they are not about our righteousness. They are about the infilling of the Spirit in the believer. Our righteousness is imputed by Christ whereas the Spirit in fills the believer for use by God.

Yes our sins are removed and remembered no more by God because He sees Christ blood covering them. After our sins are forgiven we still need Christ’s imputed righteousness to be righteous. We can never stand before a Holy God in our own righteousness. Why is scripture so emphatic of Christ being the righteousness of the believer? We cannot be righteous apart from Him.

 

[guanophore]

So what you’re telling me is Apostolic Tradition is at odds with scripture?

Not a bit! I am telling you that your theology has been contaminated with heresies, which is why it is inconsistent with the Sacred Tradition.

Sacred Tradition produced the NT, that is why there is nothing in it that is contrary to the Catholic faith. All that is contrary here is your perception of what it says.

While credited to us does not mean it is of our own doing and is contingent upon the Father regarding the sacrifice of Christ as our righteousness.

Yes. This is Catholic.

What you are missing here is that God is not just doctoring the books, so to speak. When He credits, an actual deposit is made.

Both OT and NT confer the same thought our sins are covered by the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. We are positionally righteous not inherently so. Again I cannot speak to Calvin’s beliefs only what scripture reveals.

It appears this way to you because you are coming from a faith tradition that has been separated from the Apostolic Tradition for 500+ years. Yes, it is Christ’s righteousness, and it is not inherint, but it is infused.

You are correct that “we become PARTAKERS of His grace, and are transformed by it into His character.”

Then we are in agreement that we do not “become God”?

But we are still sinners who have been saved by His grace.

No. God justifies the ungodly. Once we are justified, we are substantially changed. We are no longer children of wrath (sinners) but we are tranformed into the Kingdom of Light. As the Scriptures say, we are not to go on sinning (continue in sin), nor identify ourselves as “sinners”. We have become saints - those persons set aside by grace to become holy. If you look at the NT letters, you will find that NONE of them are addressed to “sinners” but all, to SAINTS.

 It’s not our righteousness but His righteousness that that makes us whole. Again the picture in Rev 7:14 is of believers clothed with the righteousness of Christ standing before the throne. They are not standing there in their own holiness.

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

I didn’t have to do any twisting I have simply given you verses in context with the definition of what imputed means with its uses. You have yet to give any scriptural evidence for position.

The problem, Jer, is not with the scriptures, but with your perceptions and interpretations of them. Your conclusions place you in a position that is substantially different from what the Apostles believed and taught, creating “a different gospel” than the one we received from them.

Yes and the robes are covering the believers. They are wearing them so the Father can see Christ’s imputed righteousness. If you think you areas holy as you purport just try standing before God without your robe that has been washed in the blood of the Lamb.

The two are not contrary, jer, nor can they be separated. It is because we are washed in the blood of Christ that we are enabled to become the righteousness of God in Christ. When the prophet says “bear fruit that befits repentance”, he means that repentance puts us in a position where we are able to bear such fruit.

Again our overcoming is the work of Christ alone.

This statement is not reconcilable with Scripture, either.

We always need His presence in our lives to accomplish His purpose.

It is very catholic of you to say this!

If we were transformed in the way you claim we could stand before God with no further need of Christ but that is not so.

Is that right? What manner of transformation do you think I have “claimed”?

 

[jericho777]

Can’t you say it Jericho, that if we sin after Baptism it is by the infusion of sanctifying grace given us by the Trinity then, that enables us with the power to repent and turn back to the Father for forgiveness. Peace, Carlan

Why then does scripture use the word imputed not infused?

 

[guanophore]

You are correct and it is by Christ’s imputed righteousness and grace that we can.

Yes!

But imputation means that a credit has actually been MADE.

Phil 2:12-13
ork out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God is IN us to will and to do. He did not just give us a garment.

Rom 12:2
2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may discern what is the will of God — what is good and acceptable and perfect.

We are literally being transformed, from the inside out, by grace. We are not just “clothed” with a garmet that has “transformed” stamped on it, with no substance underneath.

2 Cor 3:18
18 And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.

We are not only clothed but BEING TRANSFORMED.

 

[guanophore]

These all wonderful verses but they are not about our righteousness. They are about the infilling of the Spirit in the believer. Our righteousness is imputed by Christ whereas the Spirit in fills the believer for use by God.

You are fighting a strawman, jer.

Catholics don’t claim to have any righteousness apart from God. If you are going to argue against the Apostolic Teaching, why not argue about what is actually taught, instead of vain imanginings?

Yes our sins are removed and remembered no more by God because He sees Christ blood covering them. After our sins are forgiven we still need Christ’s imputed righteousness to be righteous.

What does that mean to you “to be righteous”? Do you honestly believe it is possible for us to be saints, not sinners?

We can never stand before a Holy God in our own righteousness.

Jer, no one here is claiming that we do.

Why is scripture so emphatic of Christ being the righteousness of the believer? We cannot be righteous apart from Him.

Again, no one here is claiming we are.

We are saying that the righteousness of Christ is INFUSED into us, by grace, through faith. We are saying that grace imputed means an ACTUAL CREDIT has been made, not just a declaration that a credit exists when it actually does not.

 

[guanophore]

Why then does scripture use the word imputed not infused?

Imptuted means credited. It is a credit into our “account” by the merits of Christ. Credit means an actual deposit.

I recently got a grant for school. The proceeds were imputed to me. The tuition was paid, and the balance was deposited into my account. I am now in good standing, because cash was infused into my debt.

 

[jericho777]

Not a bit! I am telling you that your theology has been contaminated with heresies, which is why it is inconsistent with the Sacred Tradition.

Sacred Tradition produced the NT, that is why there is nothing in it that is contrary to the Catholic faith. All that is contrary here is your perception of what it says.

Yes. This is Catholic.

What you are missing here is that God is not just doctoring the books, so to speak. When He credits, an actual deposit is made.

It appears this way to you because you are coming from a faith tradition that has been separated from the Apostolic Tradition for 500+ years. Yes, it is Christ’s righteousness, and it is not inherint, but it is infused.

Then we are in agreement that we do not “become God”?

No. God justifies the ungodly. Once we are justified, we are substantially changed. We are no longer children of wrath (sinners) but we are tranformed into the Kingdom of Light. As the Scriptures say, we are not to go on sinning (continue in sin), nor identify ourselves as “sinners”. We have become saints - those persons set aside by grace to become holy. If you look at the NT letters, you will find that NONE of them are addressed to “sinners” but all, to SAINTS.

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

The problem, Jer, is not with the scriptures, but with your perceptions and interpretations of them. Your conclusions place you in a position that is substantially different from what the Apostles believed and taught, creating “a different gospel” than the one we received from them.

The two are not contrary, jer, nor can they be separated. It is because we are washed in the blood of Christ that we are enabled to become the righteousness of God in Christ. When the prophet says “bear fruit that befits repentance”, he means that repentance puts us in a position where we are able to bear such fruit.

This statement is not reconcilable with Scripture, either.

It is very catholic of you to say this!

Is that right? What manner of transformation do you think I have “claimed”?

My theology comes only from the word of God.

There is no doctoring of the books we are reconciled through Jesus’ sacrifice. God is counting us righteous based on Christ’s righteousness.

I grew up Catholic. My theology is from reading scripture through many times and not based on anyone else’s faith tradition. If there is anything I have in common with you or anyone else it is not intentional. I’m not beholden to any particular ideology.

Yes but our righteousness is still from Christ.

My perceptions and interpretations are based only on sacred scripture. I don’t see the Apostles or Paul teaching anything different than what I have gleaned from scripture. My problem comes from esoteric interpretations not found in scripture that are then purported to be equal to scripture.

The Father always has to look at what Christ has done for us He cannot just look at us and say we are righteous enough on our own to enter His presence.

As I understand you, your allegation that by infusion our souls are now made perfectly righteous. Whereas I contend they are counted as righteous. There is a big difference. Besides scripture defines it as imputation.

 

[guanophore]

My theology comes only from the word of God.

I am sure it seems that way, but the Bible can be interpreted in many and various ways. Two people can read the same passage and conclude opposite meanings. This is why Catholics read in the light of what the Apostles believed and taught, so we don’t get off on a tangent.

 There is no doctoring of the books we are reconciled through Jesus’ sacrifice. God is counting us righteous based on Christ’s righteousness.

Yes, and he counts (reckons) what actually exists, not a "declaration) with no substance.

I grew up Catholic.

Not really jer. You were baptized Catholic, but you were clearly never taught the Catholic faith. I was not either. Unfortunately, this is all too common.

My theology is from reading scripture through many times and not based on anyone else’s faith tradition.

I am sure it seems this way to you.

If there is anything I have in common with you or anyone else it is not intentional. I’m not beholden to any particular ideology.

Whether you have been able to retain some of the Apostolic Faith intentionally or not, I rejoice whenever I see it has happened. Some of your beliefs are Catholic, and for that, I am grateful.

Yes but our righteousness is still from Christ.

No one has said otherwise, jer.

 My perceptions and interpretations are based only on sacred scripture.

I am sure it seems that way.

But in fact, our perceptions are formed by our experiences and education (or lack of it). Everything that comes in through our senses is interpreted, and the brain automatically assigns meaning to the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 I don’t see the Apostles or Paul teaching anything different than what I have gleaned from scripture.

I can accept that you do not see where you have strayed away from the One Faith.

My problem comes from esoteric interpretations not found in scripture that are then purported to be equal to scripture.

They are not “esoteric”, jer, they are part of the once for all divine deposit of faith. They are the same Source that produced the Bible, so if you cannot trust them, then you cannot trust your Bible, either.

 The Father always has to look at what Christ has done for us He cannot just look at us and say we are righteous enough on our own to enter His presence.

No one is claiming otherwise, jer.

As I understand you, your allegation that by infusion our souls are now made perfectly righteous.

Yes.

Whereas I contend they are counted as righteous. There is a big difference. Besides scripture defines it as imputation.

The imputation, jer, is an actual credit. It is a deposit. Since the substance of is Divine Grace, then there can be no other result except perfect cleansing. This is what the Apostles taught we receive in baptism.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers — none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[fbl9]

God’s grace is always available for repentance.

This is true.

Thanks guan for your replies also.

 

[Third_Day]

=jericho777;7718619]I grew up Catholic. My theology is from reading scripture through many times and not based on anyone else’s faith tradition. If there is anything I have in common with you or anyone else it is not intentional. I’m not beholden to any particular ideology.

Jericho, as a non-Catholic how do you understand sanctification?
Is it a process?
Are we just “declared” to be sanctified or do we truly “become” sanctified?

 

[Link0126]

We are saying that the righteousness of Christ is INFUSED into us, by grace, through faith. We are saying that grace imputed means an ACTUAL CREDIT has been made, not just a declaration that a credit exists when it actually does not.

I was just thinking and writing about this today. I can understand how a Protestant would have trouble seeing this as us actual being changed, being sanctified. I never was “free from sin” as a protestant. I was never given the grace to be. Only since being in the Catholic Church and going to confession have I been transformed from the inside. Temptation is almost non-existent now. It really is amazing. I now understand why the Bible says we were “slaves to sin”. That’s exactly what it is like and the grace given to us by confession and the sacraments is how God chose to make us free. But of course that’s not available to you as a Protestant and so I now can understand why this idea is hard to grasp for some. They simply are not being changed from the inside out. I thank God that I discovered His transforming grace in the sacraments.

 

[jericho777]

I am sure it seems that way, but the Bible can be interpreted in many and various ways. Two people can read the same passage and conclude opposite meanings. This is why Catholics read in the light of what the Apostles believed and taught, so we don’t get off on a tangent.

Yes, and he counts (reckons) what actually exists, not a "declaration) with no substance.

Not really jer. You were baptized Catholic, but you were clearly never taught the Catholic faith. I was not either. Unfortunately, this is all too common.

I am sure it seems this way to you.

Whether you have been able to retain some of the Apostolic Faith intentionally or not, I rejoice whenever I see it has happened. Some of your beliefs are Catholic, and for that, I am grateful.

No one has said otherwise, jer.

I am sure it seems that way.

But in fact, our perceptions are formed by our experiences and education (or lack of it). Everything that comes in through our senses is interpreted, and the brain automatically assigns meaning to the (name removed by moderator)ut.

I can accept that you do not see where you have strayed away from the One Faith.

They are not “esoteric”, jer, they are part of the once for all divine deposit of faith. They are the same Source that produced the Bible, so if you cannot trust them, then you cannot trust your Bible, either.

No one is claiming otherwise, jer.

Yes.

The imputation, jer, is an actual credit. It is a deposit. Since the substance of is Divine Grace, then there can be no other result except perfect cleansing. This is what the Apostles taught we receive in baptism.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers — none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Good Morning Guanophore,
Our righteousness is credited to us from Christ and is not our own. That we agree on. I think where the disagreement arises is righteousness by infusion that actually makes us internally righteous where as imputation or crediting we are regarded or covered as righteous. Is that a fair assessment? The words used to define righteousness in scripture mean covered, reckoned, credited and imputed not infused. Why do you interpret them differently?

 

[jericho777]

Jericho, as a non-Catholic how do you understand sanctification?
Is it a process?
Are we just “declared” to be sanctified or do we truly “become” sanctified?

It is the work and pleasure of Christ to sanctify the believer. I think sanctification like righteousness is imputed to the believer. I do not think in righteousness or sanctification we can ever be before God unless it is imputed to us here’s why. If we are truly as perfected as you allude then we would be equal to God and our perfection though is never equal to that of God. In Rev 7:14 we are standing before the Father only covered in Christ’s righteousness. Do you think when the Father looks at us He sees our righteousness/sanctification or that of His Son?

John 17:19 (New King James Version)
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Ephesians 5:26 (New King James Version)
26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (New King James Version)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:12 (New King James Version)
12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

 

[Carlan]

Good Morning Guanophore,
Our righteousness is credited to us from Christ and is not our own. That we agree on. I think where the disagreement arises is righteousness by infusion that actually makes us internally righteous where as imputation or crediting we are regarded or covered as righteous. Is that a fair assessment? The words used to define righteousness in scripture mean covered, reckoned, credited and imputed not infused. Why do you interpret them differently?

So yes,Jeri Scripture tells us we are credited with righteousness,justification, but after accepting that, which Christ did for us, we must be Baptized by the Trinity formula. Baptism removes all sin, the Holy Spirit then Infuses the clean soul,free from sin, with sanctifying grace so as to give us the power to become holy as God is holy it is not given to make us as God. That is the way Catholics understand justification.(and it is a life long process it does not just happen one time and you are done with it). You by reformation teaching , something taught by Calvin I believe, can’t seem to grasp it.

 

[guanophore]

I think where the disagreement arises is righteousness by infusion that actually makes us internally righteous where as imputation or crediting we are regarded or covered as righteous. Is that a fair assessment?

Yes. The Apostles did not teach that we were assumed to receive credit when the credit did not already exist. When they wrote and talked about “reckoning” it was an actual credit balance, not just doctoring the books.

 The words used to define righteousness in scripture mean covered, reckoned, credited and imputed not infused. Why do you interpret them differently?

Catholics understand the Bible in the light of the Teachings we have received from the Apostles. Since they taught that grace is placed within us, we understand the Scriptures from this point of view.

Phil 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

How can we “work out” what is not in us?

We are in agreement that we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of ourselves. Therefore, whatever “salvation” is in us must have come from God, right?

How can God be “at work in us” if we are only “covered”?

Rom 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Do you think there is another way for Christ to dwell in us, besides grace?

Rom 8:11
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also ***through his Spirit that dwells in you. ***

So, where is the “covering”?

1 Cor 3:16

16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that** God’s Spirit dwells in you?**

Can you explain how this can happen apart from grace?

1 Thess 2:13-14

13 We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word but as what it really is, God’s word, which is also at work in you believers.

How can God’s Word be at work in the believer unless God infuses it there by grace?

 

[elvisman]

Again the picture in Rev 7:14 is of believers clothed with the righteousness of Christ standing before the throne. They are not standing there in their own holiness.

It is very catholic of you to say this!

Sort of. It i****s the holiness of Jesus which has now made THEM clean.

The idea of imputation only goes so far as to show that Christ’s sacrifice paid our debt. Other than that – if we are not made perfect by the INFUSION of his grace/righteousness – we cannot hope to get into heaven.

The multitude in Rev. 7:14 isn’t “covered” by the righteousness of Christ – they have been MADE righteous by his blood. They have washed their robes clean in Christ’s blood by their faithfulness. They weren’t simply given robes to cover their own.

Rom. 4** talks about Abraham’s faith being credited to him as righteousness. Christ had not yet come to complete his work of redemption. Abraham came *before *that –before the Law even – so Christ’s righteousness was imputed to him. As a matter of fact, even when he was uncircumcised. **

**On the other hand - we have been redeemed by the finished work of Christ. God’s grace is infused in us – it is poured out and imparted to us. It is not simply credited to our account and it doesn’t simply cover our filth. As I have pointed out several times already – nothing unclean can enter heaven – even if our account is covered. We must first be MADE righteous and clean by Christ’ sacrifice before entering heaven. **
**Jesus said: “*So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” ***
We are not perfect if we are simply covered.

I didn’t have to do any twisting I have simply given you verses in context with the definition of what imputed means with its uses. You have yet to give any scriptural evidence for position.

You want proof? The following verses prove that God’s grace is infused in us and NOT simply used as a blanket on us. You must remember that Scripture cannot contradict itself. It all must remain harmonious or it is all a lie. The following verses debunk the idea that Jesus’ righteousness is simply imputed to us. He MAKES us righteous:

"You are the fairest of the sons of men; grace is poured upon your lips; therefore God has blessed you for ever"** (Psalm 45:2). **

**"For the palace will be forsaken . . . until the Spirit is poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness becomes a fruitful field, and the fruitful field is deemed a forest" (Isaiah 32:14-15). **

**"And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17-18). **

**"And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness" (Acts 4:31). **

"And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people"** (Acts 6:8). **

"And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles"** (Acts 10:45). **

**"When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad; and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose; for he was a good man (Barnabas), full of the Holy Spirit and of faith" (Acts 11:23-24). **

**"And hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us" (Romans 5:5). **

**"And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18). **

"He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7)

 

[guanophore]

the holiness of Jesus which has now made THEM clean

   **The idea of imputation only goes so far as to show that Christ’s sacrifice paid our debt. Other than that – if we are not made perfect by the INFUSION** of his grace/righteousness – we cannot hope to get into heaven.

It goes “all the way”, elvis. The imputation of Jesus’ payment is completely efficacious, and makes us immediately and totally holy. That is the Teaching of the Church.

This is why persons who die immediately after baptism are understood to go directly to heaven. It is also the reason that many in the ancient days , Constantine among them, delayed baptism until they thought death was near.

– they have been MADE righteous by his blood. They have washed their robes clean in Christ’s blood by their faithfulness. They weren’t simply given robes to cover their own.

Excellent point!

Jesus said: “*So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” *

We are not perfect if we are simply covered.

It is a marvel that anyone who reads the Holy Scriptures could think we could fulfill the command to '“be perfect” without God’s grace inside us.

The following verses debunk the idea that Jesus’ righteousness is simply imputed to us. He MAKES us righteous:

I think we need to take back this word, elvis. We need to use it as the apostles did, where the “credit” is actual, and not just “declared”. It IS a simple imputation. It is a deposit into us of God’s grace by the merits of Christ. This is what makes us righteous. It begins in baptism.