Once Saved Always Saved

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ATeutonicKnight

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A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?
 
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? (James 2:20)

That one is my favorite but just about all of Matthew 7 is applicable.

*How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. (Matthew 7:14)

By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matthew 7:16-19)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)*

Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean will enter heaven.

But you could probably spend all day throwing verses at each other and never win. We have to understand what faith really is and how that faith helps us to get into heaven.

Faith is a belief. The fullness of faith is “Faithfullness” and faithfullness is an acing out of that belief in our daily lives. Faith is required for us to get into Heaven but God requires that we reach the fullness of faith (faithfullness) before he will let us in. The fullness of faith is our obedience.

…inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power… (1 Thessalonians 1:8-9)

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0105fea5.asp is a good article to argue from.

-Tim-
 
In today’s gospel (John 10:22-30) it said,

My sheep hear my voice;
I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all,
and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.

I can see this supporting both theories. 1) NO ONE can take believers away from God. This tends to support your friends point. However… 2) It says that the sheep (believers) follow Jesus. If we are following then we’re not doing whatever we want at all.

I am not sure what the Catholic church teaches on this point but I would be interested in hearing what other people have to say. It seems to me that our human language gets in the way of being able to explain faith v. actions. I can have a protestant agree with me one second that if we believe we will act a certain way and then disagree with me the next that our actions and the way we live are important. I feel like I understand it in my heart, but it’s hard to put into words.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?
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The real problem with this theory is how ridiculous it is: as though a person can get themselves “saved” at some Baptist church, then ten years later become an atheist, poison their wife for the insurance payout, never repent, and Jesus would still say, “Hey, great to see you! Aren’t you glad you ‘done got saved’ that one time?”
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?
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Scripture Catholic is usually a good resource. Here’s the page on Salvation.
 
My favorite for this is Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 
Thank you for all of your great answers. I think I have enough to prove my point. But I do realize it’s a waste of time. I’ve battled many protestants on Youtube and no matter how hard I hit the person they still didn’t care. Protestants are a thickheaded breed, unfortunately.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?
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In a way, he is correct, inasmuch as you cannot be un-baptized. However, you may certainly forfeit your salvation. Ask him that, if someone renounces God, belief and salvation, will God then violate their free will and force them into heaven against their will?

Here is one teaching of Christ from your friend’s very own KJV:

John 15:1-14 (King James Version)

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”

Now, if he claims that such a person who falls away was never saved (Calvinism), ask him just how one comes to declare his faith and be baptized in Jesus, without that soul being saved at that time.

And then there are these:

Matthew 10:22 (King James Version)

“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.”

Matthew 24:13 (King James Version)

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

Mark 13:13 (King James Version)

“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

What if someone does not endure unto the end? Were they somehow not saved in the first place? It seems that, as Fr. John Corapi maintains, “You are not saved until your butt is in heaven”.

And there is more than this. You have to ignore a lot of scripture to hold to OSAS.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
Thank you for all of your great answers. I think I have enough to prove my point. But I do realize it’s a waste of time. I’ve battled many protestants on Youtube and no matter how hard I hit the person they still didn’t care. Protestants are a thickheaded breed, unfortunately.
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Rest assured that you are not responsible for their acceptance of truth - only that you presented it to them. It is on them now.
 
po18guy said:
In a way, he is correct, inasmuch as you cannot be un-baptized. However, you may certainly forfeit your salvation. Ask him that, if someone renounces God, belief and salvation, will God then violate their free will and force them into heaven against their will?
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The “once saced crowd” I think misunderstands this concept a lot. Baptism washes away original sin, but not the ones that you commit afterwards, those you have to confess and ask for forgiveness for. Also you absolutly can turn your back on salvation. So I guess once you are baptized you are saved by your faith, but you have to actually live that faith to keep your salvation.
 
Very convenient doctrine. However just about every bible verse contradicts it, so I’d guess that a certain amount of bad faith is required to believe it. I wonder if that is what was meant by “doctrines of demons”? They chose to believe that lie not because of biblical evidence but because it tickled their ears.
 
Didn’t Paul himself say that he trained his body and will…lest after helping his brothers…he himself at the end found himself disqualified? Why would he do that if he was always saved?

I never believed that doctrine…even when I was a Protestant…
 
Romans 11:22 is a favorite.

‘See then the goodness and severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, provided thou abide in goodness, ** otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.**’

Paul is speaking to the saved here.
 
jbeck43 said:
Romans 11:22 is a favorite.

‘See then the goodness and severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, provided thou abide in goodness, ** otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.**’

Paul is speaking to the saved here.
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👍
 
I usually give a short answer to those who say that once in the palm of God’s hand, He will never let us go or fall.

"But we may choose to JUMP OUT of the palm of God’s hand by rejecting His teachings. God respects our free will and will not stop us.

Willing that all be saved and Forcing all to be saved are two totally different things.
 
The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.
 
Does not scripture say that a Rightous (sp) man sins 7 times a day?

As long as we walk the earth, we are IMperfect and so we sin. Jesus knew this very well, which is why He established the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Remember the question that St. Peter asked.

Jesus gave us a perfect formula to follow when we sin (knowing we would need it all too often—sadly) all we need to do is to follow it.👍

OSAS scares the bajeebers out of me:eek: and does NOT leave me with inner peace of soul like a good, humble and honest confession.👍

If you believe in OSAS, I hope for your sake you are right, cause once you go to meet Jesus in your judgement, it will be too late to change your mind and do things over.
 
Alix1912 said:
The “once saced crowd” I think misunderstands this concept a lot. Baptism washes away original sin, but not the ones that you commit afterwards, those you have to confess and ask for forgiveness for. Also you absolutly can turn your back on salvation. So I guess once you are baptized you are saved by your faith, but you have to actually live that faith to keep your salvation.
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👍👍
 
ConsciousCoward said:
The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.
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Tell that to Judas, who cured the sick and cast out demons in Jesus’ name (Mark 6:7:16) - yet fell away.

You might also want to check out what the Bible has to say about those who have a “full experiential knowledge” of Christ (Epignosei) - not simply a passing knowledge (Gnosis) and fall away from him by their OWN will:
Matt. 7:19-23, 24:13, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 9:27, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Rev. 3:5.
 
ConsciousCoward said:
The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.
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Nice theory…never worked for me as a Protestant…even though I SOOOO wanted it to be true… Of course the OSAS crowd would say then I was never saved to begin with…but I know my heart…I really WANTED it to be true…😦
 
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