Once Saved Always Saved?

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tqualey said:
Hi, Sig,

Yes, we are saved by Grace - but, not only by Grace! :eek: We have to cooperate with the Grace of God or we fail.

Here is an instructive link to show you why this is scripturaly based: catholic.com/magazine/articles/it%E2%80%99s-not-over-%E2%80%98til-it%E2%80%99s-over

God bless
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Friend, you are free to believe what you will, and I wish you well in your cooperation for your salvation. Remember, the command is for you to do everything perfectly (Mt 5:48). I hope that goes well for you. If you’ve been to confession recently, it’s not.
 
Hi, Sig,

So, I gather you have dismissed the material link I sent? I think it would have helped.

I, too, hope all goes well for you.

God bless
Sig said:
Friend, you are free to believe what you will, and I wish you well in your cooperation for your salvation. Remember, the command is for you to do everything perfectly (Mt 5:48). I hope that goes well for you.
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Sig said:
Because they’re written by Paul, and Peter says Paul’s writings are Scripture (2 Pet 3:16).
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And how do you know Peter’s writings are *theopneustos? * (Not to mention, just because someone says another’s writings are inspired, does that make it so?)

And what about Hebrews, in which we don’t know the authorship at all?

I predict that this verse is coming up:

All Scripture is inspired by God

but that’s simply begging the question.
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Sig,

It appears that your reading is hightly selective … and you apparently missed these parts:

Matt 10:38
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Mark 8:34
34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Luke 9:23
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

Faith is surely requried as the manner in which Grace is received - but, look what Christ says - you must do something. The 1st Century Jews were quite knowledgeable about what the ‘cross’ was - the horrid tool of Roman public humiliation and execution - and something that no one would wish for themselves. Yet, Christ makes this a requirement - and something that is done not only with regularity, but done daily!

God bless
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By grace you have been saved through faith, and not by works (Eph 2:8ff).

If you want to do something for salvation, and work for something that cannot be earned by works (Rom 4), go ahead.

And you’re disagreeing with Paul C. as well. Guess Catholics aren’t as unified as they claim. 🙂
 
Hi, PRmerger,

Great post! 👍

The real problem, at least as I see it, is not so much St. Paul saying that ‘works’ are as ‘filthy rags’ but, ‘works of the law’ - and by these (and he knew them all as a former Pharisee) the Jews thought they were earning salvation by them just doing them.

Here is a link you may enjoy reading: ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/JUSFAITH.htm

Who knows, maybe others who think Faith Alone, as Luther & Co cooked up, will read this and see there is more to this issue.

God bless
PRmerger said:
I think you see a contradiction where there is none.

We are not saved by our works. Alone.

Both PaulC and all orthodox Catholics will agree with that. But our works do save us. There is no denying that. It is in Scripture. (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24) It’s just not our works **alone **that save us.

Just like if someone says, “Are you saved by declaring with our mouths”? The Catholic answer is yes. But just not by declaring with our mouths alone.
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PRmerger said:
And how do you know Peter’s writings are *theopneustos? * (Not to mention, just because someone says another’s writings are inspired, does that make it so?)
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How did the early church know Peter’s writings were theopneustos?
 
Sig said:
By grace you have been saved through faith, and not by works (Eph 2:8ff).

If you want to do something for salvation, and work for something that cannot be earned by works (Rom 4), go ahead.

And you’re disagreeing with Paul C. as well. Guess Catholics aren’t as unified as they claim. 🙂
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I’ll give you another chance, since you are now carrying on a meaningful (if sarcastic) dialogue instead of parroting.

Why do you think that man is not capable of doing any good after justification?
 
Cat_Herder said:
Why do you think that man is not capable of doing any good after justification?
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You have a special knack of attributing sayings to me which I haven’t said.

Please provide the post # in which you think I said that…
 
Sig said:
You have a special knack of attributing sayings to me which I haven’t said.

Please provide the post # in which you think I said that…
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If that is not what you mean, then please explain what you mean by works being worthless.
 
Sig said:
How did the early church know Peter’s writings were theopneustos?
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Quit trying to turn it back on us and answer the danged questions. Or is all you can do to respond to us to repeat the very questions we ask back to us? Getting a little tired of it. :mad:
 
21 pages on “Once Saved Always Saved” and not one citation of John 10:27-29?

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

But whatever conclusion you come to in scripture, reality paints a picture that denies OSAS. I used to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now I don’t. And I’m not alone.
 
Sig said:
I suggest you study the contex of the passages you’ve cited, and pray for understanding.
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That’s always a good idea. 🙂

But what was it that the Ethiopian eunuch said? Something about needing to have someone help him interpret? Someone like an apostle? Is this your church’s paradigm as well? :hmmm:
 
Sig said:
Don’t you know the answer?
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The question was asked of you first. Therefore, it is your responsibility to answer it first. We are not so stupid as to fall for such a simplistic trick. Answer the question you were asked, or don’t YOU know the answer?
 
Hi, Starcrash,

Welcome to CAF. 🙂

Maybe you are hear to find a way to accept God’s Grace of Faith in His Son again.

God bless
Starcrash said:
21 pages on “Once Saved Always Saved” and not one citation of John 10:27-29?

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

But whatever conclusion you come to in scripture, reality paints a picture that denies OSAS. I used to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now I don’t. And I’m not alone.
Click to expand...
 
PRmerger said:
That’s always a good idea. 🙂

But what was it that the Ethiopian eunuch said? Something about needing to have someone help him interpret? Someone like an apostle? Is this your church’s paradigm as well? :hmmm:
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Do whatever you need to, but as a rule of thumb, it’s better not to post verses if you don’t know what, or why you’re posting them. 🙂
 
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