One brave women who said NO to Muhammed.

[Sister_Amy]

Oh wow…maybe your brother-in-law was onto something, Sister Amy!! Sam is a Christian in his beliefs, obviously, but since he lives in Saudi Arabia, he cannot convert and be baptized because not only are priests and churches banned there, but if Sam_777 was open about his abandoning Islam, he would probably be turned in and beheaded…this is Islam for you.

I bet you secretly are OK with Muslims killing Christians, Sister Amy…you just have to keep up the act of being a “moderate Muslim” here in the U.S.

You know, I really don’t care how you try to label me…

I’ve been called moderate, extremist, apologist, radical, wahhabi, salafi–I don’t call myself these things but some other people do (like yourself.)

They’re all pretty much useless designations if you ask me.

 

[RobHom]

SHOCKING Facts about WOMEN’ ABUSE in the ‘civilized’ West

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES

MURDER : :

Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends.

That’s approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.

sciforums.com/SHOCKING-Facts-about-WOMEN-ABUSE-in-the-civilized-West-t-16365.html

Interesting that you use the post of another person posting on another forum as “proof” of something…

You spend much time defending islam and criticizing the “west”, but how do you justify all the killing of women in muslim countries? The “honor killings”…and such. Why are women that are raped…innocent victims…killed by their families? How do you justify what the taliban did to women…?

How can you “justify” what muslim men do to women and children? That you quote lines from a book is meaningless. It is what is being done, not some lines in a book that counts.

Try looking at this site and see if you can even “stomach” what “muslims” are doing in the name of your god…
middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/

I know you will “deny” it…but that’s ok, you’ve never been much of one to embrace any truth that you did not utter…

 

[jen_fla]

** Cathopologist, Jesus is no god. He never said he was god.** He never told any one to pray to him or to worship him. He was rather himself praying to some one else and calling some one for help when on the cross.

God do not pray. Please understand.

planten if i recall correctly, you brought this up before and someone gave you NUMEROUS passages from the Holy Bible to refute you.

here they are again. please read them so you can educate yourself a bit more.

scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html

but since we know you hate to read anything that is too long or click on any links i shall just give you these:

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

---

and let that be the end of it. if you still don’t understand or disagree, then start a new thread as this one is about mohammed and women.

 

[ZAKI]

And she told him “I seek refuge with Allah from you”.
What a brave women she was , it seems she let her brain works and avoided Muhammed’s polygamy.

I think Muslims women nowadays should follow her steps and say no to their husbands:takethat: when they want to take another wives.

**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182: **
“We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, “Sit here,” and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu’man bin Sharahil, and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, “Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift.” She said, “Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?” The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, “I seek refuge with Allah from you.” He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family.”

صحيح البخاري
خرجنا مع النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏حتى انطلقنا إلى ‏ ‏حائط ‏ ‏يقال له الشوط حتى انتهينا إلى ‏ ‏حائطين ‏ ‏فجلسنا بينهما فقال النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏اجلسوا ها هنا ودخل وقد أتي ‏ ‏بالجونية ‏ ‏فأنزلت في بيت في نخل في بيت ‏ ‏أميمة بنت النعمان بن شراحيل ‏ ‏ومعها دايتها حاضنة لها فلما دخل عليها النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال هبي نفسك لي قالت وهل تهب الملكة نفسها للسوقة قال فأهوى بيده يضع يده عليها لتسكن فقالت أعوذ بالله منك فقال ‏ ‏قد عذت بمعاذ ثم خرج علينا فقال يا ‏ ‏أبا أسيد ‏ ‏اكسها ‏ ‏رازقيتين ‏ ‏وألحقها بأهلها ‏
​

(E) (A)

wow! Muhammed (pbuh) is so kiind!
wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

planten if i recall correctly, you brought this up before and someone gave you NUMEROUS passages from the Holy Bible to refute you.

here they are again. please read them so you can educate yourself a bit more.

scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html

but since we know you hate to read anything that is too long or click on any links i shall just give you these:

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

---

and let that be the end of it. if you still don’t understand or disagree, then start a new thread as this one is about mohammed and women.

^since when was matt and john-Jesus?
wasalam

 

[planten]

planten if i recall correctly, you brought this up before and someone gave you NUMEROUS passages from the Holy Bible to refute you.

here they are again. please read them so you can educate yourself a bit more.

scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html

but since we know you hate to read anything that is too long or click on any links i shall just give you these:

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

---

and let that be the end of it. if you still don’t understand or disagree, then start a new thread as this one is about mohammed and women.

Thanks for providing the brief material. I have read it. It is all right. But sometimes wrong meaning is taken. Jesus said “I am the light. I am the way.” He also said, “I am alpha and Omega”. He said, “I am the guide. I am the teacher.” We believe all these things that Jesus said. But we do not take wrong meanings.

But you are free to understand as you like. I am not ready to believe in any man-God. Then it would be easy to believe in the gods and godesses of the greeks and Roman pagans. Please do not mind what I have written.

We read the same thing but we understand. What you have posted above: Please see my remarks in blue.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

I believe Jesus is the teacher and the Lord. That does not make him god. To make some one God is very serious and needs much more than these words.

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

** It is true that in those days, only Jesus was the light and the way. No one else. But does it mean that he becomes a God?**

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

True. He came from heavens and he would go to heavens. That again is a good sentence but it does not make any one a God. You have so far not shown anything clear cut that Jesus may have said that he was God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

**Jesus said very well. But he did not say that he was God. He said the correct things but you please do not take wrong meanings of those words.

The making a god out of a simple man is not in any monotheistic religion. From Noah to Abraham to Moses to Muhammad, never there is any teaching of another god beside one God.

So it is upto the church to have their faith as they like best.
**.

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks for providing the brief material. I have read it. It is all right. But sometimes wrong meaning is taken. Jesus said “I am the light. I am the way.” He also said, “I am alpha and Omega”. He said, “I am the guide. I am the teacher.” We believe all these things that Jesus said. But we do not take wrong meanings.

What exactly does it mean to you to believe in what Jesus says in those verses? You have shown that you certainly don’t believe in the orthodox Christian understanding of them, and since they are in the Christian book, this makes me wonder why you say you believe in them. I am a Christian. I know what it means to believe in the Bible. I don’t take your assertion that you believe in Jesus’ words as they are written in the Bible lightly.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

I believe Jesus is the teacher and the Lord. That does not make him god. To make some one God is very serious and needs much more than these words.

“Lord” with a capital L in the Bible refers to GOD, so by the rest of your post, you cannot say you believe that Jesus is Lord.

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

** It is true that in those days, only Jesus was the light and the way. No one else. But does it mean that he becomes a God?**

No, it means God became man, not the other way around.

John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

True. He came from heavens and he would go to heavens. That again is a good sentence but it does not make any one a God. You have so far not shown anything clear cut that Jesus may have said that he was God.

Please name me some other people who came from heaven. Regular people, as you claim Jesus is.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

**Jesus said very well. But he did not say that he was God. He said the correct things but you please do not take wrong meanings of those words.

The making a god out of a simple man is not in any monotheistic religion. From Noah to Abraham to Moses to Muhammad, never there is any teaching of another god beside one God.

So it is upto the church to have their faith as they like best.
**.

What does being with His people until the end of the world mean, then? What does it mean if he is just a man? How can you say he “said very well” (I am assuming this means that you do not disagree with him) if the implications of what He has said are GODLY implications?

I can see that you have trouble because Jesus did not, as far as the Bible records, say the words “I am God”. To the Christian, this is absolutely not a problem, as it makes perfect sense given the nature of His earthly ministry and His place relative to the Father, but I can see why a Muslim would have a problem with this. Your book spells things much more explicitly, because its orator and audience is very different than the Jews of first century Palestine. I don’t have any problem with you believing in your Qur’an for your entire life if that is your true conviction, but I have a hard time accepting your claims that you believe Jesus’ words when you write in such generic, broad terms and exibit absolutely no understanding of the context or meaning of the verses you claim to believe in.

If I said that I believe in the Qur’an but do not believe in Muhammad’s prophethood, wouldn’t you see a problem with that?

 

[Angelos]

What exactly does it mean to you to believe in what Jesus says in those verses? You have shown that you certainly don’t believe in the orthodox Christian understanding of them, and since they are in the Christian book, this makes me wonder why you say you believe in them. I am a Christian. I know what it means to believe in the Bible. I don’t take your assertion that you believe in Jesus’ words as they are written in the Bible lightly.

Dear dzheremi,

Thanks for this beautiful reply. I was going to post a similar response to rebut planten’s presumptions and highlight his aim to pervert the Gospel through misinterpretation of certain verses.

Planten always ignores that the Gospel of John contains all those verses (quoted above) in order to single Jesus out and refute the claim that Jesus uttered those sentences since He was similar to the other prophets.

Actually, John emphasises Jesus’ divinity and unique mission even in the prologue to His Gospel:

John 1:16-18
And of his fulness we all have received: and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses: grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Muslims like Planten deliberately ignore the Gospels.

 

[dzheremi]

Indeed you are correct, Angelos.

My gut tells me that I am once again casting pearls before swine by inviting Planten to expound upon his strange, Bible-conflicting doctrine, but there’s no other way than to ask him directly those questions that he dances around with his ambiguous statements that what Jesus has said is “a good sentence”, or even those that seem direct like how he apparently believes that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Either Planten needs to brush up on his Greek, or he is operating by vastly different understandings of the scripture than the rest of us. This would make sense, since he isn’t a Christian to begin with, but it also carries about as much weight as me saying that I believe in Muhammad but find the Qur’an to be garbage (or vice-versa). It would lack any real meaning for me or the believer who takes the claims of his religion very seriously.

As in the thread I started a while ago on the Muslim definition(s) of love, I doubt I’ll get a straight answer. That’s okay. Pressing on anyway…

Planten, what do these things you’ve written about Jesus and His words as recorded in the Bible actually mean? Please don’t tell me “Jesus was a good prophet” or “I believe that Jesus said good things, but wasn’t God.” We’ve all heard these a million times. We know that you don’t agree with our faith. Instead I would like you to tell us your understanding of the words and phrases on the page (e.g., John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I AM”), not of the LORD, who spoke them.

 

[dolphinlove]

**Cathopologist, that was spoken more like Jesus. That was in Makkah where the Muslims were being beaten and persecuted. The prophet was preaching the One-ness of God. The Pagans did not like it. They came and offered him a mountain of Gold. He said he did not need any gold.

Then the pagans offered him the kingship of the country. He said that he did not like to be any king.**

He must have been promised something better, making a deal with the devil can give you many things, but you pay in the afterlife.

Then they offered him a very beautiful (most beautiful ) woman. He said he did not need any woman.

Nobody can be compared to Jesus, noone should even think about comparing themselves to Jesus, he is the son of God, noone comes near him, especially what he did for us!

 

[inJESUS]

“Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift.”

 

[cathopologist]

or is it ok only for Muhammad to touch a woman who is not his wife?

I guess so. Muslim men beat the kahoona out of their wives if they become friendly with their next door male neighbour. But it would be different if their male neighbour was Mohammad (sic).

You know, whatever belongs to you are belong to me.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I guess so. Muslim men beat the kahoona out of their wives if they become friendly with their next door male neighbour. But it would be different if their male neighbour was Mohammad (sic).

You know, whatever belongs to you are belong to me.

I’m pretty sure any at least half-way normal decent human being, and the vast majority of ALL Muslim men, wouldn’t EVER “beat the kahoona out of their wives” for ANY reason at all. And in fact that’s such a gross and disgusting overgeneralization… seriously, who gave you the right to stereotype muslim men that way? Most of the Muslim men I know wouldn’t hurt a bug let alone their wives!

Muhammad never even shook the hands of women who were not related to him. The hadith which was quoted really confused me, for a reason inJESUS brought up. It really actually sounds like the “woman” he is speaking to is just a girl, under the age of puberty, and not a grown woman. I’m not even sure that his request was sincere or not a joke or something. There are just too many questions about it for me to draw any conclusions.

At the very least, we know that Muhammad certainly never forced anyone to marry him.

 

[planten]

this parathethis doesn’t exist in Arabic.

 

[planten]

I guess so. Muslim men beat the kahoona out of their wives if they become friendly with their next door male neighbour. But it would be different if their male neighbour was Mohammad (sic).

You know, whatever belongs to you are belong to me.

Cathopologist, you are spreading lies and bad ideas which are coming out of your bad brain. You are speculating, inventing things. Please look towards your own Jesus who did many bad things.

 

[Psalter]

Muhammad never even shook the hands of women who were not related to him. The hadith which was quoted really confused me, for a reason inJESUS brought up. It really actually sounds like the “woman” he is speaking to is just a girl, under the age of puberty, and not a grown woman. I’m not even sure that his request was sincere or not a joke or something. There are just too many questions about it for me to draw any conclusions.

It wouldn’t be the first time Mohammed married a girl under age of puberty, would it Sister Amy?

At the very least, we know that Muhammad certainly never forced anyone to marry him.

In civilized countries, an elderly man marrying a 6 year old is illegal…and having sex with a 9 year old is rape. A nine year old does not have the mental capacity to make such a decision…

 

[Psalter]

I’m pretty sure any at least half-way normal decent human being, and the vast majority of ALL Muslim men, wouldn’t EVER “beat the kahoona out of their wives” for ANY reason at all. And in fact that’s such a gross and disgusting overgeneralization… seriously, who gave you the right to stereotype muslim men that way? Most of the Muslim men I know wouldn’t hurt a bug let alone their wives!

Who gave you the right to stereotype Muslim men that way, Sister Amy? How do you know the “VAST majority” don’t beat their wives? A majority don’t, maybe…but I doubt that a vast majority don’t. And if they wanted to, they have authorization from the Qur’an which explicitly recommends wife-beating.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It wouldn’t be the first time Mohammed married a girl under age of puberty, would it Sister Amy?

First time? As if there is a second time? Aisha was the only wife of Muhammad who had not been married prior to marrying Muhammad, actually. About this other woman or girl, I really don’t know anything about her either way, the hadith certainly doesn’t trouble me in the least.

In civilized countries, an elderly man marrying a 6 year old is illegal…and having sex with a 9 year old is rape. A nine year old does not have the mental capacity to make such a decision…

What about a 10 year old? 12 year old? 13 year old? 14, 15, 16, 17, 18? Just curious what age YOU think is old enough, and why?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Who gave you the right to stereotype Muslim men that way, Sister Amy? How do you know the “VAST majority” don’t beat their wives? A majority don’t, maybe…but I doubt that a vast majority don’t. And if they wanted to, they have authorization from the Qur’an which explicitly recommends wife-beating.

Why? Do you, as a man, feel frequent inclinations to beat your wife? Do you find it common for men to beat their wives?

(The Qur’an doesn’t recommend explicitly or otherwise wife-BEATING. As you know, you’re severely twisting the meaning.)

 

[swariffin]

Please look towards your own Jesus who did many bad things.

I did Planten. Believe me. I am not a kind of person who would like to take things for granted. I did my research to see things before I believe. I did not find any bad things Jesus did in the bible, not a single thing. Perhaps you can show me where both in the bible and Quran.